gaz5 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 In my opinion if we do that you will end up with likes of fauldhouse trying to go west and face further years of artificial divide. With all due respect, we vote for what's best for the clubs currently in the league, not for the clubs who've declined twice and might or might not apply next year.Conferences have been great to solve a problem, but players don't like them and it's right, in my opinion, we move to a premier/first /second next year. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, gaz5 said: With all due respect, we vote for what's best for the clubs currently in the league, not for the clubs who've declined twice and might or might not apply next year. Conferences have been great to solve a problem, but players don't like them and it's right, in my opinion, we move to a premier/first /second next year. I understand why people want to do it but I think if we do that we could still end up with the same argument next year teams wont come because it will be the the regular strugglers down there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 I understand why people want to do it but I think if we do that we could still end up with the same argument next year teams wont come because it will be the the regular strugglers down thereFrom what I hear there is plenty of interest in clubs joining EoS for next season. Will they all back off if they go to tier 8? Doubtful. The ERJFA south of the Tay is almost at the point where clubs will need to move if they want to play a decent standard of football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I understand why people want to do it but I think if we do that we could still end up with the same argument next year teams wont come because it will be the the regular strugglers down thereThat's entirely their choice. Come or don't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said: I understand why people want to do it but I think if we do that we could still end up with the same argument next year teams wont come because it will be the the regular strugglers down there If K&D are already looking to join, and even some supposedly drawn to the idea of the West. That just further weakens the East Region. Say K&D and Fauldhouse go the South Divisions are down to 18 clubs. The Fife clubs in particular aren't going to look to the West, they'd be signing up for the EoSFL. Right now its probably as easy an argument you can make to Fife clubs. Come in now there's enough for a regionalised Tier and you never have to worry about going to the Borders on a regular basis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anychance Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I agree with Gaz5 and also I think the last 2 seasons have been brilliant for EOS it just needs that promotion relegation structure now for me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 My own view, for the tiny amount it's worth, is that the exodus in the west may be the final catalyst for unification in the east and being as welcome and accommodating as possible at this stage is the most likely way to get it done, once and for all. But I appreciate that this is easy for me to say when (barring disaster) it's not my club that's going to be in a conference set-up for a third season, with the recalcitrant former East Juniors, instead of a pretty decent first division. So I'm happy to go with whatever the EOS clubs who'll be directly affected want to do. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Had a look at the Juniors left in the East Region and how the fared when it went to a clear 3 tier set up of Super-Premier-Regional. There's really on 5 clubs that spent the majority of that of those 12 seasons in the Super-Premier. To me staying with Premier-Conferences is basically trying o appease Bathgate, Tayport, Armadale, Fauldhouse and Whitburn. Maybe Kennoway since they only joined in 2013. Everyone else is used to playing at "Tier 8". Clubs Szns @ “t8” 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16 2016-17 2017-18 1 Bathgate Thistle 0 Super Super Super Super Super Super Premier Premier Premier Premier Premier Premier 2 Tayport 0 Super Super Super Premier Super Premier Premier Super Premier Super Premier Premier 3 Armadale Thistle 2 Premier Premier South Premier Premier Premier Premier Super Super Premier Premier South 4 Fauldhouse United 5 South South Premier Premier South South South Premier Super Super Super Premier 5 Whitburn 5 Super Super Super Super Premier South South South South South Premier Premier 6 Kennoway Star Hearts 9* North North Premier Premier Super 7 Thornton Hibs 9 Central Central Central Central Premier Central Central North North Premier North Premier 8 Rosyth 10 Premier Premier Central Central Central Central Central South South South South South 9 Kirkcaldy & Dysart 11 Central Abeyance Central Central Central Central Central Premier North South South South 10 Livingston United 11 South South South South South South South Premier South South South South 11 Pumpherston 11 South South South South South South South Premier South South South South 12 Scone Thistle 11 Premier Central Central Central Central Abeyance Central North North North North North 13 Harthill Royal 12 South South South South South South South South South Abeyance Abeyance South 14 Lochgelly Albert 12 Central Central Central Central Central Central Central South South South South South 15 Lochore Welfare 12 Central Central Central Central Central Central Central North North North North North 16 Newburgh 12 Central Central Central Central Central Central Central North North North North North 17 Stoneyburn 12 South South South South South South South South South South South South 18 West Calder United 12 South South South South South South South South South South South South 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 To me staying with Premier-Conferences is basically trying o appease Bathgate, Tayport, Armadale, Fauldhouse and Whitburn. Maybe Kennoway since they only joined in 2013. Everyone else is used to playing at "Tier 8".Precisely. In the decision making process required of the current EoSFL members there should be no thought at all given to appeasing recalcitrant Junior clubs by offering, for a third season in a row, conference leagues to the potential detriment of current clubs. Particularly if some of those Junior clubs are playing the field by - according to posts on other threads - noting their interest in a possible WoSFL. I can see no compelling reason at all to go with anything other than a Tier 6/7/8 set up from next season onwards, a set up that offers more than just the one promotion spot from a Tier 7 league than would be the case should multiple conferences at Tier 7 be the format again for season 2020/21. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLad Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 While it is fair to say that teams are entitled to vote for what is best for them and not those potentially coming in, it should be remembered that his wasnt the approach by the member clubs a couple of years ago, who bent over backwards for the newcomers.That said, I would opt against conferences, just not for the sentiments you have stated.With all due respect, we vote for what's best for the clubs currently in the league, not for the clubs who've declined twice and might or might not apply next year.Conferences have been great to solve a problem, but players don't like them and it's right, in my opinion, we move to a premier/first /second next year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, TheLad said: While it is fair to say that teams are entitled to vote for what is best for them and not those potentially coming in, it should be remembered that his wasnt the approach by the member clubs a couple of years ago, who bent over backwards for the newcomers. That said, I would opt against conferences, just not for the sentiments you have stated. The difference then was the volume of applicants. There wasn't really an option beyond the one they went with. You couldn't go for a tiered structure. This time there are options and the decision will be known well in advance of the application deadline. Clubs had to get their format preference in yesterday. Chances are we'll find out this week which option won out. Whichever option they go for i'm sure you'll find the EoSFL will be as accomodating as possible. Say they do go for a Second Division. If there's enough clubs they might go regional instead of seeded conferences for instance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 While it is fair to say that teams are entitled to vote for what is best for them and not those potentially coming in, it should be remembered that his wasnt the approach by the member clubs a couple of years ago, who bent over backwards for the newcomers.That said, I would opt against conferences, just not for the sentiments you have stated.I'm not sure what sentiment you are attributing to me, but the reality is my view includes consideration for those teams and the reasoning for that was outlined in our return to the association.It's not right for them that they bend over backwards for another season to suit the intransigence of the remaining juniors who have had 2 opportunities to move already, in my opinion.The way the original teams handled things since two years ago was nothing short of exemplary. They deserve to get back to some level of normality as well after 2 seasons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Stand by for a rant. At the end of the day the EoS will follow the instructions of the current member clubs, most of whom were Juniors two years ago. It was the original members of the EoS which showed sympathy, selflessness and common sense when the large influx of Juniors came along. Reading some posts here it seems that some of the supporters of these ex Juniors haven't learned a thing. It seems to be "we're better and wiser than the Juniors which made the mistake of believing (like the whole of the West Region Juniors) the drivel dispersed by the SJFA and so didn't join the EoS". Therefore let's keep kicking them - they're down so take advantage. There has never been a better opportunity to create unity and a really cracking league for the non-league scene in the east with benefits at Under 20 and maybe at a future under 17 level. The SJFA has been well and truly "found out" and even the hard-line West Lothian and West Juniors see that now. (No. The West Lothian clubs won't be accepted into the new WoS) It's time to move forward together and take in the south of Tay Bridge Juniors which choose to join and to allocate them fairly to an appropriate position in the divisions of the EoS. If there's that many then run them in parallel Tier 7 and 8 divisions for one season and then merge them fully, in a pre-agreed way, for 21/22. Let's be clear about where these Juniors were before the exodus, as that is the only real means of comparison which there is. Also recall that we are only talking about two seasons ago. Only 20 of the current EoS clubs were in the top 32 positions of the East Juniors before the exodus of clubs. 6 of the remaining places went to remain Juniors from south of the Tay Bridge. Also the two lead clubs in Div.1 south were clubs which remained in the Juniors. However, as Bonnyrigg and one more club will be lost to the Lowland League by next season that makes in 8 out of 26 are clubs which are currently remain Juniors. That makes them comparable with anything that the EoS top two divisions has to offer. The current Junior Super League South has 10 clubs. It makes sense that these clubs should not be relegated for what some perceive as past sins. The "let them play against the current weakest EoS clubs" attitude is all very well but it won't do those EoS clubs any good at all. Think about that. They'll continue to be hammered all too often. Not clever. Also recall how so many posters here were fervent Juniors supporters and, indeed, anti EoS not so long ago. Things change. Don't they? They will again if the EoS clubs vote shows their traditional consideration for others rather than the old Juniors attitudes. The next influx of Juniors needs to be welcomed and to be made to feel welcome - or are some here afraid that they may eventually take their clubs' places in the top division? Kindly leave the old Juniors attitudes behind and help every club to move on and forward for the sake of non-league football in the east. End of Rant. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Pub League Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Dev mate, go and have a lie down. How can Junior teams be "relegated" if they are joining a totally separate league? They had their chance to enter at the appropriate level, they hitched their wagon to a dying grade. They'll move forward as they progress up the leagues, if they are good enough to do so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dev said: The current Junior Super League South has 10 clubs. It makes sense that these clubs should not be relegated for what some perceive as past sins. The "let them play against the current weakest EoS clubs" attitude is all very well but it won't do those EoS clubs any good at all. Think about that. They'll continue to be hammered all too often. Not clever. I don't think for a second anyone actually voting on this wants a Prem-First-Second set up will have any considerations over "past sins". I don't think they particularly care about who else moves across either. They're doing what's best for them with the numbers that they have. As for hammerings, there's two problems with that. One if that many Juniors move over at once there would likely be enough teams to regionalise the Second Division. With the geographic differences between the current "weakest EoS clubs" and Junior teams they would mostly been in diferrent divisions. Two, even if there's only enough teams for a single Second Division. The "current weakest EoS clubs" would actually be facing each other most of the time instead of being split across 2/3 Conferences. So even if it was Easthouses v Fauldhouse one week, it would be Easthouses v. Peebles the next. Likely Second Division Clubs Games Points 1 Burntisland Shipyard 19 26 2 Tweedmouth Rangers 23 16 3 Ormiston 19 13 4 Hawick Royal Albert United 23 12 5 Easthouses Lily MW 18 12 6 Arniston Rangers* 21 9 7 Peebles Rovers 20 8 8 Craigroyston 24 3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Dev said: Stand by for a rant. At the end of the day the EoS will follow the instructions of the current member clubs, most of whom were Juniors two years ago. It was the original members of the EoS which showed sympathy, selflessness and common sense when the large influx of Juniors came along. Reading some posts here it seems that some of the supporters of these ex Juniors haven't learned a thing. It seems to be "we're better and wiser than the Juniors which made the mistake of believing (like the whole of the West Region Juniors) the drivel dispersed by the SJFA and so didn't join the EoS". Therefore let's keep kicking them - they're down so take advantage. There has never been a better opportunity to create unity and a really cracking league for the non-league scene in the east with benefits at Under 20 and maybe at a future under 17 level. The SJFA has been well and truly "found out" and even the hard-line West Lothian and West Juniors see that now. (No. The West Lothian clubs won't be accepted into the new WoS) It's time to move forward together and take in the south of Tay Bridge Juniors which choose to join and to allocate them fairly to an appropriate position in the divisions of the EoS. If there's that many then run them in parallel Tier 7 and 8 divisions for one season and then merge them fully, in a pre-agreed way, for 21/22. Let's be clear about where these Juniors were before the exodus, as that is the only real means of comparison which there is. Also recall that we are only talking about two seasons ago. Only 20 of the current EoS clubs were in the top 32 positions of the East Juniors before the exodus of clubs. 6 of the remaining places went to remain Juniors from south of the Tay Bridge. Also the two lead clubs in Div.1 south were clubs which remained in the Juniors. However, as Bonnyrigg and one more club will be lost to the Lowland League by next season that makes in 8 out of 26 are clubs which are currently remain Juniors. That makes them comparable with anything that the EoS top two divisions has to offer. The current Junior Super League South has 10 clubs. It makes sense that these clubs should not be relegated for what some perceive as past sins. The "let them play against the current weakest EoS clubs" attitude is all very well but it won't do those EoS clubs any good at all. Think about that. They'll continue to be hammered all too often. Not clever. Also recall how so many posters here were fervent Juniors supporters and, indeed, anti EoS not so long ago. Things change. Don't they? They will again if the EoS clubs vote shows their traditional consideration for others rather than the old Juniors attitudes. The next influx of Juniors needs to be welcomed and to be made to feel welcome - or are some here afraid that they may eventually take their clubs' places in the top division? Kindly leave the old Juniors attitudes behind and help every club to move on and forward for the sake of non-league football in the east. End of Rant. In summary, you're still banging the drum to let current Junior clubs enter at a higher level than current members of the EoS. That didn't happen two years ago (and not a single ex-Junior club expected or demanded it), it didnt happen last year, and it won't happen this year. It's nonsense to expect anything otherwise. No club in WL and Fife who are still Juniors are going to join the EoS and start dishing out hammerings. How many East Junior games have you seen this season? Edited February 16, 2020 by Burnie_man 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 The EoSFL have to take the decision on league structure that's best for the league. To me that's Premier, First, Second. Any current juniors who wish to join should join under exactly the same circumstances as all the rest joined. Go in at the lowest level and, depending on numbers, 'conference' the lowest level to accommodate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Looking at the bottom 4 from each Conference you can see that most of them of picked up their points against each other. Geographically Burntisland is the only one that would be in a different regional division. So you can see why they might want to play against each other instead of being split across Conferences again. Burntisland Shipyard (5-2-0) 17 of their 26 points Tweedmouth Rangers (4-1-5) 13 of their 16 points Ormiston (3-2-2) 11 of their 13 points Hawick Royal Albert United (2-3-6) 9 of their 12 points Easthouses Lily MW (3-0-2) 9 of their 12 points Arniston Rangers (2-1-3) 7 of what would have been 15 points if not for the 6 point deduction Peebles Rovers (2-2-3) 8 of their 8 points Craigroyston (0-2-4) 2 of their 3 points 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Offside Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: The EoSFL have to take the decision on league structure that's best for the league. To me that's Premier, First, Second. Any current juniors who wish to join should join under exactly the same circumstances as all the rest joined. Go in at the lowest level and, depending on numbers, 'conference' the lowest level to accommodate. "All the rest" joined two seasons ago in 3 conferences of 13 teams with the existing EoS clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falkirktv Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) For me no junior club should come in at a higher level than a current member, don’t mind if they do it at tier 8 or tier 7, really should be for the current tier 7 clubs to decide as its them who will be affected, I’d go along with what they want to do. And the clubs joining can’t really complain as they were told this would happen, is not our fault they bought into the junior Pravda. And teams in the west take note is tier six this year seven the next and eight the year after. Edited February 16, 2020 by falkirktv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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