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Gary Hamilton

Amateur football is dying

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Football teams are in decline, youth football and amateur football.
There are so many reasons, youths as they get older have other interests, drink, girls, playstations xbox, online, nightlife etc..
There will always be amateur football, that's for sure but it will eventually reach  certain level because of the environment that we live in.

30 odd years ago we had tons of youth teams and tons and tons of amateurs as nearly everyone played football.
You'll see problems on the youth sections of their forum and by a certain extent the same for amateurs. Even the price of parks, the referee can take its toll.
Astro parks costing £100 then referee about £30-40, that's £130 odd for a game of football. Add to that there is less parks with all the new housing estates being built.

Some amateur teams are connected with the junior teams as in training beside them and some could be closer but it is hard. As long as each league are organised well and are looking to improve and ideas to keep amateur football interesting then it will add to a continued amateur football experience in Scotland.

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Football teams are in decline, youth football and amateur football.
There are so many reasons, youths as they get older have other interests, drink, girls, playstations xbox, online, nightlife etc..
There will always be amateur football, that's for sure but it will eventually reach  certain level because of the environment that we live in.

30 odd years ago we had tons of youth teams and tons and tons of amateurs as nearly everyone played football.
You'll see problems on the youth sections of their forum and by a certain extent the same for amateurs. Even the price of parks, the referee can take its toll.
Astro parks costing £100 then referee about £30-40, that's £130 odd for a game of football. Add to that there is less parks with all the new housing estates being built.

Some amateur teams are connected with the junior teams as in training beside them and some could be closer but it is hard. As long as each league are organised well and are looking to improve and ideas to keep amateur football interesting then it will add to a continued amateur football experience in Scotland.

Remember the absolutely ludicrous academy system the SFA runs

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15 hours ago, Gary Hamilton said:

So how do we fix it, I’ve defected to the juniors now. I’d be keen to be involved in some form of restructuring working group

 

21 minutes ago, Gary Hamilton said:

Remember the absolutely ludicrous academy system the SFA runs

^^^ this would be a good place to start...

The SFA youth programme (pro-youth or whatever the f**k it’s called) has killed off more young footballers than it’s created.

Also a coherent amateur structure would help a lot but that’s for the SAFA to deal with.

It still doesn’t get away from the fact that most guys who would really want to play are stuck with jobs that make it impossible to commit to training/playing regularly... everyone works different shifts, so to get 22+ guys in the same places at the same time is near impossible now no matter when you play the games.

Also the costs are spiralling out of control, most amateur league players are only just keeping a roof over their heads and can’t afford to be paying as much into playing football... unless you have a very generous sponsor on board, I can’t see how it will ever change

Edited by Spyro

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16 hours ago, Gary Hamilton said:

So how do we fix it, I’ve defected to the juniors now. I’d be keen to be involved in some form of restructuring working group

I don't think this would help. Loving the fact that you actually suggested something though as it may be a start. The trouble is people's working life. The shifts that folk are required too work these days leads them too have a virtual non existent social life. Guys work backshift or nights so can't train. Then come a Saturday they either want too go get pissed with their mates or get forced into doing something with the wife and kids. Or could even still be working.  There is no question that that is the single biggest problem in amateur football. No amateur club has all their players available every week and the majority struggle most weeks to get 11 players on the park 

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1 hour ago, Gary Hamilton said:


Remember the absolutely ludicrous academy system the SFA runs

The pro youth academies, so many names for it but the way it works for every 30 boys in each team, the club are really only interested in about 2 of them and the rest are fodder and most of the parents don't realise this.  We got about 6 boys from Clyde into our Rossvale youth teams all at the same age and you could see they were scunnered. Some of those boys eventually packed football in and don't even think they are playing amateur now but as a few posters have stated above, its todays environment that most of us have to work, work late and work weekends

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I noticed on the youth forum that there is a similar thread about the demise of under 21 football. Would it be a benefit to scrap under 21s and that would then make more players available to the amateur ranks. I know there is a few 21s teams linked to junior clubs so can see why they might be reluctant to this change, however they could work more closely with the local amatuer teams in their area to pick up the better players.

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Is there a reason why junior teams can sign boys from youth football on dual forms but amateurs can’t? I think if this was available more amateur teams could benefit from naming youngsters in there matchday squad if short and similarly the youngsters could get the experience and also play sunday for there youth teams

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8 hours ago, last man standing said:

Is there a reason why junior teams can sign boys from youth football on dual forms but amateurs can’t? I think if this was available more amateur teams could benefit from naming youngsters in there matchday squad if short and similarly the youngsters could get the experience and also play sunday for there youth teams

This has already been commented on the youth forum and I think many are for it.
The problem is the SYFA and the SAFA, they are quite happy in their jobs and don't really want to make changes.

If a lad is committed to his youth team and say they play on a sunday and a amateur team play on a sunday then he should be able to do so as there will never cross over each other unless, the lad is sent off his youth team then maybe he should be suspended from all football if say, its a  game ban

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread

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It seems to me the issue isn't structural - except the multitude of leagues covering Glasgow is bewildering and surely cannot be efficient.

Fundamentally the issue is too few players. Some of it might be combated by addressing costs, youth set-up, bureaucracy etc. Some is societal and its difficult to see how you could ever 'adapt' formal competitive club football to cope.


I'm not sure Under 21 football is necessarily quite the same issue. Ultimately plenty men who play football will want to be playing mens football, not continue in "youth" set-ups until they're 20 or 21; also there's been huge growth in LL & EOS U20s league played on Friday nights, under senior auspices, effectively replacing U21s. Presumably U21s players also get drawn-up into amateur football in the same way people cite amateurs being drawn-up into junior football.

After SYFA reorganisation in late 1990s/early 2000s the SAFA was supposed to take-on U21s anyway, IIRC. My understanding is U21s football is now basically restricted to Strathclyde?


People have been calling for "universal registration" - so you can play for any team within a club, or different clubs across different grades - for decades. Authorities always resistant.

Edited by HibeeJibee

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It seems to me the issue isn't structural - except the multitude of leagues covering Glasgow is bewildering and surely cannot be efficient.

Fundamentally the issue is too few players. Some of it might be combated by addressing costs, youth set-up, bureaucracy etc. Some is societal and its difficult to see how you could ever 'adapt' formal competitive club football to cope.


I'm not sure Under 21 football is necessarily quite the same issue. Ultimately plenty men who play football will want to be playing mens football, not continue in "youth" set-ups until they're 20 or 21; also there's been huge growth in LL & EOS U20s league played on Friday nights, under senior auspices, effectively replacing U21s. Presumably U21s players also get drawn-up into amateur football in the same way people cite amateurs being drawn-up into junior football.

After SYFA reorganisation in late 1990s/early 2000s the SAFA was supposed to take-on U21s anyway, IIRC. My understanding is U21s football is now basically restricted to Strathclyde?


People have been calling for "universal registration" - so you can play for any team within a club, or different clubs across different grades - for decades. Authorities always resistant.

Great post

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On 15/09/2019 at 15:24, Bestsinceslicebread said:

This has already been commented on the youth forum and I think many are for it.
The problem is the SYFA and the SAFA, they are quite happy in their jobs and don't really want to make changes.

If a lad is committed to his youth team and say they play on a sunday and a amateur team play on a sunday then he should be able to do so as there will never cross over each other unless, the lad is sent off his youth team then maybe he should be suspended from all football if say, its a  game ban

It's nothing to do with the SAFA. I've been party to conversations in which the SAFA have made it clear that they want the dual registration to be opened up to include amateur. It's exclusively the SYFA preventing this happening. I've posted about this a number of times and on twitter - the SYFA want the 'prestige' of a player pathway to junior football. There's nothing stopping registrations being allowed between youth and amateur. I am of the opinion, thats the way that it SHOULD be. More players would stay in the game and play more often - not to mention, those who are better would still make the move to junior if they so want. 

 

In addition to this, why are u21's part of the SYFA? They are adults. The u21's should be under the jurisdiction of the SAFA - and I know there's appetite for this within the SAFA too. 

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4 hours ago, Gunner said:

It's nothing to do with the SAFA. I've been party to conversations in which the SAFA have made it clear that they want the dual registration to be opened up to include amateur. It's exclusively the SYFA preventing this happening. I've posted about this a number of times and on twitter - the SYFA want the 'prestige' of a player pathway to junior football. There's nothing stopping registrations being allowed between youth and amateur. I am of the opinion, thats the way that it SHOULD be. More players would stay in the game and play more often - not to mention, those who are better would still make the move to junior if they so want. 

 

In addition to this, why are u21's part of the SYFA? They are adults. The u21's should be under the jurisdiction of the SAFA - and I know there's appetite for this within the SAFA too. 

Couple of things, I have heard a few say its both associations but Yes I'm totally agreement with the SYFA totally participation in this problem  that the SYFA are only interested in the prestige and keeping it jobs for the boys when there are many who could easily reshape the association to become  more about the development of grassroots with improvements.  The amount of problems that the SYFA create or don't want to deal with that are harming youth football is unbelievable. Most don't know or care as they are either working in the Junior ranks, amateur ranks or senior ranks and don't really know how stagnant the youth football is.    I went to the SYFA and asked them if I could coach another team at U19s who play in a different league on a different day to my U16 team and they said No, stating the only excuse was that if I was banned then I'd try and still coach for another team and then they shut the door on me, no other reason, not even saying they will look into it with evidence to see if there's a benefit. They thing everything they say is right and guys like me who spend their time on the training field and days during games who interact with the lads, know how their feeling and the SYFA think our voice and ideas don't count.

The U21s have been in the youth set up for a long, long time, even before I was born and a lot of junior teams used their connection with the U21s than any other teams, i.e younger youth teams or the amateur teams. SO id rather the u21s stay in the youth set up.  however in the near future if a lot of junior teams jump to the seniors then a lot of them will need development teams at U20 and thus the remit might change

I have been a big advocate that if your are at U17 level, Under 19s or u21s then if your team plays on a certain day, say the Saturday then you should be allowed to play with either another same age team in a different league on a different day or play with an amateur team on a different day. Giving the lad more experience with different styles and standards of play to learn from. The only reason why both youth teams would clash is that they are draw with each other in the Scottish or regional so the lad should only be allowed to play in the Scottish or regional with the team of his choice. Or the only way he should be connected with an amateur team and youth team is that he is sent off or suspended, meaning his misses games for both teams.

Edited by Bestsinceslicebread

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I think in Ayrshire it’s lack of facilities and too many teams in a small town such as Kilmarnock. Take Bonnyton for instance they have just been informed that their home ground is not up for rent for teams of over 18s due to language and noise pollution. I think grass pitches alone in Kilmarnock there is maybe only 4 pitches available although I may be wrong

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I think in Ayrshire it’s lack of facilities and too many teams in a small town such as Kilmarnock. Take Bonnyton for instance they have just been informed that their home ground is not up for rent for teams of over 18s due to language and noise pollution. I think grass pitches alone in Kilmarnock there is maybe only 4 pitches available although I may be wrong
There must be more than that. Offhand I can think of Scott Ellis, Dean Park (both of which have several parks), Bellfield, Riccarton, Moorfield (although it's never used or cut for that matter), Burnpark. Then Astros at Grange, St Joseph's, Kilmarnock College.

Glenfield used to have the best parks in the town before they abandoned it and let it grow wild.

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Bit harsh on guys running teams, having done so myself its is extremely frustrating when your going through your phone book on a sunday morning begging guys to come help, having to organise kits, equipment etc, 
A lot of the guys running teams can feel unappreciated and when players start ripping the piss its no wonder the coaches think "f**k this" 


At long last last, someone with the same opinion as me, and the real reason Amateur football is dying. It’s not about money, it’s not about parks, it’s not about lack of players, it’s all about club committee men and in particular the manager.
The amount of work Amateur managers put in EVERY week to ensure they get 11 players on the park is phenomenal. They also take the training, they phone the players to make sure they are available , they carry all the kit, they have to make all the real decisions and without a dedicated committee helping him, the manager might just walk away and without a manager there is no club
. Teams just can’t get managers any more or committee people. When’s players retires these days, they just disappear and put nothing back into the game AND therein lies the problem
No-One wants the hassle of running a team anymore. Fortunately at Giffnock North we have a fantastic/ dedicated manager, an assistant manager, head coach, warm up coach and 2 committee guys who NEVER miss a match.
Take these guys away and there would be no Giffnock North. So there is the answer - It’s simply a lack of good dedicated guys who simply want to run a club

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There must be more than that. Offhand I can think of Scott Ellis, Dean Park (both of which have several parks), Bellfield, Riccarton, Moorfield (although it's never used or cut for that matter), Burnpark. Then Astros at Grange, St Joseph's, Kilmarnock College.

Glenfield used to have the best parks in the town before they abandoned it and let it grow wild.

You may be right mate but u think dean is privately owed and also moorfield has no running water I think this is the case anyway. It’s tough to book Astro in Kilmarnock as these are usually taking up by Hurlford, Shortlees etc.

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2 hours ago, october said:

 


At long last last, someone with the same opinion as me, and the real reason Amateur football is dying. It’s not about money, it’s not about parks, it’s not about lack of players, it’s all about club committee men and in particular the manager.
The amount of work Amateur managers put in EVERY week to ensure they get 11 players on the park is phenomenal. They also take the training, they phone the players to make sure they are available , they carry all the kit, they have to make all the real decisions and without a dedicated committee helping him, the manager might just walk away and without a manager there is no club
. Teams just can’t get managers any more or committee people. When’s players retires these days, they just disappear and put nothing back into the game AND therein lies the problem
No-One wants the hassle of running a team anymore. Fortunately at Giffnock North we have a fantastic/ dedicated manager, an assistant manager, head coach, warm up coach and 2 committee guys who NEVER miss a match.
Take these guys away and there would be no Giffnock North. So there is the answer - It’s simply a lack of good dedicated guys who simply want to run a club

 

Whilst I agree with the content of all this I have attended matches where a player is managing a team for whatever reason. Players putting goals out and subs dishing out the water. Teams can survive, only just mind you, without managers and a strong committee, but they simply can't without players 

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We celebrate our 60th year this year 2019 and in the time I have been involved with the club which is the best part of 20 years now Wishaw High School FPs have always had a strong dependable commitee with a good few of them still doing the jobs they did when I arrived at the club. A strong committee is priceless to an amateur club. Here's to the next 60 years but don't think ah'll be around then 🤣

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