Calling Cards of Morons

[pandarilla]

What do you think is the cause of it?

I think it's incredibly complex, and at times subtle, but ultimately I think mobile phones is the biggest culprit.

Yes this kind of thing has been mentioned since those rebellious ruffians in the 60s (part of a course I teach), but I think you'd struggle to find many teachers who think there's nothing different about the last 10-15 years.

The addictiveness of both gaming and social media is having a massive impact on attention spans, and those without a stable home background have more insurmountable barriers to their learning than ever before.

The austerity cuts since 2009/10 have also had a noticeable effect in Dundee. Any primary teacher or guidance teacher at secondary will tell you that. This is obviously a separate issue but phones have added a different dimension that effects kids from all backgrounds.

I'd also like to add that I don't support a return to military service as it was, not in the slightest. But I do think a 21st century version, non-military, but with a clear focus and purpose could be something that makes a big difference. It doesn't matter what you're passionate about, but you have to be committed to something in life.

[welshbairn]

11 hours ago, pandarilla said:

I'm not entirely sure a modern day national service is such a bad idea. There's definitely a crisis in teenagers trying to find an identity. Forcing them to do something might work.

(I'm certain I saw someone left wing argue this recently, but for the life of me can't remember where)
 

Chuka Umunna?

[Gaz FFC]

1 hour ago, Shandon Par said:

I was listening to an interview with Ian Hislop the other day and he was talking about this and quoted some stuff like that from a text that sounded like some proper gammony chat.. dating back to 1AD. Auld codgers have always had rose tinted memories and a lack of respect for the next generation.

Love it when some auld coffin dodging dick delivers the line "the good old days"

I'm still to hear 1 thing from back in the day that was better than now. Literally everything from yesteryear sounds horrific and going by the constant reports in the news it seems a very large number of people thought it was acceptable to abuse underage family members.

[Dons_1988]

Just to play devil's advocate here, another calling card of morons is young folk who think all old people are gammony idiots who know nothing and that they are the enlightened truth holders.

[nsr]

Middle-aged people are the only ones who know what we're doing. We also produce everything and pay for everything. Young people and old people can get in the sea.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, nsr said:

Middle-aged people are the only ones who know what we're doing. We also produce everything and pay for everything. Young people and old people can get in the sea.

Abso-bloody-exactly

[Guest Moomintroll]

Middle-aged people are the only ones who know what we're doing. We also produce everything and pay for everything. Young people and old people can get in the sea.

Preach.

[OSP]

10 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Do you see any evidence of kids having a realisation that their phones are making them feel bad and not using them as much? I know of a few adults who have binned a lot of social media etc. for this reason but haven't heard of this so much for kids. Perhaps the pressure to stay online is too high while at school.

My niece is 16, and she commented recently about how much she hates social media, and the fact she feels she needs to portray an image of herself through it that isn't 100% true.  Even worse to her, is the thought of being outcast as being different from the crowd by not using it.

Basically the same insecurities all teenagers have gone through since the dawn of time, just magnified by the fact that technology adds a bit more pressure due to the way we use it.

[The OP]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48147378

 

Social media effects 'tiny' in teenagers, large study finds. 

[strichener]

54 minutes ago, The OP said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48147378

 

Social media effects 'tiny' in teenagers, large study finds. 

99.75% of satisfaction has nothing to do with Social Media in 10 -15 year olds.  Anyone claiming this is academically proven should be roundly ignored on the subject.

[pandarilla]

Do you see any evidence of kids having a realisation that their phones are making them feel bad and not using them as much? I know of a few adults who have binned a lot of social media etc. for this reason but haven't heard of this so much for kids. Perhaps the pressure to stay online is too high while at school.

A bit, bit not particularly no.

It's the attention span issue that is most noticeable, although it has ramped up bullying quite a bit (in terms of nature and ease I mean, not necessarily in terms of numbers).

The length of documentary/film clips that work has changed considerably in the last ten years. Most pupils in most classes could watch a 30 minute programme without much fuss when I started, but it's simply not an option now, without having quite a lot of low level disruption.

I notice it myself and with my missus too, finding ourselves tuning out and checking phones whilst watching something.

As I said, numerous complex issues, and certainly no easy solutions.

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

I don't understand the statistics they use but here's the piece thats in the press at the moment

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/04/30/1902058116

PNAS...Fnarr.

[The Moonster]

25 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

A bit, bit not particularly no.

It's the attention span issue that is most noticeable, although it has ramped up bullying quite a bit (in terms of nature and ease I mean, not necessarily in terms of numbers).

The length of documentary/film clips that work has changed considerably in the last ten years. Most pupils in most classes could watch a 30 minute programme without much fuss when I started, but it's simply not an option now, without having quite a lot of low level disruption.

I notice it myself and with my missus too, finding ourselves tuning out and checking phones whilst watching something.

As I said, numerous complex issues, and certainly no easy solutions.

I'm not doubting your experiences here, but I was in high school 10-15 years ago and there was always low level disruption when any sort of video or documentary was shown. Attention spans shorten when kids are doing shit that doesn't interest them, it might be made worse now because they automatically just turn to their phone to keep themselves interested, but I think it's more to do with what they're actually learning at school. I certainly don't see National Service as something that improves attention span, forcing them to do more shit they don't want to do isn't going to win over anyone.

I believe it was Carl Sagan who said he could go to any early primary school class (Amrican equivalent obviously) and talk about the stars, the sun, the solar system and the kids all come back with interesting questions and ideas about it, all of them get involved in discussion. He'd then go and speak to a high school class and barely anyone looks like they give a f**k, having to try and bleed answers from them. Something happens to kids during those years that sucks the curiosity out of them, whether that's down to the school curriculum, societal issues or both, I don't know, but I can't help but think the school curriculum has a big part to play.

[The OP]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

99.75% of satisfaction has nothing to do with Social Media in 10 -15 year olds.  Anyone claiming this is academically proven should be roundly ignored on the subject.

I'm going to go ahead and give the Oxford Internet Institute at the University of Oxford more credence than strichener from P&B tbh. 

[Shandon Par]

14 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Something happens to kids during those years that sucks the curiosity out of them, whether that's down to the school curriculum, societal issues or both, I don't know, but I can't help but think the school curriculum has a big part to play.

Maybe peer pressure? So many kids at that age don't want to stand out. They don't want to say something that could get them mocked. I've seen it with youth football teams too - boys doing the bare minimum to seem "cool". Doesn't sound an especially new phenomenom. 

I'm always surprised at just how much brighter my kid and her pals are than I remember being at their age. There also seem to be much more tolerant and accepting about stuff like sexuality, care about the environment and the advent of smart phones allows them to be creative, not just antisocial. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

36 minutes ago, Shandon Par said:

 

I'm always surprised at just how much brighter my kid and her pals are than I remember being at their age. There also seem to be much more tolerant and accepting about stuff like sexuality, care about the environment and the advent of smart phones allows them to be creative, not just antisocial. 

Yes, it's strange. My two couldn't give two hoots for any of that. I don't know where they get from.

[Derry Alli]

People who hate these generations need to remember who raised it.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, The OP said:

I'm going to go ahead and give the Oxford Internet Institute at the University of Oxford more credence than strichener from P&B tbh. 

I'm going to give real life experience more credence than an academic study that is based on kids estimating how much time they spend on social media (only on school days) and then forming statistical analysis on the averages to come up with an impact.  I take it you are familiar with the research of Andrew K. Przybylski? 

[Cardinal Richelieu]

6 minutes ago, strichener said:

I'm going to give real life experience more credence than an academic study that is based on kids estimating how much time they spend on social media (only on school days) and then forming statistical analysis on the averages to come up with an impact.  I take it you are familiar with the research of Andrew K. Przybylski? 

I am. He was a polis-turned-teacher in The Wire. 

[The OP]

8 minutes ago, strichener said:

I'm going to give real life experience more credence than an academic study that is based on kids estimating how much time they spend on social media (only on school days) and then forming statistical analysis on the averages to come up with an impact.  I take it you are familiar with the research of Andrew K. Przybylski? 

The plural of anecdote is not data mate.