Pyramid 2019/2020

[RobM]

9 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Boys in the West can't wait to get started in the Pyramid

I also believe a certain East Region Junior Chairman at the weekend referred to those clubs who left last season as "traitors".

They all exist in a weird Junior bubble.....

Even with the benefit of the East Junior 'diehards' (and I would've counted myself among them) testing the waters for them and coming out enthralled with life in the EoS they're fighting it!

That said they're moving in under the West Junior guys who control it at the moment going in frantically defending their empire as opposed to the fresh start we got in the East I suppose.

[Slaverysam]

Even with the benefit of the East Junior 'diehards' (and I would've counted myself among them) testing the waters for them and coming out enthralled with life in the EoS they're fighting it!

That said they're moving in under the West Junior guys who control it at the moment going in frantically defending their empire as opposed to the fresh start we got in the East I suppose.

Forget the west dinosaurs let them wallow and the rest of us will get on with getting on with it

[RobM]

16 hours ago, Slaverysam said:

Forget the west dinosaurs let them wallow and the rest of us will get on with getting on with it

I feel for the people over there that are entirely open for it and getting dragged down by these guys but largely agree.

[Pyramidic]

This just shows how much Junior football is lagging behind the EoSL at the moment:
 

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland/r49312/

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland-c/r49441/

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland-c/r49443/

There is even a page for the conference play-off finals:

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/championship-round---east/r49444/

 

I wonder how much the EoSL is earning from their fixtures on a prestige betting website like Soccerway?

[Ginaro]

8 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

I wonder how much the EoSL is earning from their fixtures on a prestige betting website like Soccerway?

I know where you are coming from - it's great for the new EOS clubs to be in the mainsteam football world - but Soccerway is just a database, not a betting website.

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

This just shows how much Junior football is lagging behind the EoSL at the moment:
 

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland/r49312/

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland-c/r49441/

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland-c/r49443/

There is even a page for the conference play-off finals:

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/championship-round---east/r49444/

 

I wonder how much the EoSL is earning from their fixtures on a prestige betting website like Soccerway?

I use Soccerway a lot, had no idea the EoS were on there!

[Pyramidic]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

I know where you are coming from - it's great for the new EOS clubs to be in the mainsteam football world - but Soccerway is just a database, not a betting website.

You are quite right Ginaro, Soccerway is an online football database that many punters use to access data for placing their bets.

http://www.league321.com/soccerway-featured-article.html

 

Here are some more examples:

BeSoccer.com:

https://www.besoccer.com/league_east_of_scotland/group1/round18

https://www.besoccer.com/league_east_of_scotland/group2/round18

https://www.besoccer.com/league_east_of_scotland/group3/round18

Scoresway.com:

http://www.scoresway.com/?sport=soccer&page=competition&id=1489

http://www.scoresway.com/?sport=soccer&page=round&id=49441

http://www.scoresway.com/?sport=soccer&page=round&id=49443

Persian/Iranian site:

http://stats.yariga.net/team-squad.php10525?sport=soccer&page=round&id=49443

http://stats.yariga.net/team-squad.php10525?sport=soccer&page=team&id=43907

French site:

https://www.matchendirect.fr/classement-foot/ecosse/classement-south-of-scotland.html

https://www.matchendirect.fr/equipe/blackburn-united-43907.html

Turkish sites:

https://www.mackolik.com/takim/musselburgh-athletic/maçlar/d24hr9kqayaawebewuhlt1une

https://www.mackolik.com/takim/blackburn-united/puan-durumu/a9cp9k3qkjt7h39kt8kxn3td6

https://www.sahadan.com/takim/blackburn-united/maçlar/a9cp9k3qkjt7h39kt8kxn3td6

Lots of languages:

https://www.goal.com/en-us/feeder-leagues/table/9edf0eouow31wxuyt4wzr4max

https://www.goal.com/en-us/team/linlithgow-rose/5s9zt4pljuyx56dnc5o35yjuh

https://www.goal.com/en-us/team/blackburn-united/a9cp9k3qkjt7h39kt8kxn3td6

Also info in Transfermarkt.com

https://www.transfermarkt.com/newtongrange-star-fc/transfers/verein/21795/

https://www.transfermarkt.com/penicuik-athletic/transfers/verein/6324/saison_id/2018

https://www.transfermarkt.com/bonnyrigg-rose-athletic-fc/transfers/verein/20603/saison_id/2018

Edited January 23, 2019 by Pyramidic

[San Starko Rover]

Time the governing body actually did something worthwhile for a change SJFA can stay as they are in their bubble but remove Scottish cup access to all except the SJFA cup winners (in line with SAFA).

Form WoS and NoS leagues and open it up to applicants, leagues will start once they have 12 teams, more than 16 use the conference system.

Only teams within the pyramid can hold an SFA licence, remove Girvan, Glasgow Uni, BOD and GS if they don’t want to play in the pyramid they shouldn’t be in the Scottish cup.

The SJFA within the pyramid is a joke you’re either Junior or Senior. Open the path with NoS and WoS leagues and I guarantee you’ll get the same as happened in the EoS and any that refuse to join can stay in the SJFA. Just make sure the door is always open to NoS, EoS, WoS and SoS no closed shop.

[Burnie_man]

Time the governing body actually did something worthwhile for a change SJFA can stay as they are in their bubble but remove Scottish cup access to all except the SJFA cup winners (in line with SAFA).

Form WoS and NoS leagues and open it up to applicants, leagues will start once they have 12 teams, more than 16 use the conference system.

Only teams within the pyramid can hold an SFA licence, remove Girvan, Glasgow Uni, BOD and GS if they don’t want to play in the pyramid they shouldn’t be in the Scottish cup.

The SJFA within the pyramid is a joke you’re either Junior or Senior. Open the path with NoS and WoS leagues and I guarantee you’ll get the same as happened in the EoS and any that refuse to join can stay in the SJFA. Just make sure the door is always open to NoS, EoS, WoS and SoS no closed shop.

That might happen naturally if the SJFA don't compromise on keeping their structure intact, which leads to them sitting outside the Pyramid for another season (a real possibility).

[Auld Heid]

5 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

Time the governing body actually did something worthwhile for a change SJFA can stay as they are in their bubble but remove Scottish cup access to all except the SJFA cup winners (in line with SAFA).

Form WoS and NoS leagues and open it up to applicants, leagues will start once they have 12 teams, more than 16 use the conference system.

Only teams within the pyramid can hold an SFA licence, remove Girvan, Glasgow Uni, BOD and GS if they don’t want to play in the pyramid they shouldn’t be in the Scottish cup.

The SJFA within the pyramid is a joke you’re either Junior or Senior. Open the path with NoS and WoS leagues and I guarantee you’ll get the same as happened in the EoS and any that refuse to join can stay in the SJFA. Just make sure the door is always open to NoS, EoS, WoS and SoS no closed shop.

As much as the SJFA are a joke of an organisation.  Their current 3 Region arrangement is a  comprehensive set-up covering nearly all Scotland (South of Scotland maybe being the exception). 

The pyramid currently is the LL (fed by EoS & SoS) and HL (closed shop).   Nothing really in place for the WoS  (Ayrshire aren't going to play EoS or SoS) or Tayside (Tayside clubs aren't going to play HL).

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

As much as the SJFA are a joke of an organisation.  Their current 3 Region arrangement is a  comprehensive set-up covering nearly all Scotland (South of Scotland maybe being the exception). 

The pyramid currently is the LL (fed by EoS & SoS) and HL (closed shop).   Nothing really in place for the WoS  (Ayrshire aren't going to play EoS or SoS) or Tayside (Tayside clubs aren't going to play HL).

 

They play highland league or they won't get anywhere.

 

[Enigma]

A three way split below SPFL2 always made more sense imo. Even if Tayside are forced into the HL area the LL in years to come will be a lot stronger.

[GordonS]

A three way split below SPFL2 always made more sense imo. Even if Tayside are forced into the HL area the LL in years to come will be a lot stronger.

Those in danger of being relegated into it don't want it.

We all have our ideal structures - I agree with you about three leagues at tier 5 - but the key to getting the pyramid to happen is to work with what the existing members can live with.

[Cameron Wilson]

2 hours ago, Enigma said:

A three way split below SPFL2 always made more sense imo. Even if Tayside are forced into the HL area the LL in years to come will be a lot stronger.

Maybe a four way split would be better. When the HL / LL boundary was drawn, presumably they did it based on the spread of the clubs in the pyramid at that time. Which was 12 teams in the Lowland League, mostly in the east, plus very roughly 30 teams split between EoS and SoS - minus reserve sides. The majority of these teams probably in no danger of ever making it up to SPFL2. Even at that point, in terms of numbers alone, teams at tier 5 and below, and south of the dividing line were roughly twice as many as those north of it so it was already quite unbalanced from the start.

Things have changed a lot since then and the imbalance is even more pronounced with the influx of former juniors - a fair few of whom have the potential to feature in League 2 in the not too distant future which may relegate SPFL2 teams north of the line into the HL. And as Enigma says its only going to become more imbalanced.

A Tayside league at Tier 5 might be a better solution which would mean not moving the divide at the same time as keeping travel distances down. It would also provide a more palatable option for the likes of Montrose or other Angus sides if they got relegated, and be attractive for East Juniors North of the Tay. 

Below the Tay, if the west juniors entered the pyramid, there would be enough depth to have a LL east and west. The issue then would be how to work out who gets promoted to SPFL2 whilst taking the relative size and strength of each league into account. A straight semi final playoff between the champions of LL east and west, HL and Tayside leagues doesn't seem to be fair on the LL teams given they will be much more in number.

With four regions at tier 5 there would need to be room for teams close to the dividing lines to change regions if necessary to balance leagues up after promotions and relegation, similar to how its done in England.

There's the question of the SoS - would it be content to slot in at a lower tier under the LL west somewhere? Also there would obviously not be enough teams to set up a Tayside league without the East Juniors so a lot would depend on them agreeing to split with south of the Tay East Juniors before this could even get off the ground.

Ultimately its very difficult to see any workable pyramid solution which doesnt see the south of the Tay East Juniors joining the EoS and that appears to be one of the biggest problems at the moment. Honestly the best thing right now would be if Fauldhouse decided to make the switch and set off another domino effect. Absolute tipping point for the whole East region is not far off.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Cameron Wilson

[AlanCamelonfan]

37 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Maybe a four way split would be better. When the HL / LL boundary was drawn, presumably they did it based on the spread of the clubs in the pyramid at that time. Which was 12 teams in the Lowland League, mostly in the east, plus very roughly 30 teams split between EoS and SoS - minus reserve sides. The majority of these teams probably in no danger of ever making it up to SPFL2. Even at that point, in terms of numbers alone, teams at tier 5 and below, and south of the dividing line were roughly twice as many as those north of it so it was already quite unbalanced from the start.

Things have changed a lot since then and the imbalance is even more pronounced with the influx of former juniors - a fair few of whom have the potential to feature in League 2 in the not too distant future which may relegate SPFL2 teams north of the line into the HL. And as Enigma says its only going to become more imbalanced.

A Tayside league at Tier 5 might be a better solution which would mean not moving the divide at the same time as keeping travel distances down. It would also provide a more palatable option for the likes of Montrose or other Angus sides if they got relegated, and be attractive for East Juniors North of the Tay. 

Below the Tay, if the west juniors entered the pyramid, there would be enough depth to have a LL east and west. The issue then would be how to work out who gets promoted to SPFL2 whilst taking the relative size and strength of each league into account. A straight semi final playoff between the champions of LL east and west, HL and Tayside leagues doesn't seem to be fair on the LL teams given they will be much more in number.

With four regions at tier 5 there would need to be room for teams close to the dividing lines to change regions if necessary to balance leagues up after promotions and relegation, similar to how its done in England.

There's the question of the SoS - would it be content to slot in at a lower tier under the LL west somewhere? Also there would obviously not be enough teams to set up a Tayside league without the East Juniors so a lot would depend on them agreeing to split with south of the Tay East Juniors before this could even get off the ground.

Ultimately its very difficult to see any workable pyramid solution which doesnt see the south of the Tay East Juniors joining the EoS and that appears to be one of the biggest problems at the moment. Honestly the best thing right now would be if Fauldhouse decided to make the switch and set off another domino effect. Absolute tipping point for the whole East region is not far off.

Complete rubbish. Tayside clubs be lucky if about 3 of them could get licenced and you are wanting to put them in at tier 5. Tier 5 isn't the problem. Tier 6 is

[Cameron Wilson]

34 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Complete rubbish. Tayside clubs be lucky if about 3 of them could get licenced and you are wanting to put them in at tier 5. Tier 5 isn't the problem. Tier 6 is

It's not rubbish whatsoever. There is no idea solution and there needs to be different approaches considered to deal with Scotland's bizarre geography. Particularly as the pyramid situation is changing as more teams enter making the original HL/LL divide not as straightforward as it was.

Only a few clubs could get licensed? Then few would be eligible for promotion to SPFL2. If that meant there wasn't much movement out of one particular division of tier 5, so be it.  In non-league, geography matters as much as the actual tier number.

It is desirable to require all teams in tier  5 to be licensed, but is that actually really necessary? Ultimately it's the league that licensing is vital for.

The reason for suggesting a Tayside league at tier 5 is to give relegated north of the Tay teams an alternative to the HL. Ultimately it could depend  on whether the likes of Montrose would find playing in unlicensed east Junior grounds preferable to licensed HL ones.

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

It's not rubbish whatsoever. There is no idea solution and there needs to be different approaches considered to deal with Scotland's bizarre geography. Particularly as the pyramid situation is changing as more teams enter making the original HL/LL divide not as straightforward as it was.

Only a few clubs could get licensed? Then few would be eligible for promotion to SPFL2. If that meant there wasn't much movement out of one particular division of tier 5, so be it.  In non-league, geography matters as much as the actual tier number.

It is desirable to require all teams in tier  5 to be licensed, but is that actually really necessary? Ultimately it's the league that licensing is vital for.

The reason for suggesting a Tayside league at tier 5 is to give relegated north of the Tay teams an alternative to the HL. Ultimately it could depend  on whether the likes of Montrose would find playing in unlicensed east Junior grounds preferable to licensed HL ones.

There isn't going to be three regions at tier 5 anytime soon, and there definitely wont ever be four.

There may be a chance of three regions if the Lowland League at tier 5 splits west and east, and is full of Licenced clubs. Maybe at that point the SPFL would consider it but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.

Re Licencing, I'd say within 5 years there will be a requirement to be Licenced at tier 6.

[AlanCamelonfan]

30 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

It's not rubbish whatsoever. There is no idea solution and there needs to be different approaches considered to deal with Scotland's bizarre geography. Particularly as the pyramid situation is changing as more teams enter making the original HL/LL divide not as straightforward as it was.

Only a few clubs could get licensed? Then few would be eligible for promotion to SPFL2. If that meant there wasn't much movement out of one particular division of tier 5, so be it.  In non-league, geography matters as much as the actual tier number.

It is desirable to require all teams in tier  5 to be licensed, but is that actually really necessary? Ultimately it's the league that licensing is vital for.

The reason for suggesting a Tayside league at tier 5 is to give relegated north of the Tay teams an alternative to the HL. Ultimately it could depend  on whether the likes of Montrose would find playing in unlicensed east Junior grounds preferable to licensed HL ones.

It's pie in the sky. Licensing is there for a reason.  Two leagues at tier 5 is adequate. 3 maybe but I think it's like a chain. National to league 2. Semi national at tier 5. Tier 6 region wide 

[LongTimeLurker]

16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

...Re Licencing, I'd say within 5 years there will be a requirement to be Licenced at tier 6.

That probably all depends on LL2 happening, because it won't happen if the SoS league is still at tier 6.

[FairWeatherFan]

53 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

The reason for suggesting a Tayside league at tier 5 is to give relegated north of the Tay teams an alternative to the HL. Ultimately it could depend  on whether the likes of Montrose would find playing in unlicensed east Junior grounds preferable to licensed HL ones.

Dundee, Dundee United, Arbroath, Forfar Athletic, Montrose and Brechin City are the only SPFL clubs North of the Tay but not from the traditional Highland League footprint. The Dundee clubs are unlikely to ever fall to Tier 5, Montrose Roselea chose to move to the North Region so I don't see why Montrose couldn't manage in the Highland League. So you're basically creating an entire league at Tier 5 for 3 clubs.

You don't need a Tier 5 Tayside League, you need one at Tier 6 under the Highland League. Eventually the geography of the Highland League will change a fair bit and become more North Eastern based. As you would have Tayside and the largely Aberdeenshire dominated North Juniors feeding into it.