Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, HTG said: It isn't a question of auditing. Football performance is based on facts and outcomes. The most recent Lowland League application sought confirmation across a range of areas - performance outcomes over the last 3 seasons, fit with current licence criteria, community engagement and future strategy. It wouldn't be difficult to develop a more holistic view of both governance and performance if one were required. But your ability or otherwise to kick a ball round a football pitch shouldn't have any impact whatsoever if you want a licence to enable you to enter the national cup competition, which is a side effect of what Auld Heid is wanting. Most clubs going for licences (now and in future) wont ever trouble tier 5 or above. I think the LL application form is fair in what it asks as it is a merit based process. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Cowden Cowboy said: Yes all right we know that's your hobby horse. Meantime back in the real world sensible changes are worked through over time. On the SFA front - few organisations would admit a huge number of new members who could take over control from the existing membership which had built it up over many, many years. That IS the real world, clubs are suffering right now because of it. You're on the other side of the fence helping to build it of course, you're part of the problem. Sensible changes do not include changing licence criteria halfway through the process and refusing derogation. Sensible changes do not include restricting voting rights in order to protect the status quo. It stinks, and you know it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: I also understand there is a resolution to come before the SFA AGM to ensure all new members are regarded as "associate members" and not bona fide full members unless they are tier 5 or above, removing their voting rights. Worrying thing on that front is the SPFL & HFL will probably vote that as they don't have anything to worry about with no Tier 6 in the North and the SPFL having minimal risk of relegation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just now, Burnie_man said: That IS the real world, clubs are suffering right now because of it. You're on the other side of the fence helping to build it of course, you're part of the problem. Sensible changes do not include changing licence criteria halfway through the process and refusing derogation. Sensible changes do not include restricting voting rights in order to protect the status quo. It stinks, and you know it. That's really your view pretty much as a zealot. On the SFA voting rights - that would seem a sensible enough change by the members of any organisation in respect of maintaining stability. You are suggesting that potentially say a newly set up Tier 8 club who get SFA membership/licence should have the same voting power as Celtic? Given in the SPFL there is weighted voting for a number of issues such that L1/L2 clubs can't outvote the Premier clubs on key issues (eg changing share of TV monies) - it is hardly the sort of scandalous matter you suggest. But again I cant see much point in arguing with you as your mind is completely closed unless your model is the 'one'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: On the SFA front - few organisations would admit a huge number of new members who could take over control from the existing membership which had built it up over many, many years. Indeed. The Labour Party did, with disastrous results. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: That's really your view pretty much as a zealot. On the SFA voting rights - that would seem a sensible enough change by the members of any organisation in respect of maintaining stability. You are suggesting that potentially say a newly set up Tier 8 club who get SFA membership/licence should have the same voting power as Celtic? Given in the SPFL there is weighted voting for a number of issues such that L1/L2 clubs can't outvote the Premier clubs on key issues (eg changing share of TV monies) - it is hardly the sort of scandalous matter you suggest. But again I cant see much point in arguing with you as your mind is completely closed unless your model is the 'one'. Zealot? I think you need to take a look in a mirror. You are the one supportive of a closed shop mentality which harms our game. You mention weighted voting rights, what is being proposed for new members is NO voting rights whatsoever for clubs below a certain level. This is sadly a sign of the SPFL's increasing influence over our national association. They are scared of admitting new members, and that's a disgrace. SCOTLAND UNITED: A 2020 VISION. The Scottish FA is trusted to lead the country's national sport with integrity and innovation, fostering a culture of performance, unity and trust. The SFA's own words.. Where is the integrity and trust in denying clubs licences after moving the goalposts during the process? where is the integrity in denying new members a voice? the SFA/SPFL are more interested in protecting what they have than developing the game and opening up, and that comes at the behest of clubs. I'm not the one with a closed mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Worrying thing on that front is the SPFL & HFL will probably vote that as they don't have anything to worry about with no Tier 6 in the North and the SPFL having minimal risk of relegation. Any vote for this proposal is against the long term interest of our game, and a vote for the short term interests of the SPFL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Zealot? I think you need to take a look in a mirror. You are the one supportive of a closed shop mentality which harms our game. You mention weighted voting rights, what is being proposed for new members is NO voting rights whatsoever for clubs below a certain level. This is sadly a sign of the SPFL's increasing influence over our national association. They are scared of admitting new members, and that's a disgrace. SCOTLAND UNITED: A 2020 VISION. The Scottish FA is trusted to lead the country's national sport with integrity and innovation, fostering a culture of performance, unity and trust. The SFA's own words.. Where is the integrity and trust in denying clubs licences after moving the goalposts during the process? where is the integrity in denying new members a voice? the SFA/SPFL are more interested in protecting what they have than developing the game and opening up, and that comes at the behest of clubs. I'm not the one with a closed mind. Aye aye 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just now, Cowden Cowboy said: Aye aye No answer, no surprise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Any vote for this proposal is against the long term interest of our game, and a vote for the short term interests of the SPFL. It's seems especially daft setting it as Tier 5 when the SPFL have been out proposing SPFL3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just now, Burnie_man said: No answer, no surprise. There is no answer because I know I am wasting my time debating with you 'he who knows the shining path'. It's like debating with a Brexiteer. So politely I wont jump to your tune in fruitless debate -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said: It's seems especially daft setting it as Tier 5 when the SPFL have been out proposing SPFL3. That's why all non-league clubs should be wary, very wary. I suspect the natural extension of this proposal is to begin restricting payments and access to the Scottish Cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just now, Cowden Cowboy said: There is no answer because I know I am wasting my time debating with you 'he who knows the shining path'. It's like debating with a Brexiteer. So politely I wont jump to your tune in fruitless debate Ah, reverting to playing the man and not the ball, right oh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowden Cowboy Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: It's seems especially daft setting it as Tier 5 when the SPFL have been out proposing SPFL3. SPFL 3 doesn't have any meaningful support or momentum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: SPFL 3 doesn't have any meaningful support or momentum Still an idea. Also Tier 5 is 17-16 right now with the Highland League open to being a 20 team league. The Lowland League is restricted to 16. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Meanwhile up north Press & Journal reports HL clubs meet on Monday to decide between 4 options, namely: (1) invite Banks o'Dee to join; (2) invite Inverness Caledonian Thistle 'B' to join; (3) invite no-one at all to join; and (4) invite anyone to join - but only in 12 months time via applications like in 2009 (presumably it'd be dependant on Cove, Elgin or Brechin not coming down and putting them back to 18). It doesn't say how they will decide, but presumably not by a single straight vote as in theory as few as 5 clubs could win the day. Disappointing to see possibilities of admitting a 'B' team, IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Still an idea. Also Tier 5 is 17-16 right now with the Highland League open to being a 20 team league. The Lowland League is restricted to 16. Remove voting rights (associate membership) for new members SPFL introduce League 3 filling tier 5 SFA Board downgrade existing full members to associate members below tier 5 SPFL run the SFA. It's not as far fetched as it sounds. This motion lays the groundwork for much more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Remove voting rights (associate membership) for new members SPFL introduce League 3 filling tier 5 SFA Board downgrade existing full members to associate members below tier 5 SPFL run the SFA. It's not as far fetched as it sounds. This motion lays the groundwork for much more. Even if the SPFL3 isn't fully on board. You've also seen plans by the SPFL to increase their membership by increasing league sizes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said: Meanwhile up norh At least they're being proactive about it for a change. The 2009 is a tad misleading in that they never invited anyone back then. Formartine applied, Turriff applied and then the Highland League set a deadline on applications for the 2009-10 season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just now, FairWeatherFan said: Even if the SPFL3 isn't fully on board. You've also seen plans by the SPFL to increase their membership by increasing league sizes. There's various ways, and with Maxwell, Doncaster, Petrie and Mulraney already on the Board (and the PGB), that is the way it is headed. Ultimately, they want a bigger slice of the cake out of the SFA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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