Burnie_man Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 If the boundary remains, this is how it could look with WL and Fife clubs added from ERJFA TIER 6 EoS Premier Bo'ness Utd Broxburn Athletic Camelon Juniors Crossgates Primrose Dunbar Utd Dundonald Bluebell Hill of Beath Jeanfield Swifts Leith Athletic Musselburgh Athletic Newtongrange Star Penicuik Athletic Preston Athletic Sauchie Tranent Juniors Whitehill Welfare TIER 7 EoS Champ Armadale Thistle Bathgate Thistle Blackburn Utd Fauldhouse Utd Pumpherston Whitburn Arniston Rangers Dalkeith Thistle Easthouses Lily Haddington Athletic Lothian Thistle HV Glenrothes Kennoway Hearts St.Andrews Utd Tayport Thornton Hibs EoS Loth/Bord TIER 8 EoS Fife/Edinburgh Livingston Utd Craigroyston West Calder Utd Edinburgh Utd Harthill Royal Heriot Watt Stoneyburn Tynecastle Ormiston Burntisland Shipyard Hawick RA Inverkeithing HS Tweedmouth Rangers Kirkcaldy YM Eyemouth Utd Lochgelly Albert Coldstream Lochore Welfare Peebles Rovers Newburgh Dunipace Oakley Utd Stirling Uni EoS Rosyth Sygenta (Grangemouth) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Journeyman Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I did say for illustration purposes[emoji106] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason King Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 37 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: But the harsh reality is the bigger clubs would benefit from having a competitve league for their younger players to develop. With you and Gordon continually trying to do down the league you are in there really are some hideous mewling quims in the Linlithgow support. How exactly would the Bigot Brothers reserves playing the likes of Berwick or Albion Rovers develop the younger players? I know the pair of you are Old Firm fans who like to post here about your Wee Team but come on, have some balls and see this for the completely horrific idea that it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 If the boundary line doesn’t change, what would it take for the EoS premier next year to absorb some of the East Superleague teams? Potentially have the top five from each conference (15) minus the champion ( into LL). This leaves 14 teams, add in the top 4 from the Superleague - (below the boundary line) and you’ve an 18 team league for next season. The teams below the premier and the premier from the juniors then create regional leagues below that. Potentially 13/14 team leagues - again for one season. Season 20/21 could then have a 16 team EoS premier, then a first division and then a north and south underneath that. I appreciate that this is another season where some teams are in transition (those in the three regional leagues) but the games would be a lot more competitive than this season with everyone having something to battle for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, surely not! said: If the boundary line doesn’t change, what would it take for the EoS premier next year to absorb some of the East Superleague teams? Potentially have the top five from each conference (15) minus the champion ( into LL). This leaves 14 teams, add in the top 4 from the Superleague - (below the boundary line) and you’ve an 18 team league for next season. The teams below the premier and the premier from the juniors then create regional leagues below that. Potentially 13/14 team leagues - again for one season. Season 20/21 could then have a 16 team EoS premier, then a first division and then a north and south underneath that. I appreciate that this is another season where some teams are in transition (those in the three regional leagues) but the games would be a lot more competitive than this season with everyone having something to battle for. The EoS Premier will be made-up of teams from the Conferences, if there is any shortfall in numbers the best 6th placed finisher(s) also enter. It will be a 16 team league next season come what may. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Auld Heid said: Including Colt teams - may not appeal to some. But the harsh reality is the bigger clubs would benefit from having a competitve league for their younger players to develop. The longer the PWG members argue amongst themselves the more credible the suggestion may become - because it's a solution ready to go. Pretty sure it won't be long before the SFA get fed up with the lack of progress with the PWG and faced with pressure for introducing Colt Teams may be swayed by Bigger Clubs. That may be true, and I could accept colts in the pyramid, at appropriate levels and done the right way. This isn't it. It's appalling that all the talk is only of the OF's colts, rather than it being done on merit. In last season's SPFL Development League the top 2 were Hibs and Dundee; Celtic finished 6th and Rangers weren't in it at all. The previous season, Celtic were 3rd and Rangers 6th. Hibs and Hamilton Accies have at least as strong a case as Celtic, and many clubs such as Ross County are ahead of Rangers on youth development. Putting colts in the Challenge Cup has highlighted how uncompetitive they are, and how little they bring to the table for everyone else. Slotting them in above the current tier 5 would be a gross overestimation of their ability. If it has to be done, I'd say it should be done by giving the top 2 in the development league a place in play-offs to get into the Tier 6 league in their area. Bleed them in gradually, and find out how good the actually are. I think the better non-league sides like Talbot or Bonnyrigg would regularly rag-doll them. It's also very bad timing. I can appreciate that from their ignorant, top-down view that the SPFL might see the evolution of the pyramid as the time to feed the colts in, but in practice it would have a strong disincentive effect on those we're trying to bring into the structure. My other major problem is a 10-team league. There's a strong case for smaller leagues in the top 2-3 tiers of Scottish football, but below full-time level that rationale falls away pretty quickly as the difference in standard flattens out. The SPFL seem to have a fixation with 10-team leagues, and don't seem to have noticed that nobody in non-league seniors or juniors plays their opponents more than twice in a standard league season. 5 minutes ago, gogsy said: Oops, 8. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Burnie_man said: If the boundary remains, this is how it could look with WL and Fife clubs added from ERJFA TIER 6 EoS Premier Bo'ness Utd Broxburn Athletic Camelon Juniors Crossgates Primrose Dunbar Utd Dundonald Bluebell Hill of Beath Jeanfield Swifts Leith Athletic Musselburgh Athletic Newtongrange Star Penicuik Athletic Preston Athletic Sauchie Tranent Juniors Whitehill Welfare TIER 7 EoS Champ Armadale Thistle Bathgate Thistle Blackburn Utd Fauldhouse Utd Pumpherston Whitburn Arniston Rangers Dalkeith Thistle Easthouses Lily Haddington Athletic Lothian Thistle HV Glenrothes Kennoway Hearts St.Andrews Utd Tayport Thornton Hibs EoS Loth/Bord TIER 8 EoS Fife/Edinburgh Livingston Utd Craigroyston West Calder Utd Edinburgh Utd Harthill Royal Heriot Watt Stoneyburn Tynecastle Ormiston Burntisland Shipyard Hawick RA Inverkeithing HS Tweedmouth Rangers Kirkcaldy YM Eyemouth Utd Lochgelly Albert Coldstream Lochore Welfare Peebles Rovers Newburgh Dunipace Oakley Utd Stirling Uni EoS Rosyth Sygenta (Grangemouth) Without boundary changes, and they might not be coming anytime soon, then I think I may have posted before that this is exactly what the EoSFL and the remaining ERSJFA teams from Fife & West Lothian should be aiming to come together and create. The renewal of old rivalries for ex and incoming Juniors and the addition of some new opponents for all.....and all achieved in a proper structure already aligned to the Scottish Football Pyramid. Another transitional season may indeed be required to achieve exactly this but the EoSFL board have proven themselves eminently capable of handling such transition in an elegant and successful way. Travel in the Lothians/Border League at Tier 8 might be greater than desired so some tweaking may be required but, really, what's not to like about the overall concept? Whether or not the ERSJFA are arriving as part of the Pyramid next season - and it still seems highly unlikely given the sensible and consistent opposition of the EoSFL to geographically overlapping leagues - all it will take is a club or two from West Lothian or, indeed, Fife to see the sense in all of this to start a trickle to the EoSFL that would quickly become a tide. It really does make sense. Edited February 20, 2019 by Black & Red Socks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 The EoS Premier will be made-up of teams from the Conferences, if there is any shortfall in numbers the best 6th placed finisher(s) also enter. It will be a 16 team league next season come what may. I hear what you’re saying and why, I was merely offering an alternative that integrates the juniors into the EoS without them having to start at the bottom. Easy for us to say they should start at the bottom of the EoS, but seems the SFA may not be looking to force that. My suggestion basically was one that I felt could keep both sides of the argument relatively happy- Boundary line dependent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, surely not! said: I hear what you’re saying and why, I was merely offering an alternative that integrates the juniors into the EoS without them having to start at the bottom. Easy for us to say they should start at the bottom of the EoS, but seems the SFA may not be looking to force that. My suggestion basically was one that I felt could keep both sides of the argument relatively happy- Boundary line dependent Well as it currently stands, any new applicant to the EoS for next season will join at tier 7, below the Premier. The EoS are prepared to have another transitional season of Conferences in order to accommodate new applicants rather than go Premier - First - Second with new clubs joining at tier 8 (Second). Clubs aren't going to be happy with new applicants jumping over them into a Premier League, and rightly so. If there ever was a merger, that's a different matter but it would take a year to get going as clubs need to know what they need to do and where they would end up in a new merged structure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Well as it currently stands, any new applicant to the EoS for next season will join at tier 7, below the Premier. The EoS are prepared to have another transitional season of Conferences in order to accommodate new applicants rather than go Premier - First - Second with new clubs joining at tier 8 (Second). Clubs aren't going to be happy with new applicants jumping over them into a Premier League, and rightly so. If there ever was a merger, that's a different matter but it would take a year to get going as clubs need to know what they need to do and where they would end up in a new merged structure. Spot on Burnie, only thing I would add is that clubs not in the premier for next year, expecting to be in Teir 7, also won't be happy if others come in above them and they end up from nowhere bring relegated 2 levels. Dropping two league's, rather than the one we are expecting would severely impact us as a club. I doubt we'd be the only ones who feel that way. I don't see the EoS agreeing to that, they are too well run and far too sensible. I'm all in favour of accepting the ERSJFA teams into the fold, but that can't be to the detriment of any of the clubs currently in the picture and to be fair, wherever possible not to the detriment of the ERSJFA either. Given there's currently no promotion available from ERSJFA super, strip out all north of the dividing line clubs and everyone in the East who doesn't qualify for the premier comes in at Teir 7, including ERSJFA and new applicants. Run conferences with as many teams in each to make it even (as close to 16 as possible), probably equate to 3 conferences again. 3 up/3 down, with a playoff place for fourth bottom and the second placed teams in each conference. Relegated teams and any Top fives that don't go up via playoffs, championship for the season after, plus whatever else required to make 16, with the others regional underneath. Another season of conferences underneath the premier to sort out what comes the season after is the only way to get it done without properly shafting any of the current clubs. If it is a merger, and clubs will be displaced more than expected based on positions, that needs to be laid out prior to next season starting so that clubs know what they are playing for and can plan accordingly for 2020/21. And that's clubs in both organisations knowing what they are playing for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 With you and Gordon continually trying to do down the league you are in there really are some hideous mewling quims in the Linlithgow support. How exactly would the Bigot Brothers reserves playing the likes of Berwick or Albion Rovers develop the younger players? I know the pair of you are Old Firm fans who like to post here about your Wee Team but come on, have some balls and see this for the completely horrific idea that it is. Don't you do discussion?You forget not everyone shares your views. I may be a sceptic but that doesn't mean I don't want change. My concerns are around a pyramid that's no more than a concept involving some but excluding others. There remains more questions than answers. The PWG are going round in circles with no real outcomes to move the concept forwards. They can't even agree basics.My original post suggested the lack of outcomes opened the door for others to push solutions ie Colt teams.Given the double digit attraction of some teams - it's a solution that could appeal to others more than anything the PWG may eventually decide.And I have no desire to see a return junior. But I do wish for more answers than questions going forwards. Uncertainty is only breeding discontent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: Don't you do discussion? He doesn't, and he mischaracterises the views of everyone who doesn't share his orthodoxy, which is why I stopped engaging with him ages ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I'm open to Tayside feeding into the LL so long as Tayside is a seperate league (perhaps using the current ERJFA to do this in a scenario where Lothians/Fife went on the whole to EOS). Clubs near and around the dividing should have the choice such as Tayport for an example whether to play in the EOS or a Tayside league. The downside is a Tayside league would have a massive gulf from Lochee United to Coupar Angus if its a single division akin to the SOSL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said: I'm open to Tayside feeding into the LL so long as Tayside is a seperate league (perhaps using the current ERJFA to do this in a scenario where Lothians/Fife went on the whole to EOS). Clubs near and around the dividing should have the choice such as Tayport for an example whether to play in the EOS or a Tayside league. The downside is a Tayside league would have a massive gulf from Lochee United to Coupar Angus if its a single division akin to the SOSL. Eyemouth have lost 13-0 and 15-1 in their last 2 games! You don’t get much bigger a gulf than that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Eyemouth have lost 13-0 and 15-1 in their last 2 games! You don’t get much bigger a gulf than that [emoji38]As has been explained 6 million times the EOS is in a transitional season hence the humpings. The clubs doing the skelpings & those getting skelped arent going to be at same level next season. Besides Eyemouth have had off the pitch struggles which dont help matters.Itd be a bit like the WRJFA having a transitional season and a top flight club putting double figures past a lower level team. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Eyemouth have lost 13-0 and 15-1 in their last 2 games! You don’t get much bigger a gulf than that You're right. However the only place you do get a bigger gulf is in the Juniors where there have been two 18-0 scorelines this season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12 Angry Men Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said: As has been explained 6 million times the EOS is in a transitional season hence the humpings. The clubs doing the skelpings & those getting skelped arent going to be at same level next season. Besides Eyemouth have had off the pitch struggles which dont help matters. Itd be a bit like the WRJFA having a transitional season and a top flight club putting double figures past a lower level team. It seems he has absolutely no wish to understand and I'm sure you already realise that any explanation is entirely a waste of time. Indeed, he surely does understand but prefers to obfuscate intentionally, muddying the waters to confuse the debate and bringing absolutely nothing but sarcasm and repeated denigration to those who are simply trying to understand and discuss what might be best for the non-league game in Scotland while highlighting what they see as issues that will no doubt bedevil the lower reaches of the Pyramid for years to come should the EoSFL just accept being "telt" (for that is the standard of contribution) that the Juniors are in. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 It seems he has absolutely no wish to understand and I'm sure you already realise that any explanation is entirely a waste of time. Indeed, he surely does understand but prefers to obfuscate intentionally, muddying the waters to confuse the debate and bringing absolutely nothing but sarcasm and repeated denigration to those who are simply trying to understand and discuss what might be best for the non-league game in Scotland while highlighting what they see as issues that will no doubt bedevil the lower reaches of the Pyramid for years to come should the EoSFL just accept being "telt" (for that is the standard of contribution) that the Juniors are in.I'm not sure the EoS will be "telt" anything! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, superbigal said: I expect Hoose to be in the East Superleague South next season alongside Whitburn, Thornton, Kennoway, Glenrothes, Pumpherston, Armadale, Livingston and the next 2 placed teams from the current Premier South. Provisional plans for 36 (You heard it) league games. 2 Home & 2 Away against each team. Suspect that amount of league games may be revised to 27 if East also has to finish by LL Playoff date. Over on the Junior forum from Al. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Do you forsee the restructure keeping all clubs happy as they get more localised football or will some still move to the EOS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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