Marten Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Nah, they will go to the North Caledonian League. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 11 hours ago, Marten said: Also, Dunipace being in the WRJFA was a geographical oddity. You moving to the EOS fixed this oddity, it didn't create one. CORRECT. Would be good to put this to bed once and for all: Dunipace is in Falkirk Council = now in EoS Fauldhouse is in West Lothian = please go to EoS Harthill's GROUND is in West Lothian = please go to EoS The End FALKIRK: WEST LOTHIAN: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 CORRECT. Would be good to put this to bed once and for all: Dunipace is in Falkirk Council = now in EoS [emoji106] Fauldhouse is in West Lothian = please go to EoS [emoji106] Harthill's GROUND is in West Lothian = please go to EoS [emoji106] The End100% this. The argument elsewhere that there should be no fixed geographical boundary between west and east because not too many teams will choose to take advantage of it really is quite bamboozling when a simple rule as above takes care of any issues and let’s clubs know where they stand. Should it be otherwise and one club takes advantage of being close to only a notional border to move to a region outwith their hitherto natural area then you can be sure that others will look to follow. What’s good for the goose and all that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 For those who may be interested here are the Points Per Game League Tables for the EoS and the south of Tay Bridge Juniors as at 14th Feb, 2020: East of Scotland Premier Division Pos P GD PTS ppg 1 Bo'ness Utd 20 20 46 2.300 2 Hill of Beath H 17 25 36 2.117 4 Broxburn Ath 17 9 32 1.882 3 Camelon J 19 5 33 1.736 5 Tranent J 19 9 31 1.631 8 Jeanfield Sw 16 8 26 1.625 6 Dundonald B 17 13 27 1.588 7 Penicuik Ath 17 8 27 1.588 9 Linlithgow R 17 4 24 1.411 10 Musselburgh Ath 19 -3 23 1.210 11 Crossgates Pr 21 -18 23 1.095 13 Dunbar Utd 18 -8 19 1.055 12 Sauchie J 21 -10 20 0.952 14 Blackburn Utd 19 -22 17 0.894 15 Whitehill W 18 -15 16 0.888 16 Newtongrange S 21 -25 15 0.714 East of Scotland 1st Division Conference A Pos P GD PTS ppg 6 Kinnoull FC 16 33 37 2.312 1 Lothian Th HV 23 31 51 2.217 2 Leith Ath 23 33 50 2.173 3 Dunipace 24 40 48 2.000 4 Heriot Watt Univ 23 24 40 1.739 5 Haddington Ath 22 30 38 1.727 7 St Andrews Utd 22 24 35 1.590 8 Oakley Utd 19 1 28 1.473 9 Burntisland S 18 12 25 1.388 10 Ormiston 19 -44 13 0.684 11 Peebles Rov 20 -69 8 0.400 12 Craigroyston 24 -94 3 0.125 East of Scotland 1st Division Conference B Pos P GD PTS ppg 1 Tynecastle 23 103 65 2.826 2 Inverkeithing HS 19 21 42 2.210 3 Glenrothes 21 17 41 1.952 4 Edinburgh Utd 19 21 35 1.842 5 Preston Ath 20 16 33 1.650 6 Dalkeith Th 22 3 33 1.500 7 Coldstream 22 -9 31 1.409 8 Stirling Univ (EOSFL) 25 -39 23 0.920 9 Tweedmouth Rgrs 23 -41 16 0.695 10 Easthouses LMW 18 -24 12 0.666 11 Hawick RAU 22 -50 11 0.500 12 Arniston Rgrs 21 -39 9 0.428 SJFA East Region Superleagues (South of Tay Bridge Clubs) Pos P GD PTS ppg 1 Livingston Utd 19 19 36 1.894 2 Pumpherston J 17 10 32 1.882 4 Fauldhouse Utd 16 5 30 1.875 6 Thornton H 15 17 28 1.866 3 Armadale Th 17 14 31 1.823 5 Whitburn J 18 8 29 1.611 7 Bathgate Th 14 4 17 1.214 7 Tayport 16 -10 17 1.062 8 Scone Th 18 -27 16 0.888 8 Harthill R 17 -25 14 0.823 9 Kennoway SH 18 -21 13 0.722 10 Lochore W 15 -31 8 0.533 SJFA East Region South Premier League Pos P GD PTS ppg 2 Stoneyburn J 18 45 42 2.333 1 Rosyth 22 34 49 2.227 4 Kirkcaldy & D 17 10 32 1.882 3 Newburgh J 22 9 39 1.772 5 Sauchie C 20 -3 30 1.500 6 Lochgelly Alb 23 -7 30 1.304 8 Linlithgow RCom 22 -12 26 1.181 7 Syngenta 24 -8 26 1.083 9 Bo'ness Utd J 21 -5 19 0.904 10 West Calder Utd 19 -63 0 0.000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 If the EoS is currently canvassing its' clubs about the structure of the league in 2020/21 would it be a sound move to also consider what should be done if the south of Tay Bridge Juniors move over en-masse (with or without the OK from the Juniors Associations)? If there is a plan in place for that possibility and this was made public then these clubs would be in a better position to know how things would stand if there was, in effect, a voluntary merger brought about by the movement of the clubs rather than by any official agreement with the ERJFA/SJFA? One idea for 2020/21 could be : Tier 6 : EoS Premier Division (16 clubs) Tier 7 : EoS Division One (12 clubs) and ER South Juniors SuperLeague (12 clubs) in parallel Conferences with 12 additional inter-conference games to give additional games and to help the mixing of the two sets of clubs. Tier 8 : EoS Division Two (12 clubs) and ER South Juniors PremierLeague (10 clubs) in parallel Conferences with inter-conference games to give additional games and to help the mixing of the two sets of clubs. Other new clubs, including Eyemouth Utd (hopefully) could be incorporated into one of these Divisions. If there were many extra clubs then the size of the Tier 7 Divisions could be increased. This would give in the region of 63 clubs playing within the same league structure. It would be essential for clubs to know what position in the final tables would place them in which division for the 2021/22 season i.e. they would know what they are playing for. The league structure for 2021/22 would have to be set out at the start of 2020/21. Maybe 16 - 16 - then 16 north and 16 south for season 2021/22 or even 16 - 14 - 14 with regional conferences (with inter-conference games) below that? This would allow clubs to find their place according to playing ability within a season of max two seasons. It would also give all clubs certainty about the future so that decisions/plans could be made over matters such as the Development League, Club Licencing, etc. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dev said: If the EoS is currently canvassing its' clubs about the structure of the league in 2020/21 would it be a sound move to also consider what should be done if the south of Tay Bridge Juniors move over en-masse (with or without the OK from the Juniors Associations)? If there is a plan in place for that possibility and this was made public then these clubs would be in a better position to know how things would stand if there was, in effect, a voluntary merger brought about by the movement of the clubs rather than by any official agreement with the ERJFA/SJFA? One idea for 2020/21 could be : Tier 6 : EoS Premier Division (16 clubs) Tier 7 : EoS Division One (12 clubs) and ER South Juniors SuperLeague (12 clubs) in parallel Conferences with 12 additional inter-conference games to give additional games and to help the mixing of the two sets of clubs. Tier 8 : EoS Division Two (12 clubs) and ER South Juniors PremierLeague (10 clubs) in parallel Conferences with inter-conference games to give additional games and to help the mixing of the two sets of clubs. Other new clubs, including Eyemouth Utd (hopefully) could be incorporated into one of these Divisions. If there were many extra clubs then the size of the Tier 7 Divisions could be increased. This would give in the region of 63 clubs playing within the same league structure. It would be essential for clubs to know what position in the final tables would place them in which division for the 2021/22 season i.e. they would know what they are playing for. The league structure for 2021/22 would have to be set out at the start of 2020/21. Maybe 16 - 16 - then 16 north and 16 south for season 2021/22 or even 16 - 14 - 14 with regional conferences (with inter-conference games) below that? This would allow clubs to find their place according to playing ability within a season of max two seasons. It would also give all clubs certainty about the future so that decisions/plans could be made over matters such as the Development League, Club Licencing, etc. Any ERJFA clubs who move to the EoS will join at whatever the clubs decide is the bottom tier. Any suggestion that these clubs go into next season at a higher tier than existing members who made the move two years ago or last year would go down like a lead balloon. The ERJFA refused to talk merger during recent talks with the EoS, I don't think any further meetings are planned, could be wrong. There has been quite a bit of interest I believe anyway and I think you may find a good portion of those remaining ERJFA clubs south of the line will move. A "merger" will happen naturally. Edited February 14, 2020 by Burnie_man 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 FWIW, Dunipace is further west than Shotts, and no-one cares about local government boundaries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Any ERJFA clubs who move to the EoS will join at whatever the clubs decide is the bottom tier. Any suggestion that these clubs go into next season at a higher tier than existing members who made the move two years ago or last year would go down like a lead balloon. The ERJFA refused to talk merger during recent talks with the EoS, I don't think any further meetings are planned, could be wrong. There has been quite a bit of interest I believe anyway and I think you may find a good portion of those remaining ERJFA clubs south of the line will move. A "merger" will happen naturally. Agreed. 'Zippering' junior clubs in based on some judgement of relative strength IMO is something that should only have been available when the possibility of some kind of more formal and mutual merger of the juniors and the pyramid structure below the SPFL was a possibility. That didn't happen. We're in a position now where individual junior clubs have to make the move themselves. The whole point of the pyramid is that it gives clubs the opportunity to find a level they earn the right to play at. That's a princple that should be stuck to and that means that new entrants should start at the bottom of the pyramid, whatever that level is in their geographical area. The relevant bodies should absolutely not be taking the view of 'imagine how strong the LL could be in a couple of years if we jimmy the rules to let in more of the bigger junior clubs'. Everyone will find their level and clubs will get there once the earn that. I do think more promottion / relegation should be opened up into the LL and into SPFL2 but that's on the grounds of competitive fairness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Whether or not the EoS canvasses clubs about my suggestion is up to the league and if the clubs are consulted they will have the opportunity to express their views without fear or favour. This is about getting clubs together without stirring up unnecessary difficulties and this is one way to get the job done. If the clubs are consulted then they make the decision, don't they? Since when is that an issue? Isn't it time that the hatchet was buried once and for all? This would be a way to do that - but the clubs would have the choice to accept or reject. I'm concerned that this is sorted out quickly and without rancour. This is the time when it could all be wrapped up and everyone can move forward. No more hammerings for the weaker clubs week in week out. A Tier 8 which is regionalised so that it forms a natural stepping stone for any clubs wishing to move up from amateur or youth levels etc. Maybe the chance to re-engage with Bordrs football etc? At the end of the day why on earth reject even a consultation with clubs? They reject it? Fine, then move on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 Whether or not the EoS canvasses clubs about my suggestion is up to the league and if the clubs are consulted they will have the opportunity to express their views without fear or favour. This is about getting clubs together without stirring up unnecessary difficulties and this is one way to get the job done. If the clubs are consulted then they make the decision, don't they? Since when is that an issue? Isn't it time that the hatchet was buried once and for all? This would be a way to do that - but the clubs would have the choice to accept or reject. I'm concerned that this is sorted out quickly and without rancour. This is the time when it could all be wrapped up and everyone can move forward. No more hammerings for the weaker clubs week in week out. A Tier 8 which is regionalised so that it forms a natural stepping stone for any clubs wishing to move up from amateur or youth levels etc. Maybe the chance to re-engage with Bordrs football etc? At the end of the day why on earth reject even a consultation with clubs? They reject it? Fine, then move on. Erm.....the clubs were consulted a few weeks ago and as a result have 2 options in front of them, one of which will be adopted, decision probably next week. Neither include the ERJFA because the ERJFA dont want to merge. They dont need outside help to organise themselves. As I said, I'd be very surprised if we dont see a significant shift from Junior to Senior by next season anyway. Don't be concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
never been to scotland Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Dev said: If the EoS is currently canvassing its' clubs about the structure of the league in 2020/21 would it be a sound move to also consider what should be done if the south of Tay Bridge Juniors move over en-masse (with or without the OK from the Juniors Associations)? If there is a plan in place for that possibility and this was made public then these clubs would be in a better position to know how things would stand if there was, in effect, a voluntary merger brought about by the movement of the clubs rather than by any official agreement with the ERJFA/SJFA? One idea for 2020/21 could be : Tier 6 : EoS Premier Division (16 clubs) Tier 7 : EoS Division One (12 clubs) and ER South Juniors SuperLeague (12 clubs) in parallel Conferences with 12 additional inter-conference games to give additional games and to help the mixing of the two sets of clubs. Tier 8 : EoS Division Two (12 clubs) and ER South Juniors PremierLeague (10 clubs) in parallel Conferences with inter-conference games to give additional games and to help the mixing of the two sets of clubs. Other new clubs, including Eyemouth Utd (hopefully) could be incorporated into one of these Divisions. If there were many extra clubs then the size of the Tier 7 Divisions could be increased. This would give in the region of 63 clubs playing within the same league structure. It would be essential for clubs to know what position in the final tables would place them in which division for the 2021/22 season i.e. they would know what they are playing for. The league structure for 2021/22 would have to be set out at the start of 2020/21. Maybe 16 - 16 - then 16 north and 16 south for season 2021/22 or even 16 - 14 - 14 with regional conferences (with inter-conference games) below that? This would allow clubs to find their place according to playing ability within a season of max two seasons. It would also give all clubs certainty about the future so that decisions/plans could be made over matters such as the Development League, Club Licencing, etc. The era of artificial divides is coming to an end. Why do you want to drag it out? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenon Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) Could mods change the thread title to Pyramid 2020-21? It's all about next season now we're discussing. Edited February 14, 2020 by zenon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, Dev said: Whether or not the EoS canvasses clubs about my suggestion is up to the league and if the clubs are consulted they will have the opportunity to express their views without fear or favour. This is about getting clubs together without stirring up unnecessary difficulties and this is one way to get the job done. If the clubs are consulted then they make the decision, don't they? Since when is that an issue? Isn't it time that the hatchet was buried once and for all? This would be a way to do that - but the clubs would have the choice to accept or reject. I'm concerned that this is sorted out quickly and without rancour. This is the time when it could all be wrapped up and everyone can move forward. No more hammerings for the weaker clubs week in week out. A Tier 8 which is regionalised so that it forms a natural stepping stone for any clubs wishing to move up from amateur or youth levels etc. Maybe the chance to re-engage with Bordrs football etc? At the end of the day why on earth reject even a consultation with clubs? They reject it? Fine, then move on. Erm. Getting this sorted quickly went by a long time ago. The vast majority of clubs left in the East Region able to apply to the EoS were regularly in the North & South Divisions which is basically what a EoS Second Division level. Only about a half dozen were regularly in the Super/Premier. And it's not they're powerhouses. So there's no need to merge for fear of hammerings. You can look at Glenrothes losing 8-1 one week against St Andrews, Then beating conference leaders Leith the next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Erm.....the clubs were consulted a few weeks ago and as a result have 2 options in front of them, one of which will be adopted, decision probably next week. Neither include the ERJFA because the ERJFA dont want to merge. They dont need outside help to organise themselves. As I said, I'd be very surprised if we dont see a significant shift from Junior to Senior by next season anyway. Don't be concerned. Current Junior Clubs joining on an individual basis is what I'm thinking not an official merger. It would be far easier for East Junior clubs to make decisions if they had some idea where they would be placed in next season's EoS. Things appear to have moved rapidly since the consultation which you mention i.e. hints of more clubs looking to switch. What were the two Option put to the clubs? Sorry if I missed this here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dev said: Current Junior Clubs joining on an individual basis is what I'm thinking not an official merger. It would be far easier for East Junior clubs to make decisions if they had some idea where they would be placed in next season's EoS. Things appear to have moved rapidly since the consultation which you mention i.e. hints of more clubs looking to switch. What were the two Option put to the clubs? Sorry if I missed this here. The two options are continuation of Conferences next season, or Premier-First-Second. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Erm. Getting this sorted quickly went by a long time ago. The vast majority of clubs left in the East Region able to apply to the EoS were regularly in the North & South Divisions which is basically what a EoS Second Division level. Only about a half dozen were regularly in the Super/Premier. And it's not they're powerhouses. So there's no need to merge for fear of hammerings. You can look at Glenrothes losing 8-1 one week against St Andrews, Then beating conference leaders Leith the next. Not that it matters particularly right now. However, clubs made what many think were bad decisions i.e. to remain Junior. They made a mistake but let them recover from that rather than penalise them. Look forward not backwards. Checking 2017/18 shows Kennoway Star Hearts were in the Super League. Fauldhouse, Tayport, Thornton, Bathgate and Whitburn in the Premier Division. Pumpherston (and Armadale?) were coming up to this division. Surely that would approximate to the current EoS Tier 7? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
never been to scotland Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dev said: Not that it matters particularly right now. However, clubs made what many think were bad decisions i.e. to remain Junior. They made a mistake but let them recover from that rather than penalise them. Look forward not backwards. Checking 2017/18 shows Kennoway Star Hearts were in the Super League. Fauldhouse, Tayport, Thornton, Bathgate and Whitburn in the Premier Division. Pumpherston (and Armadale?) were coming up to this division. Surely that would approximate to the current EoS Tier 7? They can recover by getting promoted to tier 7. Why should they jump ahead of teams like Arniston who chose to move? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dev said: Not that it matters particularly right now. However, clubs made what many think were bad decisions i.e. to remain Junior. They made a mistake but let them recover from that rather than penalise them. Look forward not backwards. Checking 2017/18 shows Kennoway Star Hearts were in the Super League. Fauldhouse, Tayport, Thornton, Bathgate and Whitburn in the Premier Division. Pumpherston (and Armadale?) were coming up to this division. Surely that would approximate to the current EoS Tier 7? In principle, it is exactly what the clubs who made the jump earlier were offered. Go in at the bottom and work your way up. Kelty could have said two seasons ago "We're surely much better than half of the current Lowland League teams". They'd be right. But they started at the bottom. Because parachuting them in higher would completely go against the principles of the pyramid. If clubs are all in favour of this, let them work that out themselves, fair enough. I'd just personally be against it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dev said: Not that it matters particularly right now. However, clubs made what many think were bad decisions i.e. to remain Junior. They made a mistake but let them recover from that rather than penalise them. Look forward not backwards. Checking 2017/18 shows Kennoway Star Hearts were in the Super League. Fauldhouse, Tayport, Thornton, Bathgate and Whitburn in the Premier Division. Pumpherston (and Armadale?) were coming up to this division. Surely that would approximate to the current EoS Tier 7? Nobody is being penalised. Clubs apply to join the EoS and if accepted they will join at the lowest level as new members. The EoS aren't there to fix other people's bad decisions to the detriment of their own members. The door will always be open to new clubs, and everyone will be made very welcome. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, Dev said: Not that it matters particularly right now. However, clubs made what many think were bad decisions i.e. to remain Junior. They made a mistake but let them recover from that rather than penalise them. Look forward not backwards. Checking 2017/18 shows Kennoway Star Hearts were in the Super League. Fauldhouse, Tayport, Thornton, Bathgate and Whitburn in the Premier Division. Pumpherston (and Armadale?) were coming up to this division. Surely that would approximate to the current EoS Tier 7? The only time the 2017-18 standings matter was heading into 2018-19. Livingston United finished 12th in the South Division in 2017-18. Currently top all those clubs in the South Super League. Things have moved on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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