Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Rules definately need tightened, there should not be situations where teams can participate but not progress - that defeats the whole concept of a pyramid. It's becoming clear that not every team is in that position and that's shouldn't be acceptable going forwards. Are you saying that not having a Licence in the EoS is unacceptable? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naebor Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Is there any more rumours of junior clubs going eosfl or sosfl. Also any teams who have made the jump, reverting back to juniors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, naebor said: Is there any more rumours of junior clubs going eosfl or sosfl. Also any teams who have made the jump, reverting back to juniors? Are Pumpherston going to accept promotion this time round, or look to be one of those clubs moving to EoS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Are you saying that not having a Licence in the EoS is unacceptable?Not saying unacceptable.My contention is that rules have to be clearer. Set timescales etc so it's clear to all.Teams going forwards can't be allowed to hold back progression of a working pyramid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: Not saying unacceptable. My contention is that rules have to be clearer. Set timescales etc so it's clear to all. Teams going forwards can't be allowed to hold back progression of a working pyramid. Nobody is holding anyone back as far as I can see. The rules/processes are clear enough (although comms re floodlights could be clearer), not sure what you mean by timescales. Remember that this time last year the EoS had 13 members, plus Dalkeith Thistle applying. Out of those, only about 4 clubs were Licenced one of which was Kelty, and LTHV were still working towards it. Fast forward 12 months, membership is 39 and 17 clubs are going through Licencing, so potentially by seasons end there could be around 22 clubs Licenced, which includes the main contenders for the EoS play-offs. There may also be further new applicants. That’s remarkable progress which nobody could have predicted, and hopefully it continues as the Pyramid evolves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Nobody is holding anyone back as far as I can see. The rules/processes are clear enough (although comms re floodlights could be clearer), not sure what you mean by timescales. Remember that this time last year the EoS had 13 members, plus Dalkeith Thistle applying. Out of those, only about 4 clubs were Licenced one of which was Kelty, and LTHV were still working towards it. Fast forward 12 months, membership is 39 and 17 clubs are going through Licencing, so potentially by seasons end there could be around 22 clubs Licenced, which includes the main contenders for the EoS play-offs. There may also be further new applicants. That’s remarkable progress which nobody could have predicted, and hopefully it continues as the Pyramid evolves.If a team can't be promoted that by default restricts free flow via promotion/relegation.I agree progress is great - but if not all teams are undergoing the licensing procedure that could cause issues going forwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: If a team can't be promoted that by default restricts free flow via promotion/relegation. I agree progress is great - but if not all teams are undergoing the licensing procedure that could cause issues going forwards. It does, but in less than 12 months we've seen 17 clubs, 16 ex-Juniors, applying for a Licence to enable them to progress, that should be lauded. All the EoS play-off contenders are either already Licenced or going through it as we speak, so if the SFA play ball on the floodlight issue then there will be promotion and relegation from the LL. Licencing isn't mandatory in the EoS and SoS, and nor should it be given the size and capability of some member clubs. If and when LL2 happens to take over at tier 6 then you have a case for making it mandatory at that level, you then have fluidity between all tiers from 6 upwards. Tier 7 and below should be optional IMO for the foreseeable future, but with the option that if the league winners aren't Licenced, the option can fall to the runners-up to take up the promotion place to tier 6. It's a very fluid situation at the moment, but it wont all fall into place overnight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 25 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: If a team can't be promoted that by default restricts free flow via promotion/relegation. I agree progress is great - but if not all teams are undergoing the licensing procedure that could cause issues going forwards. In some countries they have the rule that the highest finished eligible team gets promoted / a play-off spot. Usually with the rule that they will have to be amongst the top x in their division. I think that would be fair in Scotland. That way unlicensed teams (or ineligible teams like Stranraer reserves in SOS) can't block ambitious teams. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 38 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: It does, but in less than 12 months we've seen 17 clubs, 16 ex-Juniors, applying for a Licence to enable them to progress, that should be lauded. All the EoS play-off contenders are either already Licenced or going through it as we speak, so if the SFA play ball on the floodlight issue then there will be promotion and relegation from the LL. Licencing isn't mandatory in the EoS and SoS, and nor should it be given the size and capability of some member clubs. If and when LL2 happens to take over at tier 6 then you have a case for making it mandatory at that level, you then have fluidity between all tiers from 6 upwards. Tier 7 and below should be optional IMO for the foreseeable future, but with the option that if the league winners aren't Licenced, the option can fall to the runners-up to take up the promotion place to tier 6. It's a very fluid situation at the moment, but it wont all fall into place overnight. LL2 isn’t going to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 LL2 isn’t going to happen.Who fed you that gem? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Ask around your pals,nothing has happened! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: It does, but in less than 12 months we've seen 17 clubs, 16 ex-Juniors, applying for a Licence to enable them to progress, that should be lauded. All the EoS play-off contenders are either already Licenced or going through it as we speak, so if the SFA play ball on the floodlight issue then there will be promotion and relegation from the LL. Licencing isn't mandatory in the EoS and SoS, and nor should it be given the size and capability of some member clubs. If and when LL2 happens to take over at tier 6 then you have a case for making it mandatory at that level, you then have fluidity between all tiers from 6 upwards. Tier 7 and below should be optional IMO for the foreseeable future, but with the option that if the league winners aren't Licenced, the option can fall to the runners-up to take up the promotion place to tier 6. It's a very fluid situation at the moment, but it wont all fall into place overnight. Personally I would contend that maybe these teams are not in the right league for their capabilities. It maybe comes back to individual perceptions on what a Pyramid does. My understanding was it meant no ceilings - therefore to progress teams have/had to be licensed to progress. Hence my contention was a need for a clear set of rules in place for future participation in a pyramid set-up. 27 minutes ago, Marten said: In some countries they have the rule that the highest finished eligible team gets promoted / a play-off spot. Usually with the rule that they will have to be amongst the top x in their division. I think that would be fair in Scotland. That way unlicensed teams (or ineligible teams like Stranraer reserves in SOS) can't block ambitious teams. Mixed emotions on this - I understand the logic, but at same time not a fan of promotion by default against playing success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Ask around your pals,nothing has happened!I know nothing has happened (just like Junior entry at tier 6) but it's on the agenda for the LL meeting next month and a working group is or has been formed to progress it. Pay attention! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 A working group hasn’t been formed and there’s been no meetings....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 A working group hasn’t been formed and there’s been no meetings.......No shit sherlock! You're not really adding anything here. Go back and read the extract from last weeks LL meeting I posted yesterday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 20 hours ago, Burnie_man said: 20 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: I know it might seem to be bogged down in procedures, but I still think there's more chance of LL2 being put in place for 2019/20 than anything else. On the face of it, fairly easy to set-up, just then need to get agreement from SFA, EoS and SoS to change play-off rules, and work out how to populate it and if a Licence is required. Fairly easy for the SFA to turn round and say go and do one as you’re blocking the Juniors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: Personally I would contend that maybe these teams are not in the right league for their capabilities. It maybe comes back to individual perceptions on what a Pyramid does. My understanding was it meant no ceilings - therefore to progress teams have/had to be licensed to progress. Hence my contention was a need for a clear set of rules in place for future participation in a pyramid set-up. You do realise that there isn't a fully functioning Pyramid as it stands and it's all very much a work in progress? nobody knows what a future structure is going to look like yet. I'm sure that once there is, we'll better understand what leagues require a Licence and which ones wont, together with promotion criteria. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Kilbowie Benches said: Fairly easy for the SFA to turn round and say go and do one as you’re blocking the Juniors. The SFA don't have the authority to tell anyone to "do one", they have to follow their own rules. Nobody is blocking anyone. Decisions will be made between SFA, LL, EoS and SoS for changes to LL play-off criteria, and if that means a future LL2 fills in at tier 6 then it's upto those four entities to agree to it, just like they have to agree whether the Juniors can enter the play-offs or not. That might be next season, it might not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 The SFA dont have to agree to LL2 is what I’m saying just like you say the EoSL don’t have to agree to let the Juniors into the play offs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: The SFA dont have to agree to LL2 is what I’m saying just like you say the EoSL don’t have to agree to let the Juniors into the play offs. Correct, but I'm going to hazard a guess here that the SFA wont stop the LL setting-up another division, just like it wouldn't stop the SPFL setting-up League Three if it ever happens, just like it never stopped the EoS changing it's divisions. They might veto it, but they might not, depends what the LL end up proposing. Edited January 14, 2019 by Burnie_man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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