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Gary Hamilton

Amateur football is dying

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On 22/12/2018 at 10:32, Gary Hamilton said:


That’s because there’s on league set up in your region

This  is true. But I still don’t believe amateur football is on the way out?

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Absolutely. There would be a long way to go for Saturday amateur football to be on the way out. It still has approaching 600 sides.

By the same token - if (say) 560 clubs make it to the start line for next season then 1 in 3 teams will have gone in 6yrs. Which is alarming.

Perhaps the rate of decline will reduce this year. Starting from 2013-14 the losses each season have been 18, 63, 44, 61 and 39 so it hasn't really been improving.

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On 11/12/2018 at 23:23, HibeeJibee said:

Very interesting thread. Obviously the big issue is fewer young men wanting to play; but points over U21s, pro-youth, regulations, expense and competition in Strathclyde also valid. Here are some stats:
 

Saturday       ’13  ’14  ’15  ’16  ’17  ‘18

leagues        -14  -15  -16  -17  -18  -19

 

Aberdeenshire   85   83   81   82   77   71

Ayrshire        57   55   53   49   45   44

Border          31   31   30   30   33   33

Caledonian      26   30   33   33   34   32

Central         33   33   33   29   32   36

Dumfries         7 X

Fife            29   30   27   30   37   35

Greater Glas.   49   40   38   35   34   34

Kingdom Cale.   14   12   12   11 X

Lothian         73   68   60   57   56   58

Midlands        53   53   43   41   25   25

Lanarkshire     20   22   19   14 X

Paisley         28   28   22   17   12 X

Perthshire      29   27   27   29   26   26

Scottish        52   54   42   38   37   34

Stirling        45   49   43   39   35   26
West            20   16   12    7 X

(Morn) Dundee   34   37   30   34   34   34
(Morn) Glasg.   31   32   27   23   19   19

(Morn) G.Col.   32   32   32   30   29   29

(Morn) Strat.   42   38   38   41   55   47

(Church) East    8   10   19   10 X

(Church) Str.   40   40   36   34   32   30

 

               838  820  757  713  652  613    down 225 (27%)

 

 

 

Sunday         ’13  ’14  ’15  ’16  ’17

leagues        -14  -15  -16  -17  -18

 

Aberdeen        16   17   15   14   15

Airdrie-Coatb.  21   24   20   31   33

Carluke         19   18   14 X

Dumfries        18   20   20   18   18

Dundee          18   19   12    7    8

Edinburgh       21   15   19 X

Fife            31   32   28   26   26

Forfar          10   11 X

Lothian         37   32   30   38   47

North Ayrshire  10 X

Perthshire      12   10 X

Stranraer        7    7    6 X

Sunday Central  48   51   47   54   55

West Lothian    25   32   25   19   22

West Ayrshire   15   17   18   11   14

Forth Valley                      X 10

 

                308 305  254  218  248    down 60 (20%) after peaking down 90 (30%)

Any reason why the Midlands league has had such a massive drop?  Seems bigger than all the rest.  Only 20 teams this season and down from 53 a few seasons ago.

Edited by stanley

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1 hour ago, stanley said:

Any reason why the Midlands league has had such a massive drop?  Seems bigger than all the rest.  Only 20 teams this season and down from 53 a few seasons ago.

It appears the numbers for the last 2 seasons should actually be 39 and 30, which are still not great (down 44%), but not as low as 25 and 20.

They have an "Alliance" set-up below the Premier, First and (now defunct) Second divisions which appears to alter format every season.

Sometimes it's been 2 regular divisions... sometimes a single big division where teams play once then split into top and bottom halves and play once again (or twice in the bottom split one year)... sometimes a single big division where teams play half their opponents once and half twice unless that's just a different way of showing the split arrangement.

There are only 10 "Alliance" teams left this season so presumably just 1 regular division - there are 12 in Premier plus 8 in First divisions.

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It seems like the Alliance is made up of some of the teams in the premier and first?  I don't have any knowledge of the league but, from looking at the tables, not sure there any different teams in the Alliance except maybe reserves.

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Where are all the youth/ young players going ........... girlfriends, drink, maybe they have other interests?  Nae where as many young boys wanting to play fitba as there was. Who can we blame.............. US.

NAE BODY ELSE. We as a collective group have let other distractions take over from Fitba.

Loads of young teams from 5/6 yrs old till 16ish  but then it stops when they then discover some other things that excites them. Can we not keep them in the fitba roundabout as well as keep their Hormones in check as well. They did it with us.

No matter where you live, Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh or Glasgow  ( young teams in the area ). How many will continue in to the ammy game or further and if you look at teams that do well that are out of the main catchment area ( Oban for example ) how do they compete on regular basis or even survive with the distractions around them.

Having watched some youth games I  am not totally surprised that some young players have given up playng football due to TV interference  which they have allowed  to carry on to the park and they then feel like invicible

Aye modern technology has brightened our day and given us umpteen displays of how to perfect a dive to get a penalty or how to whimper like a wee bairn when an opponent actually TOUCHES YOU  when he tackles you. Embarrassing when watching even youth fitba and you see this happening. Just as bad when you hear them talking to the ref like he is a piece of shit. Not ALL young players, just some but enough is enough. 

Football is a contact sport that should be played with only trying to beat your opponent with skill and determination  and forget the cheating.

Well that was a waste of 40 mins writings this, hopefully you got a good nights sleep. 

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19 hours ago, stanley said:

It seems like the Alliance is made up of some of the teams in the premier and first?  I don't have any knowledge of the league but, from looking at the tables, not sure there any different teams in the Alliance except maybe reserves.

Looks like they're reserve teams.

Today there were 6 Premier games (full complement), 3 First Division (from possible 4), 4 Alliance (from possible 5), but also 2 cup-ties.

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I used to have a lot of Scottish amateur cup final programmes, it usually stated the amount of entrants for each season and if I remember correctly it was usually about 630-650? Would anyone be able to say if the programme from last years final gives a total entry for 2017-18 season?

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Just to stir this thread back up with some positivity......

Some absolute cracking cup ties on this wkd. The amateur game has its struggles but ill bet there will be a few decent crowds at a few of the bigger ties in both national cup this Sat. 

Best of luck to all involved!!!

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After seeing the draw for the second round of the Scottish Cup today, it appears that my thoughts are correct. There was only 256 teams in the draw for round 2 today. It used to be 10 rounds to the semi finals now it’s 7, it won’t take people long to work out how many teams used to take part in the competition

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1 hour ago, Gary Hamilton said:

After seeing the draw for the second round of the Scottish Cup today, it appears that my thoughts are correct. There was only 256 teams in the draw for round 2 today. It used to be 10 rounds to the semi finals now it’s 7, it won’t take people long to work out how many teams used to take part in the competition

Its a fact that the ammie game is in decline m8, theres no doubt about it.

Any ideas or solutions to improve or re-energise it???

 

 

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All grass roots football is dying. The problem is starting at lower level senior teams. They are struggling so taking mid level junior players. The junior clubs are replacing them with amatuer players who cant find enough youths to replace them with coz pro youth has sucked the life out of unsuccessful boys. As kris boyd says. Worrying times ahead

After seeing the draw for the second round of the Scottish Cup today, it appears that my thoughts are correct. There was only 256 teams in the draw for round 2 today. It used to be 10 rounds to the semi finals now it’s 7, it won’t take people long to work out how many teams used to take part in the competition

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The reason amateur football is dying is that a lot of people have to work silly shift patterns or 4 on- 4 off to survive. Big companies take the pure piss by making people work varying hours over 6 days a week to make any sort of liveable wage so no one is able to commit to playing for a team as it doesn’t match their shifts and it’s not like many folk (especially younger people) have any option just to go and find another job... THAT is the main reason amateur football is dying in the UK

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On 11/12/2018 at 23:23, HibeeJibee said:

Very interesting thread. Obviously the big issue is fewer young men wanting to play; but points over U21s, pro-youth, regulations, expense and competition in Strathclyde also valid. Here are some stats:
 

Saturday       ’13  ’14  ’15  ’16  ’17  ‘18

leagues        -14  -15  -16  -17  -18  -19

 

Aberdeenshire   85   83   81   82   77   71

Ayrshire        57   55   53   49   45   44

Border          31   31   30   30   33   33

Caledonian      26   30   33   33   34   32

Central         33   33   33   29   32   36

Dumfries         7 X

Fife            29   30   27   30   37   35

Greater Glas.   49   40   38   35   34   34

Kingdom Cale.   14   12   12   11 X

Lothian         73   68   60   57   56   58

Midlands        53   53   43   41   25   25

Lanarkshire     20   22   19   14 X

Paisley         28   28   22   17   12 X

Perthshire      29   27   27   29   26   26

Scottish        52   54   42   38   37   34

Stirling        45   49   43   39   35   26
West            20   16   12    7 X

(Morn) Dundee   34   37   30   34   34   34
(Morn) Glasg.   31   32   27   23   19   19

(Morn) G.Col.   32   32   32   30   29   29

(Morn) Strat.   42   38   38   41   55   47

(Church) East    8   10   19   10 X

(Church) Str.   40   40   36   34   32   30

 

               838  820  757  713  652  613    down 225 (27%)

 

 

 

Sunday         ’13  ’14  ’15  ’16  ’17

leagues        -14  -15  -16  -17  -18

 

Aberdeen        16   17   15   14   15

Airdrie-Coatb.  21   24   20   31   33

Carluke         19   18   14 X

Dumfries        18   20   20   18   18

Dundee          18   19   12    7    8

Edinburgh       21   15   19 X

Fife            31   32   28   26   26

Forfar          10   11 X

Lothian         37   32   30   38   47

North Ayrshire  10 X

Perthshire      12   10 X

Stranraer        7    7    6 X

Sunday Central  48   51   47   54   55

West Lothian    25   32   25   19   22

West Ayrshire   15   17   18   11   14

Forth Valley                      X 10

 

                308 305  254  218  248    down 60 (20%) after peaking down 90 (30%)

Would be interesting to see how this Looks This year I know the SAFL are down to 29 Clubs a drop of 5 from last year [ but only 2 folded ]

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This is one of the best threads I have read it’s great to read that so many people still love the game t would be great if the associations took some of this on board keep it going lads great reading

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What age do we feel we are losing players to the game, 17-20??

At 17 if ur released from a Club is that the end? No chance, there are players who are getting released for whatever reason then falling out with the game. 

If amateur teams are really struggling why are they no going out and trying to get these lads 17-20,  get them in and coach them. 

Short term it will give u numbers to work with atleast and you will probably find that you will have some technically very good players.

In Scotland nowadays young players should never give up, theres still great opportunities to make it in the game so imo the amateur game should look toward younger players, the benefits for both players & Clubs could be huge.

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The change in people's working hours has definitely been the main factor in the reduction in players/teams playing amateur football. There is not many people working the traditional 9-5 Monday to Friday now...shift work and also the need to work away from home during the week means it's difficult for guys to commit to training and games every week. Also with many guys partners also working shifts it adds another difficulty especially if you have kids. The Pro Youth setup is also not helping and I see no benefit whatsoever to this. From a young age you are seeing kids being snapped up by pro teams to effectively make up the numbers for there youth teams as they are nowhere near good enough to have a full time career in the game. When they are eventually discarded at 16/17 they end up scunnered with football altogether and it's difficult to get them back into the game. The enjoyment of playing football is taken away from these kids at a young age and once that's away it will be difficult to get it back. All levels of the game are suffering due to the pro youth setup and can only see that continuing until a change is brought in.

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15 hours ago, auld yin wae knowledge said:

Would be interesting to see how this Looks This year I know the SAFL are down to 29 Clubs a drop of 5 from last year [ but only 2 folded ]

My measure is slightly inaccurate as I should be correcting 2018-19's figure to one tabulated from the Scottish Football Almanac - that aside I've totalled this season's figures from league websites... the result is 598 clubs (down 240 on 2013-14).

Unless I've missed something, there seems to have been big growth of Saturday morning football in Glasgow (up 12 teams)... Otherwise most are down, some heavily, except Midlands up 5 and Greater Glasgow up 4 on last season.


Saturday       ’13  ’14  ’15  ’16  ’17  ‘18  '19
leagues        -14  -15  -16  -17  -18  -19  -20

 

Aberdeenshire   85   83   81   82   77   71   66

Ayrshire        57   55   53   49   45   44   43

Border          31   31   30   30   33   33   32

Caledonian      26   30   33   33   34   32   29

Central         33   33   33   29   32   36   29

Dumfries         7 X

Fife            29   30   27   30   37   35   32 ?

Greater Glas.   49   40   38   35   34   34   38

Kingdom Cale.   14   12   12   11 X

Lothian         73   68   60   57   56   58   50

Midlands        53   53   43   41   25   25   30

Lanarkshire     20   22   19   14 X

Paisley         28   28   22   17   12 X

Perthshire      29   27   27   29   26   26   26

Scottish        52   54   42   38   37   34   29

Stirling        45   49   43   39   35   26   21
West            20   16   12    7 X

(Morn) Dundee   34   37   30   34   34   34   35 ?
(Morn) Glasg.   31   32   27   23   19   19   28

(Morn) G.Col.   32   32   32   30   29   29   30

(Morn) Strat.   42   38   38   41   55   47   49

(Church) East    8   10   19   10 X

(Church) Str.   40   40   36   34   32   30   31

 

               838  820  757  713  652  613  598     down 240 (29%)

Edited by HibeeJibee

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Interestingly that averages at a loss of 40 clubs per season (though it's varied between 15 and 63). At a continued rate you'd drop below 500 clubs in 2022-23... 400 in 2024-25... and 300 in 2027-28.

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