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Gary Hamilton

Amateur football is dying

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ghsfp01 You're spot on. No point on holding onto anyone who doesn't want to play for you. Get them released. Anybody who signs with us is told that from day one. As long as all training kit, bag, tracksuit etc is handed back in they are released and not before. Been stung before with that.

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I think that without doubt there is a decline in the number of participants in amateur football.
The majority of reasons cited in this thread has varying impacts on the above.

Player commitment is absolutely a huge part of it - there has been a seismic shift in player habits and attitudes.
There's less football on the streets and alot more people spend time indoors or up to other activities.

The financial effect is clear for all to see, with lessening player commitment, and rising costs for parks etc - there's a chasm growing and it's hard to fix.

I also think the way that some teams are ran is an absolute joke, and this doesn't help. There's a ton of great guys out there who are managers and chairmans of clubs, but there are also alot of charlatans involved in the game, people who walk away or fold clubs at the drop off the hat after a few hard weeks. On that basis, I could have folded my club 6, 7, 8 or 9 times throughout the last 7 years when things got hard. the same can be said by many on here i'm sure.

But here's where I may have an unpopular opinion:

We are so focused on the numbers that it *used* to be, so fixated on getting it back to the numbers that once where.

But why? It may sound like a daft question. But really, why don't we just deal with how we know things are and try and fix those?

Forget the numbers, forget that it's in a phase of decline just now and just worry about the quality of what we have.
Let's make sure that clubs are run correctly, let's make sure that the players we do have are committed and care.
Let's keep looking at ways to lower the cost of playing football.
Let's look at ways we as member clubs can help other member clubs by utlising old strips, shared contacts or shared knowledge etc.

Let's stop being fixated on the actual numbers and put our focus into the actual product and what we are trying to achieve, which ever aspect of the game you're involved in.

 

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39 minutes ago, bringbackmols said:

I think that without doubt there is a decline in the number of participants in amateur football.
The majority of reasons cited in this thread has varying impacts on the above.

Player commitment is absolutely a huge part of it - there has been a seismic shift in player habits and attitudes.
There's less football on the streets and alot more people spend time indoors or up to other activities.

The financial effect is clear for all to see, with lessening player commitment, and rising costs for parks etc - there's a chasm growing and it's hard to fix.

I also think the way that some teams are ran is an absolute joke, and this doesn't help. There's a ton of great guys out there who are managers and chairmans of clubs, but there are also alot of charlatans involved in the game, people who walk away or fold clubs at the drop off the hat after a few hard weeks. On that basis, I could have folded my club 6, 7, 8 or 9 times throughout the last 7 years when things got hard. the same can be said by many on here i'm sure.

But here's where I may have an unpopular opinion:

We are so focused on the numbers that it *used* to be, so fixated on getting it back to the numbers that once where.

But why? It may sound like a daft question. But really, why don't we just deal with how we know things are and try and fix those?

Forget the numbers, forget that it's in a phase of decline just now and just worry about the quality of what we have.
Let's make sure that clubs are run correctly, let's make sure that the players we do have are committed and care.
Let's keep looking at ways to lower the cost of playing football.
Let's look at ways we as member clubs can help other member clubs by utlising old strips, shared contacts or shared knowledge etc.

Let's stop being fixated on the actual numbers and put our focus into the actual product and what we are trying to achieve, which ever aspect of the game you're involved in.

 

You will never get the amateur's ranks back to the size of teams that was operating 30, 40 years ago, so yes everyone should deal with what we've got.
All clubs would love to be run to the highest of standard but you will always get some who are not.  But the more information open to everyone like the ideas your supplied Bringbackmolls is excellent

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ghsfp01 You're spot on. No point on holding onto anyone who doesn't want to play for you. Get them released. Anybody who signs with us is told that from day one. As long as all training kit, bag, tracksuit etc is handed back in they are released and not before. Been stung before with that.

Agree. The point I was trying to make was - that if there are 400 amateur teams holding the registrations of 25 players then that’s 10000 players. If there are 400 amateur teams holding only 20 players then there are 2000 players who could be available to fulfill a trialist role (when they are available) for other teams. Unfortunately though teams sign players and hold onto them for cups rather than using them and releasing them.

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Agree. The point I was trying to make was - that if there are 400 amateur teams holding the registrations of 25 players then that’s 10000 players. If there are 400 amateur teams holding only 20 players then there are 2000 players who could be available to fulfill a trialist role (when they are available) for other teams. Unfortunately though teams sign players and hold onto them for cups rather than using them and releasing them.

Ive yet to know of any teams who just wouldnt release players "in case". As long as they hand their stuff back in 99.9% Clubs release players. Still think your wrong re limiting signings per team.

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We could discuss this topic forever. Every point made is totally valid. The name of this thread says it all. The bottom line is if you don't have total commitment on and off the park then you have nothing. Amateur football these days is more of a chore too players and depending on what game it might be, they will pretty much choose to do anything else on a Saturday these days. If it's a big game, they will be there in their numbers, if it's a nothing match, you literally have too go to their house and bundle them into a car. Committee's tend to be a lot more committed than the players in most cases but you can see why they get scunnered too f**k as well. There's far more players who do not give a f**k about the effort that is put in behind the scenes and don't care about letting the club down on matchdays, than ones who do. 

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We could discuss this topic forever. Every point made is totally valid. The name of this thread says it all. The bottom line is if you don't have total commitment on and off the park then you have nothing. Amateur football these days is more of a chore too players and depending on what game it might be, they will pretty much choose to do anything else on a Saturday these days. If it's a big game, they will be there in their numbers, if it's a nothing match, you literally have too go to their house and bundle them into a car. Committee's tend to be a lot more committed than the players in most cases but you can see why they get scunnered too f**k as well. There's far more players who do not give a f**k about the effort that is put in behind the scenes and don't care about letting the club down on matchdays, than ones who do. 

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Just been catching up on a few threads on the forum recently and we now have have the current Scottish and east of scotland champs folded. Farcical stuff and in my view we now have to many guys involved in amatuer fitba that are mercenaries. They don't understand the origins of amatuer fitba.clubs have traditionally been formed form local areas and are made up of local players. You now have clubs popping up that are built on sand and to reliant on 1 or 2 people to keep them going. Once they either get starry eyed and given an opportunity elsewhere "up the ladder" or the old guys running the club get scunnered then they hit trouble. Proper community amatuer teams will prob only ever get a once in a generation group of players that become major contenders. These mercenaries want immediate success and end up ruining a host of clubs in the process. Need the guys running clubs to look longer term and ensure their team is still going when their kids and grandkids are playing.

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Just been catching up on a few threads on the forum recently and we now have have the current Scottish and east of scotland champs folded. Farcical stuff and in my view we now have to many guys involved in amatuer fitba that are mercenaries. They don't understand the origins of amatuer fitba.clubs have traditionally been formed form local areas and are made up of local players. You now have clubs popping up that are built on sand and to reliant on 1 or 2 people to keep them going. Once they either get starry eyed and given an opportunity elsewhere "up the ladder" or the old guys running the club get scunnered then they hit trouble. Proper community amatuer teams will prob only ever get a once in a generation group of players that become major contenders. These mercenaries want immediate success and end up ruining a host of clubs in the process. Need the guys running clubs to look longer term and ensure their team is still going when their kids and grandkids are playing.

Good point. But Committees at some of these clubs must take their fair share of the blame. They are happy to ride the wave of success when the money men appear and buy trophies. Everyone in amateur football knows the clubs that bought success and when the cheats move on or decide they got what they wanted out of it the players have no interest in staying. They just move on to their next wage packet elsewhere leaving a skeleton of a club. Afraid ive no sympathy.

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I was speaking to guy from work last night who plays Rugby for a decent amateur side in Edinburgh - he can't make all their away games due to work so is allowed to register for another team in a lower league in the same association when he can't make his main team's away games. If either team makes a cup final/has a league decider etc he has to have played 50% of his games for that team. This is to stop teams just stockpiling players without playing them, to stop teams folding due to lack of players and to allow guys to actually play every Saturday (which is what amateur sport is all about). Does anyone think this could be adopted with amateur football, or would too many amateur managers be against it? Seems like common sense with the rate teams are folding at the moment

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Big problem I see with this is the hassle it would cause with players getting injured. Can't see a players( main ) club being too happy when/if a player gets badly injured playing with a club from a lower league. I know will happen in rugby circles as well but how do they deal with that. We're stuck with this sportsguard insurance and would they up their annual renewal charges if they were having to insurance more players with different sides.

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On 20/09/2019 at 21:10, october said:

That’s another problem with Amateur football, A group of mates playing football , it takes away players from long standing clubs, lasts about 2 / 3 years and then disappear. That ‘team’ of mates has used up a league place, taken players from other clubs , joined a league and then fold !!!!! Results are declared null and void and they’ve created havoc. That’s why proper run Leagues should only be admitting established clubs with a proven track record , not a group of Pals looking for a game emoji460.pngemoji460.png

Thats a very narrow minded view given most amateur teams probably started as mates wanting to play together, my previous team lasted a decade and was just a "mates" team

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One thing ive always had an issue with is teams promoting before they are good enough, ive seen teams finish 6th in div 2 end uo in div 1 due to teams folding and league restructuring

Ive thought for years that lower divisions should be bigger numbers wise, then lower the team numbers as you go higher up the divisions 

3 leagues of 12 is all fine and good fixtures wise, but all it takes is one or two teams from the top league to fold and all of a sudden you're thrusting teams into a league they arent good enough for

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Just been catching up on a few threads on the forum recently and we now have have the current Scottish and east of scotland champs folded. Farcical stuff and in my view we now have to many guys involved in amatuer fitba that are mercenaries. They don't understand the origins of amatuer fitba.clubs have traditionally been formed form local areas and are made up of local players. You now have clubs popping up that are built on sand and to reliant on 1 or 2 people to keep them going. Once they either get starry eyed and given an opportunity elsewhere "up the ladder" or the old guys running the club get scunnered then they hit trouble. Proper community amatuer teams will prob only ever get a once in a generation group of players that become major contenders. These mercenaries want immediate success and end up ruining a host of clubs in the process. Need the guys running clubs to look longer term and ensure their team is still going when their kids and grandkids are playing.
I see what your saying, local loyalty and and al that, but going by your logic knockentiber, one of the most successful sides in scottish amateur history wouldn't have won a thing because they are from a small village of 8 to 9 hundred people, there are sides like Bearsden, Newton Mearns, and Glenburn from Preswick who come from huge towns without a Junior side and they don't dominate their respective leauges, I'm from Ayrshire and I have seen Shortlees and New Farm get some mega crowds, but I would still fancy Hurlford Thistle for the title this year because players win games not commite and fans

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2 hours ago, The Tavern Tippler said:

I see what your saying, local loyalty and and al that, but going by your logic knockentiber, one of the most successful sides in scottish amateur history wouldn't have won a thing because they are from a small village of 8 to 9 hundred people, there are sides like Bearsden, Newton Mearns, and Glenburn from Preswick who come from huge towns without a Junior side and they don't dominate their respective leauges, I'm from Ayrshire and I have seen Shortlees and New Farm get some mega crowds, but I would still fancy Hurlford Thistle for the title this year because players win games not commite and fans
 

Spot on 

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6 hours ago, The Tavern Tippler said:

I see what your saying, local loyalty and and al that, but going by your logic knockentiber, one of the most successful sides in scottish amateur history wouldn't have won a thing because they are from a small village of 8 to 9 hundred people, there are sides like Bearsden, Newton Mearns, and Glenburn from Preswick who come from huge towns without a Junior side and they don't dominate their respective leauges, I'm from Ayrshire and I have seen Shortlees and New Farm get some mega crowds, but I would still fancy Hurlford Thistle for the title this year because players win games not commite and fans
 

Maybe cause Thi$tle pay thousands a year to win the league. They are the main reason why there are no more teams like knockentiber and Clark drive as they can’t compete with the money thistle throw about each season and league was a 1 horse race for years until Shortlees got promoted. 

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Maybe cause Thi$tle pay thousands a year to win the league. They are the main reason why there are no more teams like knockentiber and Clark drive as they can’t compete with the money thistle throw about each season and league was a 1 horse race for years until Shortlees got promoted. 
Yes wingwaa they are cheating b*****ds, everyone knows that, the point I was trying to make is a big Commite and fan base helps out a lot, but at the end of the day it's the boys and men on the field that bring the silverware home not the 12th man

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I’ve been involved in amateur football for over 45 yrs and one of the biggest problems or reasons for the demise of amateur football is the total lack of dedicated committee men unfortunately it’s just modern life and nothing much we can do about that most clubs that have folded recently have been when the committee have all just reached an age where they’re basically to old and nobody has been able to step in to carry on its sad but there we go !!

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