Pyramid 2019/2020

[honestman54]

7 minutes ago, morley said:

Worth remembering that email from the SFA last May when the last attempt to reach agreement failed. In particular the guidance from the sfa they only want around 64 clubs across Scotland at tier 6. So with 32 already at tier 6 (EOS premier and SOS), and presuming there needs to be an option left open for a highland league region tier 6, that would suggest there can only be scope for about another 16 teams at tier 6 presumably in the West. So that would suggest the SFA will not support the SJFA option z as that would likely take tier 6 way beyond the 64 the Sfa say they can manage at that level. 

If that was the case would it not still be only 16 in a tier 6 as the rest of the league/divisions come in at Tiers 7, 8 and 9?

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

I think a key line of argument will be Rod Petrie's mantra of last year when discussing this at the EoS meeting:

"No one should be forced to play in a league they don't want to".

That was repeated ad infinitum.

If he was serious about that, and if I were the LL reps I would parrot that back as a key part of the proposal, supporting Rods belief. We know there are plenty of teams in the West who want nothing to do with the pyramid.

Follows that to meet that requirement the only way forward is a new WoS league in the pyramid, the SJFA outside of it and everyone is free to choose where they want to play, no one is forced to go where they don't want to.

Job done.

That's what I'm wanting to hear happen. Look at all the South of Tay clubs that chose not to join the EoS. The 4 clubs that joined the sjfa instead of the EoS. There's a place for the sjfa and its outside of the pyramid.

Then make the SFA come up with a NOSFL in the North.

[Salvo Montalbano]

If that was the case would it not still be only 16 in a tier 6 as the rest of the league/divisions come in at Tiers 7, 8 and 9?

Tier 5 - Lowland League
Tier 6 - South of Scotland League, East of Scotland Premier League, Potential Highland League 2/North Juniors/Whatever.

If each of these leagues are capped at 16, that is 48 clubs and allows space for 16 more (West of Scotland League or WSJFA Super League). It wouldn't leave room for 32 clubs (WSJFA and ESJFA Super Leagues).

Tier 7, 8, etc would be the East of Scotland Divisions below the Premier and any West Junior Leagues below the Super League/leagues below a new WoS League.

[honestman54]

3 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Tier 5 - Lowland League
Tier 6 - South of Scotland League, East of Scotland Premier League, Potential Highland League 2/North Juniors/Whatever.

If each of these leagues are capped at 16, that is 48 clubs and allows space for 16 more (West of Scotland League or WSJFA Super League). It wouldn't leave room for 32 clubs (WSJFA and ESJFA Super Leagues).

Tier 7, 8, etc would be the East of Scotland Divisions below the Premier and any West Junior Leagues below the Super League/leagues below a new WoS League.

Indeed, thats what I thought it would be.

[morley]

2 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Tier 5 - Lowland League
Tier 6 - South of Scotland League, East of Scotland Premier League, Potential Highland League 2/North Juniors/Whatever.

If each of these leagues are capped at 16, that is 48 clubs and allows space for 16 more (West of Scotland League or WSJFA Super League). It wouldn't leave room for 32 clubs (WSJFA and ESJFA Super Leagues).

Tier 7, 8, etc would be the East of Scotland Divisions below the Premier and any West Junior Leagues below the Super League/leagues below a new WoS League.

Exactly, and that same SFA email also clarified that they see it as a league table and not an organisation which sits at a particulat tier position as you point out. 

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, morley said:

Worth remembering that email from the SFA last May when the last attempt to reach agreement failed. In particular the guidance from the sfa they only want around 64 clubs across Scotland at tier 6. So with 32 already at tier 6 (EOS premier and SOS), and presuming there needs to be an option left open for a highland league region tier 6, that would suggest there can only be scope for about another 16 teams at tier 6 presumably in the West. So that would suggest the SFA will not support the SJFA option z as that would likely take tier 6 way beyond the 64 the Sfa say they can manage at that level. 

The SFA's understanding of football outside of the SPFL has always been at best spotty. In that same Maxwell mentioned the SOS had 18 clubs for instance.

I don't think they necessarily realise they already perform their role in disciplinary for the lower divisions of the EoS.

Therefore would have to take on that commitment the more it grows. So why not other leagues as well.

[GNU_Linux]

OK from what I understand..............
LL proposed WoSFL as expected. EoS backed it. LL opposed "option Z"
TJ opposed WoSFL as expected saying none of his members were interested in moving to a senior league.
TJ opposed WRJFA entering themselves as it was “all-in or none in” at tier 6.
LL opposed SJFA entering en-masse.
Petrie closed meeting by saying no point in further PWG meetings as going round in circles.
Stalemate. No further PWG arranged at his point.
So those clubs in the west who are very interested but have kept their heads down so far, you’re going to have to start making a noise if that is what you want.  I suspect the LL/EoS will still help get a league off the ground for next season and run it if it is shown that there is a demand and TJ is talking pish.   The only other options are for the WRJFA to go their own way, or clubs join the SoS/EoS.
The SJFA aren’t going to take you into the Pyramid next season, or perhaps ever.

[Dev]

After the recent performance of the west juniors hierarchy this is the SJFA shooting themselves in the other foot - just to make sure that anyone can see that they are not fit for purpose!

Time for LL/EoS/SoS to make things happen for the good of semi-pro football. These leagues have the necessary abilities and experience to get this off the ground.

[ArnieGer]

Perfect solution. Have a Lowland League West at tier 5,WOSFL at tier 6,7 etc. 

LLW winners enter a draw with LLE,HFL and Tier 4 club for semi-final play-offs,then the two winners play in the final. Simple

[never been to scotland]

There is no point even discussing a LLW until there is a WOS league running with mostly licensed members.

[Cyclizine]

54 minutes ago, ArnieGer said:

Perfect solution. Have a Lowland League West at tier 5,WOSFL at tier 6,7 etc. 

LLW winners enter a draw with LLE,HFL and Tier 4 club for semi-final play-offs,then the two winners play in the final. Simple

Amazing! I'm surprised no-one ever thought of this before!

[Pyramidic]

There have been interesting discussions on here about LL2 and the WoSFL options.

Another way forward would be to amalgamate LL and EoSFL (should be easy given their current linkages).

The EoSFL would then become the LL Eastern Conference.  A complimentary LL Western Conference could be formed and teams invited to move over from the WRJFA.

This might be the alternative option to follow if the SFA should decide to block the formation of a WoSFL.

It would simplify matters and give the LL control of the whole process (with exception of SoSFL).

The SoSFL could link in lower down the pyramid.

[Guest]

Perfect solution. Have a Lowland League West at tier 5,WOSFL at tier 6,7 etc. 
LLW winners enter a draw with LLE,HFL and Tier 4 club for semi-final play-offs,then the two winners play in the final. Simple

In the furore that's surrounded this I'm unsure if you are taking the proverbial or you think this is genuinely a good, simple idea?

If you are genuine, I'd go and read up on things and you might get the impression the LL have said, numerous times now, they aren't splitting east and west.

[Burnie_man]

What's happening in the west will finally put to rest the ERJFA's belief they can get in at tier 6 (or anywhere), which was never happening anyway.

Hopefully it prompts more applications for next season beyond the one already received.

[Black & Red Socks]

15 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

What's happening in the west will finally put to rest the ERJFA's belief they can get in at tier 6 (or anywhere), which was never happening anyway.

Hopefully it prompts more applications for next season beyond the one already received.

Wilful misrepresentation by the SJFA and the ERSJFA lead clubs in the east to believe that Tier 6 Pyramid football would be delivered to their 'Super League' clubs. It was never, ever, ever going to happen - as was endlessly pointed out here and in the Juniors forum. But was that all that stood in the way of the rump of the east Juniors moving to the EoSFL? I'm not entirely sure. It would appear, certainly from opinion presented here and elsewhere, that the parochial nature of the remaining clubs - or at least some on their committees - continues, alongside an enmity for those clubs who have already made the move, particularly from clubs in West Lothian it would seem. Will continued embitterment and a refusal to look above the horizon and to the future hamstring these clubs forever and condemn them to nothing more than the glorified amateur leagues that they are currently playing in?

The likes of Bathgate Thistle, Fauldhouse United, Whitburn and Armadale Thistle in particular really should have the vision to move, but then again they never had that vision when Tier 6 football was on offer and now, in all likelihood and in all fairness to the present EoSFL clubs, it will be Tier 7 at best but, perhaps more likely, Tier 8 football that is being offered. No ones fault but their own of course. Maybe the likes of Stoneyburn and West Calder United should be showing the way by applying to the EoSFL and reinvigorating interest in their clubs in the process?

[bigwullieac]

Moving away from the circular nonsense about Juniors joining at tier 5/6 or whatever theres also serious discussions still to be had about the farce that is promotion to the LL and the relegation/promotion situation between tier 4 and 5.  I think Max Christie is totally spot on here.

https://centralfm.co.uk/sportcentral/

[PerthFan]

Ersjfa has always been the problem. They don’t want to be below the EOS and have a real hatred of the clubs that left so are trying to crowbar into tier 6 to save face.
Best thing for the east would be a hasty demise. Let the teams that want in the pyramid shift to eos and the rest can either muddle along in a much reduced junior league or simply go amateur.

[Tutankhamen]

1 minute ago, PerthFan said:

Ersjfa has always been the problem. They don’t want to be below the EOS and have a real hatred of the clubs that left so are trying to crowbar into tier 6 to save face.
Best thing for the east would be a hasty demise. Let the teams that want in the pyramid shift to eos and the rest can either muddle along in a much reduced junior league or simply go amateur.

And the last Junior game you were at was?

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, bigwullieac said:

Moving away from the circular nonsense about Juniors joining at tier 5/6 or whatever theres also serious discussions still to be had about the farce that is promotion to the LL and the relegation/promotion situation between tier 4 and 5.  I think Max Christie is totally spot on here.

https://centralfm.co.uk/sportcentral/

Certainly the LL are looking for automatic relegation for SPFL42.

As for two up and two down from the Lowland to tier 6. That's probably coming, but has been tied up by the farce of the PWG. We're going to have to see how things play out.

[Marshmallo]

12 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Certainly the LL are looking for automatic relegation for SPFL42.

As for two up and two down from the Lowland to tier 6. That's probably coming, but has been tied up by the farce of the PWG. We're going to have to see how things play out.

Both of those points are as scandalous as the lack of West Juniors in the pyramid. There should be 2 down from League 2 and at least 2 down from the LL, preferably 3.