Pyramid 2019/2020

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It's not that the LL will go above 16. It's would the EOS Premier or will the have a fixed number like the LL.

We know the LL playoff means only one promotion spot. So there's the possibility of 2 relegated to the EoS with no promotion or just the champions promoted. That means there's the possibility of a EoS Premier of 17 or 18 clubs.

 

There is also the added complication of the two Conferences potentially transitioning into a divisional structure, so the size of any new "First Division" may have to have a degree of flexibility.

[Tutankhamen]

Haven’t been on for months, am i right Bonnyrigg Rose won promotion and have been told to bolt over having no floodlights?

What the f**k is going on?

[Skipper]

20 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Haven’t been on for months, am i right Bonnyrigg Rose won promotion and have been told to bolt over having no floodlights?

What the f**k is going on?

You are correct. Floodlights now required to obtain licence. Hopefully they appeal.

[FairWeatherFan]

54 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

There is also the added complication of the two Conferences potentially transitioning into a divisional structure, so the size of any new "First Division" may have to have a degree of flexibility.

Think that one is easy enough. You just set a minimum like this year's Top 5 with the next best position(s) below  making up the numbers, with the minimum of a 12 team league set.

You've also got a realistic scenario of EOS champion promoted with relegated LL club going to the SoS. Does a team from the EoS Premier get a reprieve or does an extra conference side get promoted?

[Tutankhamen]

On 13/05/2019 at 12:49, Burnie_man said:

The three clubs in the LL without lights are existing SFA members and have been for many years. They should be granted a period of derogation in order to meet the criteria, just as the 6 clubs in the EoS without lights should also have received a period of derogation to enable them to comply. It didn't happen and the SFA should rightly be criticised for that, they have got it badly wrong.

On the flip side, the SFA admitted 6 new members so it's hardly a case of a closed shop.  The SPFL is also about to relegate a long standing member to the Lowland League, so that's not a closed shop either.

Club licencing is an ongoing process which is there to improve standards.  Seats will undoubtedly be a requirement at some point down the line, and so they should be.

None of this should be used as a tool by those who want to preserve Junior football in order to hold clubs back.

The more I hear, the more I hope the SFA close the door on the SJFA being involved in any shape or form, and instead set-up a WoSFL for those clubs who want to progress.

 

 

Code for tough titty Bonnyrigg 

[Cornishman]

 

 

 

On 5/7/2019 at 18:28, mcruic said:

I'm not expecting it to happen overnight.  But it has to happen with 3 feeder leagues sooner or later if a fully working pyramid is to happen. There are more than twice as many clubs in the "South" for a start.

Sorry, mcruic. There will probably never be more than two direct regional feeders into the SPFL - the latter originally baulked the two-feeder idea and only upon the creation of the LFL did they unwillingly come into line step.

 

[GordonS]

Haven’t been on for months, am i right Bonnyrigg Rose won promotion and have been told to bolt over having no floodlights?
What the f**k is going on?

By the SFA yes, not the LL. They were denied a licence by the SFA, for not getting floodlights in the 16 hours between being told they'd need them and their inspection.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 5/13/2019 at 23:08, Ginaro said:

...Various levels of the pyramid have different criteria for entry. Bonnyrigg aren't the first club not to be allowed promotion from tier 6 - LTHV, Leith Athletic, St Cuthbert Wanderers, and Wigtown & Bladnoch have all been prevented from gaining promotion to the LL because they didn't have a licence...

Did St Cuthberts Wanderers not delay their licensing application to avoid being promoted? Think you'll also find that Wigtown had a late season nosedive in form that was rumoured to be related to not wanting to be in the LL and went into abeyance a few months later. Prevented is maybe the wrong way to phrase it where they are concerned.

[FairWeatherFan]

42 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Did St Cuthberts Wanderers not delay their licensing application to avoid being promoted? Think you'll also find that Wigtown had a late season nosedive in form that was rumoured to be related to not wanting to be in the LL and went into abeyance a few months later. Prevented is maybe the wrong way to phrase it where they are concerned.

For St Cutbert's I don't know if the March 31st deadline was in effect back then. But that date was certainly passed.

 In April they were talking about still needing a toilet block and that would be the last thing for licensing.

Between April and June the local council appear to have pulled their safety certificate over the locations of their emergency exits.

In one of the articles the Chairman does deny the rumours they were stalling to prevent promotion.

 

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Did St Cuthberts Wanderers not delay their licensing application to avoid being promoted? Think you'll also find that Wigtown had a late season nosedive in form that was rumoured to be related to not wanting to be in the LL and went into abeyance a few months later. Prevented is maybe the wrong way to phrase it where they are concerned.

I was thinking of Wigtown when they won the league in 2014-15, the first season of the SoS being at tier 6. They were 2nd in 2016-17 behind Edusport - dropped 8 points in the last 4 games (losses v Edusport and Mid-Annandale (5th)) when they'd only dropped 4 all season, so who knows maybe they did throw it away...

Edited May 15, 2019 by Ginaro

[Crossbar]

For 2019/20 I'd like to see...

EoS Premier (16 teams, tier 6)
Bonnyrigg/Whitehill
Bo'ness
Tranent
Dundonald
Crossgates
Penicuik
Hill of Beath
Musselburgh
Newtongrange
Dunbar
Broxburn
Linlithgow
Camelon
Jeanfield
Blackburn
Sauchie

16th and 15th place 'definitely' relegated; 14th place 'probably' relagated in order to maintain 16 teams; 13th place would be 100% safe.

North Conference and South Conference underneath. Both Conference champions would go up and the two runners-up would play-off for the third 'probable' promotion spot (this spot would be unavailable only if two LL teams drop to the EoS Prem and no-one is promoted).  It is also possible that 4 teams (the Conference North and South champions and runners-up) are all promoted in order to maintain 16 teams in the EoS Premier.

North Conference and South Conference would be flexible in terms of numbers and geography. In other words no border line like the Tay Bridge for LL/HL. Because of the geography of the current teams, it would predominently be the Edinburgh teams (LTHV/Tynecastle/Heriot-Watt/Craigroyston/Edinburgh Utd/Leith) who could be moved North or South at start of a new seasons to balance up numbers. Like they do in the English pyramid. Clearly that would mean St Andrews and Stirling Uni EoS would always be North Conferance; Tweedmouth and Eyemouth would always be in the South Conference. 

For 2019/20...

EoS North Conference (12 teams, tier 7)
Oakley
LTHV
Burntisland
Tynecastle
Dunipace
Heriot-Watt
St Andrews
Stirling Uni EoS
Craigroyston
Edinburgh Utd
Inverkeithing
Glenrothes Juniors

EoS South Conference (12 teams, tier 7)
Leith
Coldstream
Easthouses
Arniston
Peebles
Hawick
Tweedmouth
Dalkeith
Haddington
Eyemouth
Preston
Ormiston

Like this year, I'd ensure that each League Cup qualifying group at the start of the season would have one EoS Premier team, one EoS North team, one EoS South team and then one other at random... to avoid playing the same teams too many times.

The King Cup would be dropped by the EoS Premier teams and would be contested only by the 24 Conference North and South clubs (to give the smaller clubs a chance to win something and to reduce fixture congestion for EoS Premier clubs who will already be competing in 4 cups (League Cup, Football Nation EoS Qualifying Cup, South Challenge Cup and Scottish Cup/Alex Jack Cup).

The EoS Premier and LL clubs would enter the Football Nation EoS Qualifying Cup at a later round (because they have more league fixtures and are likely to go further in the cups than the North and South sides).

The South Challenge Cup would remain all in.

Alex Jack Cup (and Scottish Cup) format would be unchanged. 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Crossbar

[Crossbar]

13 minutes ago, Crossbar said:

For 2019/20 I'd like to see...

EoS Premier (16 teams)
Bonnyrigg/Whitehill
Bo'ness
Tranent
Dundonald
Crossgates
Penicuik
Hill of Beath
Musselburgh
Newtongrange
Dunbar
Broxburn
Linlithgow
Camelon
Jeanfield
Blackburn
Sauchie

16th and 15th place 'definitely' relegated; 14th place 'probably' relagated in order to maintain 16 teams; 13th place would be 100% safe.

North Conference and South Conference underneath. Both Conference champions would go up and the two runners-up would play-off for the third 'probable' promotion spot (this spot would be unavailable only if two LL teams drop to the EoS Prem and no-one is promoted).  It is also possible that 4 teams (the Conference North and South champions and runners-up) are all promoted in order to maintain 16 teams in the EoS Premier.

North Conference and South Conference would be flexible in terms of numbers and geography. In other words no border line like the Tay Bridge for LL/HL. Because of the geography of the current teams, it would predominently be the Edinburgh teams (LTHV/Tynecastle/Heriot-Watt/Craigroyston/Edinburgh Utd/Leith) who could be moved North or South at start of a new seasons to balance up numbers. Like they do in the English pyramid. Clearly that would mean St Andrews and Stirling Uni EoS would always be North Conferance; Tweedmouth and Eyemouth would always be in the South Conference. 

For 2019/20...

EoS North Conference (12 teams)
Oakley
LTHV
Burntisland
Tynecastle
Dunipace
Heriot-Watt
St Andrews
Stirling Uni EoS
Craigroyston
Edinburgh Utd
Inverkeithing
Glenrothes Juniors

EoS South Conference (12 teams)
Leith
Coldstream
Easthouses
Arniston
Peebles
Hawick
Tweedmouth
Dalkeith
Haddington
Eyemouth
Preston
Ormiston

Like this year, I'd ensure that each League Cup qualifying group at the start of the season would have one EoS Premier team, one EoS North team, one EoS South team and then one other at random... to avoid playing the same teams too many times.

The King Cup would be dropped by the EoS Premier teams and would be contested only by the 24 Conference North and South clubs (to give the smaller clubs a chance to win something and to reduce fixture congestion for EoS Premier clubs who will already be competing in 4 cups (League Cup, Football Nation EoS Qualifying Cup, South Challenge Cup and Scottish Cup/Alex Jack Cup).

The EoS Premier and LL clubs would enter the Football Nation EoS Qualifying Cup at a later round (because they have more league fixtures and are likely to go further in the cups than the North and South sides).

The South Challenge Cup would remain all in.

Alex Jack Cup (and Scottish Cup) format would be unchanged. 

 

And then for 2020/21 we might be able to introduce tier 8 underneath  if the ERJFA clubs eventually decide to jump ship or amalgamate.

EoS North Conference Second Division

EoS South Conference Second Division

Edited May 15, 2019 by Crossbar

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Crossbar said:

And then for 2020/21 we might be able to introduce tier 8 underneath  if the ERJFA clubs eventually decide to jump ship or amalgamate.

EoS North Conference Second Division

EoS South Conference Second Division

I don't think there's much appetite for endless Conferences.

Next season it looks like 2 seeded Conferences, probably with the aim of forming a First Division underneath the Premier for 20/21.

[Marten]

Tonight I went to Whitburn v Rosyth. I overheard a conversation about the "defectors". Apparently many of them are unhappy in the EOS. Dundonald and Blackburn want to move back to the ERJFA but they weren't being allowed back in. Sounded very convincing...

 

(I had to restrain myself to not loudly burst out laughing)

[Crossbar]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I don't think there's much appetite for endless Conferences.

Next season it looks like 2 seeded Conferences, probably with the aim of forming a First Division underneath the Premier for 20/21.

You could be right. I just think the pyramid should widen as we go down into tier 7. A North and South league would give more teams something to play for in terms of a promotion chase and it would also avoid (just for example) Coldstream ending up in a league which involves lots of trips to Fife and West Lothian but none to the Borders or East Lothian. Or you could have Inverkeithing having lots of trips to the Borders and East Lothian but no opponents in Fife. That should not be an issue at tier 6 because it is a high level but just think tier 7 should be regional (but flexible) with parallel conferences to support the smaller clubs.  What do you think about the King Cup idea? And byes for the tier 6 clubs in the later rounds onf the Football Nation EoS Qualifying Cup? 

[parsforlife]

Tonight I went to Whitburn v Rosyth. I overheard a conversation about the "defectors". Apparently many of them are unhappy in the EOS. Dundonald and Blackburn want to move back to the ERJFA but they weren't being allowed back in. Sounded very convincing...
 
I had to restrain myself to not loudly burst out laughing

You had 1 Job...

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, Marten said:

Tonight I went to Whitburn v Rosyth. I overheard a conversation about the "defectors". Apparently many of them are unhappy in the EOS. Dundonald and Blackburn want to move back to the ERJFA but they weren't being allowed back in. Sounded very convincing...

 

(I had to restrain myself to not loudly burst out laughing)

We want to move back?

They're a strange lot along the road........

Edited May 15, 2019 by Burnie_man

[Marten]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

We want to move back?

Yep, apparently you found out it is not all that great in the seniors and the juniors are much better.  

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Marten said:

Yep, apparently you found out it is not all that great in the seniors and the juniors are much better.  

Ah I see, I suppose the EoS Premier looks a bit shit, and the Scottish Cup maybe is tin pot afterall..........dear god

[Burnie_man]

14 minutes ago, Crossbar said:

You could be right. I just think the pyramid should widen as we go down into tier 7. A North and South league would give more teams something to play for in terms of a promotion chase and it would also avoid (just for example) Coldstream ending up in a league which involves lots of trips to Fife and West Lothian but none to the Borders or East Lothian. Or you could have Inverkeithing having lots of trips to the Borders and East Lothian but no opponents in Fife. That should not be an issue at tier 6 because it is a high level but just think tier 7 should be regional (but flexible) with parallel conferences to support the smaller clubs.  What do you think about the King Cup idea? And byes for the tier 6 clubs in the later rounds onf the Football Nation EoS Qualifying Cup? 

I believe there will be a proposal at AGM to restrict the King Cup to Conference sides only.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Burnie_man