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Burnie_man

Pyramid 2019/2020

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12 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Whose decision is it to make, do you know? And how much sway do the LL hold? If we're talking about promotion into their league, I'd have thought they'd have more interest in their friends in the EOSFL, and more regard for those who jumped across from the Juniors to join it, than for those who've remained in the ERSJFA.

The SFA reps on the PWG (I think Maxwell and Petrie) will take it back to the SFA Board who ultimately make the decisions, just like the embargo.  I doubt the SFA Board will go against their recommendations.

Petrie I understand is sympathetic to the EoS given his club are members of the EoSFA, but whether that counts for anything who knows.

Edited by Burnie_man

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7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The SFA reps on the PWG (I think Maxwell and Petrie) will take it back to the SFA Board who ultimately make the decisions, just like the embargo.  I doubt the SFA Board will go against their recommendations.

Petrie I understand is sympathetic to the EoS given his club are members of the EoSFA, but whether that counts for anything who knows.

Alan McRae has experience of the North Juniors and the HL through Cove Rangers. He's actually taken a team from juniors to seniors!

Ian Maxwell has shown very poor understanding of non-league.

Rod Petrie as you say at least has a link to the EOSFA, hopefully he'll be lobbied directly.

Neil Doncaster... ah, the brains trust.

Michael Mulraney, no idea how he may go.

Thomas McKeown is from the amateurs so he might understand the madness of having two leagues covering the same area supposedly feeding into a league above.

Ana Stewart, dunno how she might vote.

 

Pure guesswork. Hopefully the EOSFA/L will make their feelings known, and will have the backing of the LL.

Apart from anything else, what the hell are they going to propose happens to, say, Whitehill Welfare if they get relegated? They pick a division? It's nuts.

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41 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

What the EoS can do about ERJFA potentially becoming a competitor league covering the same area I don't know, it's madness and continues artificial division but as I said, not sure how much the SFA understand or care.

Suppose the only way to stop it would be if the east juniors collapsed completely and was left with just the Tayside clubs! Maybe the EOS would need to approach the 20 clubs south of the Tay and persuade them to join? I'm sure Inverkeithing and Rosyth would like to play each other, and clubs could avoid the Tayside trips if they moved. Apart from Fauldhouse none of them would've been playing in the Superleague this season without the exodus so they should be fine joining at tier 7 or below.

5 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Michael Mulraney, no idea how he may go.

Apart from anything else, what the hell are they going to propose happens to, say, Whitehill Welfare if they get relegated? They pick a division? It's nuts.

Mulraney is chairman at Alloa, with BSC Glasgow as tenants, and his group owns the company that sponsors the LL so you'd hope he would vote the right way...

Presumably they'd go to the EOS Premier. But could a EOS team move to the Superleague and vice-versa, or are the teams locked into the same league forever?

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2 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Presumably they'd go to the EOS Premier. But could a EOS team move to the Superleague and vice-versa, or are the teams locked into the same league forever?

The way it's phrased in the Lowland League's rules is that the relegated team is relegated into the "League which will have been decided by the Boards of the three leagues prior to the start of each season."

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32 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Suppose the only way to stop it would be if the east juniors collapsed completely and was left with just the Tayside clubs! Maybe the EOS would need to approach the 20 clubs south of the Tay and persuade them to join? I'm sure Inverkeithing and Rosyth would like to play each other, and clubs could avoid the Tayside trips if they moved. Apart from Fauldhouse none of them would've been playing in the Superleague this season without the exodus so they should be fine joining at tier 7 or below.

Mulraney is chairman at Alloa, with BSC Glasgow as tenants, and his group owns the company that sponsors the LL so you'd hope he would vote the right way...

Presumably they'd go to the EOS Premier. But could a EOS team move to the Superleague and vice-versa, or are the teams locked into the same league forever?

Ta, I knew he was Alloa chairman but I didn't realise his firm sponsors the LL. That could be a useful link.

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11 hours ago, GordonS said:

Thomas McKeown is from the amateurs so he might understand the madness of having two leagues covering the same area supposedly feeding into a league above.

He's TJ's "source" on the SFA Board, and a dinosaur, so I doubt it.

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11 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Suppose the only way to stop it would be if the east juniors collapsed completely and was left with just the Tayside clubs! Maybe the EOS would need to approach the 20 clubs south of the Tay and persuade them to join? I'm sure Inverkeithing and Rosyth would like to play each other, and clubs could avoid the Tayside trips if they moved. Apart from Fauldhouse none of them would've been playing in the Superleague this season without the exodus so they should be fine joining at tier 7 or below.

 

You have to remember that West Lothian is probably little different from Ayrshire when it comes to "Joonyur men", those clubs from the area remaining in the ERJFA wont be busting a gut to move IF the ERJFA gain access regardless of whether it makes sense or not.  The Tayside travel aspect could have an influence though, I'm guessing Whitburn and Fauldhouse will be shelling out a pretty penny on buses and/or travel expenses.

 

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30 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

You have to remember that West Lothian is probably little different from Ayrshire when it comes to "Joonyur men", those clubs from the area remaining in the ERJFA wont be busting a gut to move IF the ERJFA gain access regardless of whether it makes sense or not.  The Tayside travel aspect could have an influence though, I'm guessing Whitburn and Fauldhouse will be shelling out a pretty penny on buses and/or travel expenses.

 

Your joking the travel in eosfl is much worse they say. Dispite camelon travel being on average 20 miles less per game on last year super league would have been a hundred times worse if stayed

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To me the West Region need to just come become the West of Scotland League but would need to include Glasgow Uni in the structure. The teams would compete in South Challenge CUp basically a replacement for Junior cup which includes all non league teams. There own version of Alex Jack Cup for non licensed clubs.

The east clubs need to come over and I drew up how it could look obviously guessing that Bonnyrigg win the playoff and whitehill come down obviously the formula could be altered to suit. I guessed at top 5 and a random stab at the 6th team.  Tayside clubs to create there own league as a feeder to Highland league. I also believe the so called below the tay clubs scone and Kinnoull would stay as it seems more logical for them to stay with those teams.  This is how it could look for next season

East of Scotland Premiership 2019-2020

1. Whitehill Welfare

2. Penicuik Athletic

3. Hill O'Beath

4. Dunbar United

5. Musselburgh Athletic

6. Newtongrange Star

7. Leith Athletic (a guess on 6th place)

8. Dundonald Bluebell

9. Tranent Juniors

10. Bo'ness United

11. Sauchie Juniors

12. Linlithgow Rose

13. Jeanfield Swifts

14. Broxburn Athletic

15. Camelon Juniors

16. Heriott Watt Uni

 

 

Division 1 North

1. Thornton Hibs

2. Tayport

3. Glenrothes

4. Kennoway Star Hearts

5. Newburgh

6. Kirkcaldy YM

7. Lochore Welfare

8. Lochgelly Albert

9. Rosyth

10. Oakley United

11. Crossgates Primrose

12. Burnt Island Shipyard

13. Invekeithing Hillfield Swifts

14. St. Andrews United

 

 

Division 1 West

1. Whitburn Juniors

2. Fauldhouse United

3. Pumpherston Juniors          

4. Armadale Thistle

5. West Calder United

6. Bathgate Thistle

7. Stoneyburn Juniors

8. Harthill Royal

9. Dunipace FC

10. Stirling Uni EOSFL

11. Blackburn United

12. Livingston United

13. Craigroyston

14. Syngenta FC

Division 1 East

1. Coldstream

2. Peebles Rovers

3. Easthouses Lily

4. Arniston Rangers

5. Hawick Royal Albert

6. Tweedmouth Rangers

7. Dalkeith Thistle

8. Haddington Athletic

9. Tynecastle FC

10. Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale

11. Eyemouth United

12. Preston Athletic

13. Ormiston  

14. Edinburgh United

 

At end of the season multiple things could happen 3 up and 3 down as a definate with 4th bottom of EOSFL dropping down if the Highland League winner went up and someone from the lowland came down resulted in relegation from Lowland League to EOSFL.  Or same as this year where top 5 and best 6th make up a new Division 1. Leaving the remaining 26 to be split into two leagues of 13 and if you maybe got another 2 clubs in you could have two leagues of 14.

 

League Cup for 19/20 the 3 x 14 division 1 clubs would play the qualifying league 14 groups of 3 winners go through with the 16 clubs from Premiership. The following season if went to 3 tier structure would be the same bottom clubs play in the qualifying league to qualify for league cup while the premiership and division 1 would be in the 1st round waiting.

Edited by AlanCamelonfan

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18 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

To me the West Region need to just come become the West of Scotland League but would need to include Glasgow Uni in the structure. The teams would compete in South Challenge CUp basically a replacement for Junior cup which includes all non league teams. There own version of Alex Jack Cup for non licensed clubs.

The east clubs need to come over and I drew up how it could look obviously guessing that Bonnyrigg win the playoff and whitehill come down obviously the formula could be altered to suit. I guessed at top 5 and a random stab at the 6th team.  Tayside clubs to create there own league as a feeder to Highland league. I also believe the so called below the tay clubs scone and Kinnoull would stay as it seems more logical for them to stay with those teams.  This is how it could look for next season

East of Scotland Premiership 2019-2020

1. Whitehill Welfare

2. Penicuik Athletic

3. Hill O'Beath

4. Dunbar United

5. Musselburgh Athletic

6. Newtongrange Star

7. Leith Athletic (a guess on 6th place)

8. Dundonald Bluebell

9. Tranent Juniors

10. Bo'ness United

11. Sauchie Juniors

12. Linlithgow Rose

13. Jeanfield Swifts

14. Broxburn Athletic

15. Camelon Juniors

16. Heriott Watt Uni

 

 

Division 1 North

1. Thornton Hibs

2. Tayport

3. Glenrothes

4. Kennoway Star Hearts

5. Newburgh

6. Kirkcaldy YM

7. Lochore Welfare

8. Lochgelly Albert

9. Rosyth

10. Oakley United

11. Crossgates Primrose

12. Burnt Island Shipyard

13. Invekeithing Hillfield Swifts

14. St. Andrews United

 

 

Division 1 West

1. Whitburn Juniors

2. Fauldhouse United

3. Pumpherston Juniors          

4. Armadale Thistle

5. West Calder United

6. Bathgate Thistle

7. Stoneyburn Juniors

8. Harthill Royal

9. Dunipace FC

10. Stirling Uni EOSFL

11. Blackburn United

12. Livingston United

13. Craigroyston

14. Syngenta FC

At end of the season multiple things could happen 3 up and 3 down as a definate with 4th bottom of EOSFL dropping down if the Highland League winner went up and someone from the lowland came down resulted in relegation from Lowland League to EOSFL.  Or same as this year where top 5 and best 6th make up a new Division 1. Leaving the remaining 26 to be split into two leagues of 13 and if you maybe got another 2 clubs in you could have two leagues of 14.

League Cup for 19/20 the 3 x 14 division 1 clubs would play the qualifying league 14 groups of 3 winners go through with the 16 clubs from Premiership. The following season if went to 3 tier structure would be the same bottom clubs play in the qualifying league to qualify for league cup while the premiership and division 1 would be in the 1st round waiting.

I assume you have missed out Div 1 East?

I'm not a fan of three regions, difficult to manage for promotion/relegation, plus looking at that West is much harder than the North.  EoS Premier x 16, EoS First x 16, then perhaps two regions below (or conferences to deal with new clubs).  Same set-up as last season in the ERJFA, minus the Tayside clubs.

That said, this is how it should work, not setting up the ERJFA as a competitor league.

Edited by Burnie_man

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2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I assume you have missed out Div 1 East?

I'm not a fan of three regions, difficult to manage for promotion/relegation, plus looking at that West is much harder than the North.  EoS Premier x 16, EoS First x 16, then perhaps two regions below.  Same set-up as last season in the ERJFA, minus the Tayside clubs.

Division 1 East

1. Coldstream

2. Peebles Rovers

3. Easthouses Lily

4. Arniston Rangers

5. Hawick Royal Albert

6. Tweedmouth Rangers

7. Dalkeith Thistle

8. Haddington Athletic

9. Tynecastle FC

10. Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale

11. Eyemouth United

12. Preston Athletic

13. Ormiston  

14. Edinburgh United

 

 

sorry there you go. I can understand that but not sure about having 3 or 4 divisons all in

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4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I assume you have missed out Div 1 East?

I'm not a fan of three regions, difficult to manage for promotion/relegation, plus looking at that West is much harder than the North.  EoS Premier x 16, EoS First x 16, then perhaps two regions below.  Same set-up as last season in the ERJFA, minus the Tayside clubs.

I did suggest going to that for 2020-2021. But using the conferences for tier 7 as i think it would encourge the clubs over than trying to sort out clubs at t7 and t8 for next yr aswell

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2 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Division 1 East

1. Coldstream

2. Peebles Rovers

3. Easthouses Lily

4. Arniston Rangers

5. Hawick Royal Albert

6. Tweedmouth Rangers

7. Dalkeith Thistle

8. Haddington Athletic

9. Tynecastle FC

10. Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale

11. Eyemouth United

12. Preston Athletic

13. Ormiston  

14. Edinburgh United

 

 

sorry there you go. I can understand that but not sure about having 3 or 4 divisons all in

Can you do one showing EoS Premier x 16, EoS first x 16, then two seeded Conferences, then also one showing EoS Premier, with three seeded Conferences.

Edited by Burnie_man

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25 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Can you do one showing EoS Premier x 16, EoS first x 16, then two seeded Conferences, then also one showing EoS Premier, with three seeded Conferences.

As promised using seeding the current EOSFL 1-23. The 18 Juniors and syngenta 1-19

East of Scotland Premiership 2019-2020

1. Whitehill Welfare

2. Penicuik Athletic

3. Hill O'Beath

4. Dunbar United

5. Musselburgh Athletic

6. Newtongrange Star

7. Leith Athletic (a guess on 6th place)

8. Dundonald Bluebell

9. Tranent Juniors

10. Bo'ness United

11. Sauchie Juniors

12. Linlithgow Rose

13. Jeanfield Swifts

14. Broxburn Athletic

15. Camelon Juniors

16. Heriott Watt Uni

 

Division 1a

1. Dalkeith

2. Whitburn

3. Crossgates

4. Fauldhouse

5. Haddington

6. Armadale

7. Tynecastle

8. West Calder United

9. Lothian Thistle

10. Kirkcaldy YM

11. Dunipace

12. Lochgelly Albert

13. Burnt Island Shipyard

14. Tweedmouth Rangers

Division 1b

1.Thornton

2.Coldstream

3. Glenrothes

4. Peebles

5. Pumpherston

6. Easthouses

7. Newburgh

8. Arniston Rangers

9. Stoneyburn

10. Hawick

11. Lochore Welfare

12. Oakley United

13. Syngenta

14. Eyemouth United

 

 

Division 1c

1. Stirling Uni

2. Tayport

3. Preston

4. Kennoway

5. Craigroyston

6. Livingston United

7. St.Andrews United

8. Bathgate Thistle

9. Blackburn United

10. Harthill Royal

11. Edinburgh United

12. Rosyth

13. Ormiston

14. Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

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2 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

As promised using seeding the current EOSFL 1-23. The 18 Juniors and syngenta 1-19

East of Scotland Premiership 2019-2020

1. Whitehill Welfare

2. Penicuik Athletic

3. Hill O'Beath

4. Dunbar United

5. Musselburgh Athletic

6. Newtongrange Star

7. Leith Athletic (a guess on 6th place)

8. Dundonald Bluebell

9. Tranent Juniors

10. Bo'ness United

11. Sauchie Juniors

12. Linlithgow Rose

13. Jeanfield Swifts

14. Broxburn Athletic

15. Camelon Juniors

16. Heriott Watt Uni

 

 

Division 1a

1. Dalkeith

2. Whitburn

3. Crossgates

4. Fauldhouse

5. Haddington

6. Armadale

7. Tynecastle

8. West Calder United

9. Lothian Thistle

10. Kirkcaldy YM

11. Dunipace

12. Lochgelly Albert

13. Burnt Island Shipyard

14. Tweedmouth Rangers

Division 1b

1.Thornton

2.Coldstream

3. Glenrothes

4. Peebles

5. Pumpherston

6. Easthouses

7. Newburgh

8. Arniston Rangers

9. Stoneyburn

10. Hawick

11. Lochore Welfare

12. Oakley United

13. Syngenta

14. Eyemouth United

 

 

 

 

Division 1c

1. Stirling Uni

2. Tayport

3. Preston

4. Kennoway

5. Craigroyston

6. Livingston United

7. St.Andrews United

8. Bathgate Thistle

9. Blackburn United

10. Harthill Royal

11. Edinburgh United

12. Rosyth

13. Ormiston

14. Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

Top 5 or 6 in each of the three Conferences form the EoS First (tier 7) for season 2020-2021, the remaining 25/26/27 can form two regional divisions at tier 8 (North/West,  South/East)

Although another interim season probably wouldn't be popular with some clubs who don't make the EoS Premier next season, if that is what it takes to bring some sanity to the situation then go for it.

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4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Top 5 or 6 in each of the three Conferences form the EoS First (tier 7) for season 2020-2021, the remaining 25/26/27 can form two regional divisions at tier 8 (North/West,  South/East)

Although another interim season probably wouldn't be popular with some clubs who don't make the EoS Premier next season, if that is what it takes to bring some sanity to the situation then go for it.

Alternate. for your 16 team premiership division 1 and 2 leagues of 13 regionalised division 2

Division 1.

1. Dalkeith

2. Stirling Uni EOSFL

3. Coldsteam

4. Crossgates

5. Preston

6. Peebles

7. Haddington

8. Craigroyston

9. Easthouses

10. Tynecastle

11. St Andrews United

12. Arniston Rangers

13. Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale

14. Blackburn United

15. Hawick Royal Albert

16. Dunipace

 

Division 2 north

1.Thornton

2. Tayport       

3. Glenrothes

4. Kennoway

5. Newburgh

6. Kirkcaldy YM

7. Lochore Welfare

8. Lochgelly Albert

9. Rosyth

10. Oakley United

11. Burnt Island Shipyard

12. Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

13. Syngenta

Division 2 south

1. Whitburn

2. Fauldhouse

3. Pumpherston

4. Armadale

5. Livingston

6.West Calder

7. Bathgate

8. Stoneyburn

9. Harthill Royal

10. Edinburgh United

11. Ormiston  

12. Tweedmouth Rangers

13. Eyemouth United

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Overall I'm quite  bemused by the suggestion that the East Juniors may join the pyramid at level 6.  Aside from the obvious problems and contradictions pointed out already, the fact that this idea was even mooted at official level is a bit strange.

There's some decent Juniors  left in the Tayside area, but I recall the EoS saying they took enquiries from clubs north of the Tay looking to join the mass defection back in June. There is a line of logic which suggests that it's perhaps some of these clubs pushing for the East Juniors to join at tier 6 as they can argue that is the level they would have been at next season had they had a senior league to join.

That said, a Tayside league at Tier 6 would surely suit them better, and the east Juniors south of the Tay turned down the chance to join the EoS before the start of this season, so presumably aren't bothered about possible promotion or joining at tier 7.

Then again if the Juniors as a whole join the pyramid, but what is left of the East doesn't want to join the EoS, what would happen then?

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31 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Overall I'm quite  bemused by the suggestion that the East Juniors may join the pyramid at level 6.  Aside from the obvious problems and contradictions pointed out already, the fact that this idea was even mooted at official level is a bit strange.

There's some decent Juniors  left in the Tayside area, but I recall the EoS saying they took enquiries from clubs north of the Tay looking to join the mass defection back in June. There is a line of logic which suggests that it's perhaps some of these clubs pushing for the East Juniors to join at tier 6 as they can argue that is the level they would have been at next season had they had a senior league to join.

That said, a Tayside league at Tier 6 would surely suit them better, and the east Juniors south of the Tay turned down the chance to join the EoS before the start of this season, so presumably aren't bothered about possible promotion or joining at tier 7.

Then again if the Juniors as a whole join the pyramid, but what is left of the East doesn't want to join the EoS, what would happen then?

Whats the point staying junior Pumpherston and bathgate etc don't want to go to super league as all the travel they would be aswell joining eosfl

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19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Embargo lifted.

Very good news! :)

Any change to the requirements? If not, applications will probably start flooding in very soon.

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