Pyramid 2019/2020

[8MileBU]

22 hours ago, Casey Jones said:

The Hoose thinking of coming over now? Why you look at the league they were in last season, I don’t think Faukhouse could have made a worse decision. Unless there was good sponsorship, it must have cost the club hunners oh pounds travelling to Fife and Tayside every 2nd week.

Better League - locality wise this season, but you must miss the likes of Bo’ness and Linlithgow matches.

At the same time I miss going to places like Fauldhouse, Whitburn, Armadale etc. All those old grounds have a bit of character about them.

[8MileBU]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Yeah, but the question was if Bo'ness were promoted to the LL. 

If they're not promoted, then Bo'ness Utd Juniors probably can't be accepted by the EoS as - unlike the Linlithgow Rose situation - they appear to have a link.

No link. Both play at Newtown Park but that’s it. Bo’ness United have priority at the ground and therefore any attempts by BU Juniors to go EOS would likely mean they’d have to find somewhere else to play.

[Ginaro]

14 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

No link. Both play at Newtown Park but that’s it. Bo’ness United have priority at the ground and therefore any attempts by BU Juniors to go EOS would likely mean they’d have to find somewhere else to play.

Why would both clubs being in the EOS mean the Juniors couldn't play at Newtown Park? They'd be in different divisions so the higher ranked club would get priority, which is what happens just now with the ERJFA scheduling fixtures around the EOS team.

Just now, sdr71 said:

If the Lowland League champions defeat Brechin in the play-off, that creates a vacancy in the Lowland League.  What happens then?

It is filled by the EOS/SOS champion and 16th place doesn't get relegated.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Ginaro

[sdr71]

If the Lowland League champions defeat Brechin in the play-off, that creates a vacancy in the Lowland League.  What happens then?

[stanley]

4 minutes ago, sdr71 said:

If the Lowland League champions defeat Brechin in the play-off, that creates a vacancy in the Lowland League.  What happens then?

EoS/SoS playoff winner (if licensed) is promoted and no LL side is relegated.

[LongTimeLurker]

55 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

No link. Both play at Newtown Park but that’s it. Bo’ness United have priority at the ground and therefore any attempts by BU Juniors to go EOS would likely mean they’d have to find somewhere else to play.

Think the BUJFC guy that posts on here sometimes claimed there was a memorandum of understanding between the two clubs on what would happen if the east region moved into the pyramid (not happening now obviously) and that BUJFC would have become a reserve team under that scenario. 

[patriot1]

48 minutes ago, stanley said:

EoS/SoS playoff winner (if licensed) is promoted and no LL side is relegated.

If neither the EOS nor SOS champions are licensed then there will be only 15 teams in the LL. 

What happens then? 

[LongTimeLurker]

Team gets added by application.

[The Mantis]

6 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Indeed they were, joined Juniors in 1992, first place I ever saw a blue pool table.

Only time I went was 1994. They thumped Bonnyrigg 5-1 and look at where the clubs are now.

[8MileBU]

I was speaking hypothetically should both sides have ended up in the same league at some point.

[Burnie_man]

3 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said:

Burnieman, there isn't the same link in the 2 Bo'ness teams as say the Spartans teams or Stirling University teams . The only link between the two clubs BUFC & BUJFC is they both play at Newtown Park. I think it has been posted before that the problem the Junior side would have in meeting the EoS entry criteria is they wouldn't have first dibs on Newtown Park as the Big BU's have the priority.

 

 

3 hours ago, 8MileBU said:

No link. Both play at Newtown Park but that’s it. Bo’ness United have priority at the ground and therefore any attempts by BU Juniors to go EOS would likely mean they’d have to find somewhere else to play.

Fair do's, but no problem with sharing the ground, the LL fixtures man is the same guy who does the EoS fixtures.

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, The Mantis said:

Only time I went was 1994. They thumped Bonnyrigg 5-1 and look at where the clubs are now.

They've had a few good teams, inc beating Linlithgow in the League Cup Final at a foggy Creamery Park.

[Ginaro]

40 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

I was speaking hypothetically should both sides have ended up in the same league at some point.

Well in that case it would surely make it easier as you'd have the same person doing the fixtures...

7 hours ago, Anychance said:

hope im wrong but I don't think many fife teams will move

Rosyth don't have there own ground yet till lidl or aldi get their finger out

newburgh lochore kennoway ???

Kirkcaldy I think is possible but haven't said anything concrete

lochgelly I would be surprised as secretary is part of the junior committee

Thornton would have to fence off their park as its in the middle of a public park

some good ammys in fife but they play in a very good setup and would be surprised if they left to go to EOS

Rosyth play in a cage but this would surely be ok for tier 8 while their new ground is built - Lidl construction taking place later this year: https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/18184336.work-new-lidl-store-yet-start/

Inverkeithing get by with some plastic mesh fencing around their running track, no reason why Thornton can't do the same while they work on something more permanent.

I don't think that would stop Lochgelly as Broxburn moved despite their secretary being president of the East Region!

[Ray Patterson]

Might be worth having the First Division (Tier 7) at 18 clubs. As it would be the same amount of league games as this season (34). 

16 Premier Division - 30 Games (the same number as now)

18 First Division - 34 Games (The same number as now)

10-12-14-16 Second Division - 27, 33, 26 or 30 games.  

The  Second Division will obviously depend on number and quality of applicants, we know that there's 7 spots filled, so you're only needing 3 new clubs as a minimum to work (Fauldhouse, Thornton + AN Other)

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, The Mantis said:

Only time I went was 1994. They thumped Bonnyrigg 5-1 and look at where the clubs are now.

Oof. Harthill will be playing quasi-amateurs while Bonnyrigg could be going to Elgin on a Tuesday night... 

[8MileBU]

Fair do's, but no problem with sharing the ground, the LL fixtures man is the same guy who does the EoS fixtures.

Aye, I don’t see it as an issue but I remember there being some talk of them not being in the same league.

[12 Angry Men]

For what it’s worth, I think the ‘original’ EoSFL clubs have, via the excellent use of conference leagues, been more than accommodating to the influx of ex-Juniors over the last two seasons. However, the time for creating structure in the leagues with an eye to accommodating further Junior arrivals is surely now in the past?.....particularly as, if there is to be any more new arrivals, most will turn up kicking and screaming with a continuing belligerence about being forced to accept the inevitable. Accordingly, I strongly believe that a Tier 7 First Division should be created beneath the present Tier 6 Premier Division with a Tier 8 Second Division positioned below. It is into this Second Division that any new applicants should be accepted and it is here where the base of the pyramid should be expanded, creating regional divisions if and when necessary.

 

Last season the Juniors had an opportunity to enter at Tier 6, this season the opportunity for Tier 7 pyramid football was on offer. For next season, to ensure proper structure of the leagues going forward those who didn’t take these opportunities when they were there really can’t complain about having to enter at Tier 8. There will be little alternative left open to them anyway.

Edited February 6, 2020 by 12 Angry Men

[Burnie_man]

38 minutes ago, 12 Angry Men said:

For what it’s worth, I think the ‘original’ EoSFL clubs have, via the excellent use of conference leagues, been more than accommodating to the influx of ex-Juniors over the last two seasons. However, the time for creating structure in the leagues with an eye to accommodating further Junior arrivals is surely now in the past?.....particularly as, if there is to be any more new arrivals, most will turn up kicking and screaming with a continuing belligerence about being forced to accept the inevitable. Accordingly, I strongly believe that a Tier 7 First Division should be created beneath the present Tier 6 Premier Division with a Tier 8 Second Division positioned below. It is into this Second Division that any new applicants should be accepted and it is here where the base of the pyramid should be expanded, creating regional divisions if and when necessary.

 

Last season the Juniors had an opportunity to enter at Tier 6, this season the opportunity for Tier 7 pyramid football was on offer. For next season, to ensure proper structure of the leagues going forward those who didn’t take these opportunities when they were there really can’t complain about having to enter at Tier 8. There will be little alternative left open to them anyway.

Ditto.   I believe the EoS are consulting clubs now on their views.

[Black & Red Socks]

1 hour ago, 12 Angry Men said:

For what it’s worth, I think the ‘original’ EoSFL clubs have, via the excellent use of conference leagues, been more than accommodating to the influx of ex-Juniors over the last two seasons. However, the time for creating structure in the leagues with an eye to accommodating further Junior arrivals is surely now in the past?.....particularly as, if there is to be any more new arrivals, most will turn up kicking and screaming with a continuing belligerence about being forced to accept the inevitable. Accordingly, I strongly believe that a Tier 7 First Division should be created beneath the present Tier 6 Premier Division with a Tier 8 Second Division positioned below. It is into this Second Division that any new applicants should be accepted and it is here where the base of the pyramid should be expanded, creating regional divisions if and when necessary.

 

Last season the Juniors had an opportunity to enter at Tier 6, this season the opportunity for Tier 7 pyramid football was on offer. For next season, to ensure proper structure of the leagues going forward those who didn’t take these opportunities when they were there really can’t complain about having to enter at Tier 8. There will be little alternative left open to them anyway.

Agreed. This seems an eminently sensible way to approach the necessary restructuring to the EoSFL for season 2020/21 - such restructuring allows for 3up/3 down promotion and relegation between the Premier and First Divisions, a much more satisfactory flow of teams up and down the pyramid than between the Premier Division and the Conferences at the moment.  I'm sure that any or all of the rump of clubs currently left in the ERSJFA will be welcomed with open arms but there really is no need to continue to hold back the development of the league structure to encourage it, and if that means the likes of Bathgate, Whitburn, Fauldhouse and Armadale have to battle it out with each other for the promotion spots in the Second Division should they elect to move (and hopefully they do) then so be it - they've brought that upon themselves through their own intransigence and lack of foresight over the last two seasons.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, 12 Angry Men said:

For what it’s worth, I think the ‘original’ EoSFL clubs have, via the excellent use of conference leagues, been more than accommodating to the influx of ex-Juniors over the last two seasons. However, the time for creating structure in the leagues with an eye to accommodating further Junior arrivals is surely now in the past?.....particularly as, if there is to be any more new arrivals, most will turn up kicking and screaming with a continuing belligerence about being forced to accept the inevitable. Accordingly, I strongly believe that a Tier 7 First Division should be created beneath the present Tier 6 Premier Division with a Tier 8 Second Division positioned below. It is into this Second Division that any new applicants should be accepted and it is here where the base of the pyramid should be expanded, creating regional divisions if and when necessary.

 

Last season the Juniors had an opportunity to enter at Tier 6, this season the opportunity for Tier 7 pyramid football was on offer. For next season, to ensure proper structure of the leagues going forward those who didn’t take these opportunities when they were there really can’t complain about having to enter at Tier 8. There will be little alternative left open to them anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Ditto.   I believe the EoS are consulting clubs now on their views.

If there are enough interested new clubs (Whether they are currently Junior, Amateur or Youth) the Tier 8 Division could be regionalised so the Fife & Perthshire clubs etc wouldn't need to travel down to the Borders for league games. If regionalised though there would need to be two promotion places per each for these Tier 8 divisions. However, if Tier 7 is less than 16 clubs initially  there wouldn't need to be four clubs relegated. That would come in when the Division reached 16 clubs. When Tier 7 reaches 16 clubs the four down wouldn't be too bad.

This assumes that each  Tier 7 and 8 division starts with approximately the same number of clubs. Assuming Tier 6 has 16 clubs then, ideally, this could happen next season if the Tier 7 and 8 divisions had 12 clubs each. Ideally 52 clubs would be needed (16 ; 12; 12 ;12) in the league to make that work satisfactorily.

However, it could work with a lower number of clubs in the two Tier 8 divisions if something like the current cross conference games was brought in e.g. two Tier 8 divisions (North & West  and  South & East) with say 10 teams in each. This would give 18 league matches plus once each against the teams from the other conference so 27 in total. You would need 48 clubs for this. There are currently 40 clubs so this could help to make this happen for next season. It also allows for growth which may come if the Tier 8 is kept regionalised so a max 64 clubs at 16 per division.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Dev
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