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Ludo*1

When Will Bigotry Be Addressed In Scottish Football?

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5 minutes ago, The OP said:

It is an amazing coincidence that the sectarian razor gang known as the Billy Boys were also known as the Brigton Derry and there is a lyric "We are the Brigton Derry Boys" in the current Rangers version and Dundee have their own Derry Boys version which sprung up independently. 

I am not saying there would not have been an IRA songfest that night. I'm saying 'Orange b*****ds' was specifically sung as a reaction to something. It seems to be a thing which caught on when the Green Brigade chanted it at Bobby Madden when he was giving a traditional Bobby Madden performance v Aberdeen, then everyone chanted it (or Zombie) at Steven Naismith on Sunday when he went down injured. It's a thing unfortunately but it usually happens when something else happens. 

So, just to confirm, the sectarian chanting of celtic fans was justified because Dundee fans were singing something which wasn't sectarian? Also that the celtic fans were likely to engage in an "IRA songfest" regardless? 

Glad that's cleared up.

Spoiler

BruisedHatefulLadybug-small.gif

 

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Sectarianism will never end at football.

The most mild mannered person will shout absolute abuse for 90 minutes then go back to normal.

I grew up in Northern Ireland in various county's and by and large no one was interested in if you were a Catholic or Protestant but the media and the few remaining bigots loved division and speaking about it. Speaking about it makes it relevant.

It is not a huge problem in the sense that everyone is doing it but rather the culture within the "usual suspects" club's.

Would those club's have the vast amount of supporters they have? Of course not. It's in their tiny minds and they band together to all be "the victims" and that the other side will always be worse.

It is like fighting terrorism. It is fundamentally a battle that can never be won. Someone will always be the victim and need to fight back.

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4 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

So, just to confirm, the sectarian chanting of celtic fans was justified because Dundee fans were singing something which wasn't sectarian? Also that the celtic fans were likely to engage in an "IRA songfest" regardless? 

Glad that's cleared up.

 

When I said it was an amazing coincidence I actually didn't think that it was.

But yes, the supporters would have sung about the IRA regardless. That is correct. They would not have chanted 'Orange b*****ds' before the 'Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck' song about being knee deep in blood. 

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8 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Until the poppys up their game and speak out about this abhorrent abuse, nothing will happen.

As for the Dundee fans, i'm sure they were on their best behaviour as always and not singing from a book borrowed from another disgusting excuse for a club.

I have attended many games against Dundee over the years and have never experienced sectarian singing from Dundee fans.

Would the odd one or two idiots do it?  Quite possibly but thankfully it is not a problem we have in the city.

 

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Of course in any other country in Europe, this sort of thing would not be tolerated. I believe clubs should be fined in an ever increasing manner. If they continue start deducting points. That is the only way to end this small minded moronic Saturday bigotry

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2 minutes ago, The OP said:

When I said it was an amazing coincidence I actually didn't think that it was.

But yes, the supporters would have sung about the IRA regardless. That is correct. They would not have chanted 'Orange b*****ds' before the 'Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck' song about being knee deep in blood. 

:lol:

I'm done.

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Just now, CambieBud said:

Of course in any other country in Europe, this sort of thing would not be tolerated. I believe clubs should be fined in an ever increasing manner. If they continue start deducting points. That is the only way to end this small minded moronic Saturday bigotry

Although idealistic it would never work. Self policing would end in a brawl in the stands. 

1000 fans Vs 15 shouting abhorrent things and endless fines and points reductions?

That's only going to end one way.

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2 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

:lol:

I'm done.

The sellick support were clearly provoked into shouting sectarian abuse.

Dundee fans obviously bring religious abuse upon themselves.

:lol: 

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9 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Barely been a mention of Celtic fans disgraceful behaviour other than PoppyScotland bizarrely coming out with the, 'it's only a minority' chat. (https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/756426/celtic-fans-slammed-for-throwing-fireworks-and-chanting-anti-poppy-song-at-dens-park/ )This isn't a minority and it is quite a regular thing. It is absolutely Scotland's shame and nothing seems to be done about it. On Tuesday night, Celtic had the full IRA song book out and they particularly enjoyed this new ditty:

 Then there was the throwing of fireworks at the Dundee fans, to which the police responded by going to the Dundee support and warning the puckle of fans that weren't happy about having firepoppers thrown into the stand where they were seated with their kids. This isn't a one off thing. It needs to be talked about. It needs to be addressed. It's embarrassing that it has barely even merited a mention as it's now just an accepted thing that happens with fans. The other half are just as bad, this isn't an anti-Celtic thing - it's fucking shocking quite frankly that scenes like this now regularly pass without incident.

 

Singing shove your poppy up yer arse isn't bigoted.

Distasteful maybe but not bigoted.

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I wonder if Celtic fans scream at the Beach Boys and Johnny Cash for singing Sloop John B.

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1 hour ago, The OP said:

I am not saying you must be offended by everything. I am saying you must be offended by almost the same thing.

Right, well thanks for neatly avoiding the point that I was making, which - quite clearly I thought - was that context is key.  Conor McGregor is a negligible presence in Scottish society as compared with Celtic, so it stands to reason that they're going to be judged differently. 

I watch Celtic, live, on TV, or on highlights most weeks of the year.  I've never watched a UFC.  Why do I have to be offended by something I've no knowledge of, or interest in, just to satisfy your bizarre criteria of justification?  It's so obviously not relevant.

2 minutes ago, Bohemian said:

Being opposed to a poppy is now bigoted? :lol: clown

This is a perfect example of how ludicrously skewed the debate on this subject has become.  I honestly wonder if it's symptomatic of how crucially Rangers have mismanaged - or refused to manage - their own problems, that we now view all supporter behaviour in Scotland through the prism of sectarianism.  ie - so long as you're not being sectarian, then one can say whatever you want within a football stadium, and not be castigated for it.

You're right, the thread title is wrong.  The "poppy song" in and of itself is not bigoted in a sectarian sense - but that doesn't mean it's OK, and that doesn't mean it's not offensive either.

It goes back to the Ian Durrant comments of a couple of weeks ago.  If Richard Dawkins, or some respected theologian was to say "f**k the Pope" in the context of a reasoned disagreement with papal policy, or the stance of the Catholic church on any particular matter, then that's a patently different thing from saying to a drunken group of Rangers supporters.  Similarly, it's totally OK to oppose the poppy as you put it, but in the context of a group of Celtic supporters being offensive for the sake of it - it transforms into something completely different and altogether more sinister.  To ignore that is pretty obtuse.

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1 hour ago, The OP said:

When Man U supporters sing the Billy Boys against us it does get a reaction, just like they chant “you scouse b*****ds” when we sing the Fields or YNWA.

They don't sing the Billy Boys though. Only Rangers and Hearts do.

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1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

Pedantic note: Celtic and The Rangers are also provincial clubs.

+1

"Glesgae" and the surrounding areas are also a province in Scotland. 

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 Can we not just agree that all fans of Rangers and Celtic are horrible, bitter, bigoted c***s and move on please.

Posters on here trying to justify the songs they sing shows what a state our society is in.

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1 hour ago, The OP said:

Another point is that is singing about being up to your knees in anyone’s blood not an incitement to violence, a criminal offence and a disgrace in modern society? If we’re being histrionic about songs, let’s set some ground rules.

How about building a bonfire and burning the fucking lot? Pretty sure the vast majority of your support were advocating that last week?

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Just now, Squirrelhumper said:

How about building a bonfire and burning the fucking lot? Pretty sure the vast majority of your support were advocating that last week?

That is an offensive song, possibly more offensive than IRA chanting, but the type which would be condoned on here because it's the type of chant other sets of supporters would indulge in. 

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2 hours ago, The OP said:

Whataboutery it may be, but until you show me a Scot who has joined dissident republican forces because someone sang the Broad Black Brimmer I think the level of coverage of both types of behaviour is proportionate. 

That's not how it works. Nobody buys a can of coke because they saw a billboard on Shettleston Road. Nobody leaves a pig's head outside a mosque because they saw one Britain First graphic on Facebook. It's about a culture. When kids grow up in an environment in which tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people in their community support something, it legitimises it, it makes it real.  A song sung once by one person is a drop in the ocean, but the oceans are made up of drops.

There were Scottish Catholics in the PIRA. Scottish Catholics sent them money. And it's not just Scots that support Celtic. So yes, in my opinion the culture of singing sectarian songs at the football contributes directly to violence in Northern Ireland.

And anyone who thinks the conflict is over hasn't been paying attention. 

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32 minutes ago, The OP said:

It is an amazing coincidence that the sectarian razor gang known as the Billy Boys were also known as the Brigton Derry and there is a lyric "We are the Brigton Derry Boys" in the current Rangers version and Dundee have their own Derry Boys version which sprung up independently. 

I am not saying there would not have been an IRA songfest that night. I'm saying 'Orange b*****ds' was specifically sung as a reaction to something. It seems to be a thing which caught on when the Green Brigade chanted it at Bobby Madden when he was giving a traditional Bobby Madden performance v Aberdeen, then everyone chanted it (or Zombie) at Steven Naismith on Sunday when he went down injured. It's a thing unfortunately but it usually happens when something else happens. 

Celtic a club open to all, as long as you fit their ideals.

Excuses for everything, and offended by just about everything.

Do you not get tired of the victim complex?

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