Pyramid 2019/2020

[calmac25]

The SFA issue new guidelines for licencing mid season each year so nothing sinister about it just that floodlights are a pretty major investment.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 hours ago, Dev said:

With regard to your point about matters having been very badly handled by the SFA. There is also the matter of changing the Licence criteria in mid season.

If the Lowland League was reprimanded for attempting to change its' Rules in mid season as this would affect promotion and relegation  -even though it was an attempt by the Lowland League to correct a generally accepted fault - then how come the SFA thinks that it is remotely reasonable for it to change Licencing rules in mid season when this obviously directly affects promotion and relegation matters in the Lowland League and the EoS?

What's sauce for the goose etc.

 

Licensing runs by the calendar year and not by the football season. Most of the time this is actually beneficial. Clubs audited late in the calendar year will basically end up with 18 months notice. Audited Aug 2018, Changes Jan 2019, Audited Aug 2019 season's already started so get a derogation until May/June 2020.

[Dev]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Licensing runs by the calendar year and not by the football season. Most of the time this is actually beneficial. Clubs audited late in the calendar year will basically end up with 18 months notice. Audited Aug 2018, Changes Jan 2019, Audited Aug 2019 season's already started so get a derogation until May/June 2020.

Check out what happens in other Nations. Change the rules in January in preparation for the next season - Yes - as this gives some advance warning of changes.

Just because it has been done this way so far doesn't make it sensible, practical or in line with good practice.

Ponder the investments made by so many clubs to make a current season dead-line and then argue for the status quo? 

[mcruic]

Just thought I'd add 2 pics I created using rough coordinates from all clubs (senior, junior, amateur, welfare) in Scotland.  The first is a map of all the club locations, divided roughly into groups.  The second is an average travel distance (as the crow flies) for every league in Scotland, with the highest average and lowest average distance also (averaged over all the member clubs in that league).  No league below senior level has a higher average travel distance than 33 miles, with 65 miles being the highest average travel distance for any non-senior club (South Lochaber Thistle, from Kinlochleven, who play in the Greater Glasgow Amateurs).  The 3 clubs in that little island (Fort William, South Lochaber Thistle and Oban Saints) are all quite close to each other, but all play in separate leagues, and are all the furthest  travellers in their respective leagues.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by mcruic

[Spyro]

19 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Just thought I'd add 2 pics I created using rough coordinates from all clubs (senior, junior, amateur, welfare) in Scotland.  The first is a map of all the club locations, divided roughly into groups.  The second is an average travel distance (as the crow flies) for every league in Scotland, with the highest average and lowest average distance also (averaged over all the member clubs in that league).  No league below senior level has a higher average travel distance than 33 miles, with 65 miles being the highest average travel distance for any non-senior club (South Lochaber Thistle, from Kinlochleven, who play in the Greater Glasgow Amateurs).  The 3 clubs in that little island (Fort William, South Lochaber Thistle and Oban Saints) are all quite close to each other, but all play in separate leagues, and are all the furthest  travellers in their respective leagues.

 

There’s not a lot between Fort William, Oban Saints and SLT in term of quality imo, Mallaig are only in the Skye League as the Lochaber Welfare League wasn’t too great and needed a new challenge... Is there any chance of getting them all in the same league at tier7-9? I don’t know who else is near enough to make up numbers of decent teams though

[mcruic]

Fort William would reduce their average trip from 98 miles to 48 if they joined the Skye and Lochalsh League.  The only thing stopping them would be that they wouldn't attract players (because they'd no longer be a senior club), but with all due respect, the standard of players they are attracting is not good enough to compete at the level they are currently at.

[Spyro]

41 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Fort William would reduce their average trip from 98 miles to 48 if they joined the Skye and Lochalsh League.  The only thing stopping them would be that they wouldn't attract players (because they'd no longer be a senior club), but with all due respect, the standard of players they are attracting is not good enough to compete at the level they are currently at.

No chance, it’s a decent but not very good amateur league. Plus 48 miles is very VERY off the mark...

[mcruic]

37 minutes ago, Spyro said:

No chance, it’s a decent but not very good amateur league. Plus 48 miles is very VERY off the mark...

Yes, I'm going as the crow flies - which obviously makes a huge difference.  For example, Fort William to Portree is only 58 miles as the crow flies, but 108 miles by road.

 

Fort William took on Mallaig in 2017 in a pre-season friendly and won 9-1, and Mallaig is one of the Skye & Lochalsh League's better teams. So yes, would be a bit uncompetitive for them.  Possibly, joining an Argyll league would be better (with the likes of Oban, South Lochaber, Helensburgh, Rhu, Ardencaple, Cardross, Lomond Vale, Lochgilphead, Campbeltown, Carradale).  Only Campbeltown would be over 100 miles.  Currently, they have only 4 trips out of 17 less than 100 miles (Nairn, Clachnacuddin, Strathspey and Forres).

Edited May 5, 2019 by mcruic

[Spyro]

Last I heard when I was up there is that Mallaig had just been accepted into the Skye and Lochalsh league, and we’re hoping to work games around the ferry to/from Armadale... don’t know how that went though

[mcruic]

1 minute ago, Spyro said:

Last I heard when I was up there is that Mallaig had just been accepted into the Skye and Lochalsh league, and we’re hoping to work games around the ferry to/from Armadale... don’t know how that went though

Mallaig joined for the 2018 league and won it in their first season.  They won 13 and lost 3 of their 16 games, scoring 107 goals and conceding 32.  They then beat the 2017 champions Kyleakin 2-1 in a play-off.  This year they have won their first 3 matches.

The Lochaber welfare league folded in 2016, with only 4 or 5 teams (Caol United, Ballachulish, Nevis Range, Mallaig and Fort William's U-17 team).

[Marten]

10 hours ago, Spyro said:

Last I heard when I was up there is that Mallaig had just been accepted into the Skye and Lochalsh league, and we’re hoping to work games around the ferry to/from Armadale... don’t know how that went though

They seem to kick off a fair amount of their games at 12.30 as far as I remember from when I was in the area a few weeks ago (was thinking of going to a game but didn't in the end). These times are most likely because of the ferry indeed.

[Burnie_man]

Now that we know there will be no changes to tier 6 next season, it will be another season where the EoS Champions have a great chance of going upto LL.

No disrespect to the SoS but once the West eventually come on board the LL play-off will become a much harder prospect.

That will spice up the title race.

[mcruic]

Another attempt at a pyramid system - 16-team leagues would mean all current senior and junior teams could be fit into 5 tiers, and there could be 3-up, 3-down to keep things moving.

Nothing really outlandish about this proposal - not many teams would be travelling any more than they are now (some would be travelling less in fact).  Still plenty of derbies. Amateur clubs are in white text.  I still maintain this Lowland/Highland divide needs to change to a North/East/West system, otherwise the pyramid becomes huge and convoluted in the South and tiny in the North.  A similar licensing/grading system to that in England could be put in place, so that teams not eligible for promotion on these criteria don't need to go up.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by mcruic

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Another attempt at a pyramid system - 16-team leagues would mean all current senior and junior teams could be fit into 5 tiers, and there could be 3-up, 3-down to keep things moving.

Nothing really outlandish about this proposal - not many teams would be travelling any more than they are now (some would be travelling less in fact).  Still plenty of derbies. Amateur clubs are in white text.  I still maintain this Lowland/Highland divide needs to change to a North/East/West system, otherwise the pyramid becomes huge and convoluted in the South and tiny in the North.  A similar licensing/grading system to that in England could be put in place, so that teams not eligible for promotion on these criteria don't need to go up.

 

My eyes bleed.  Surely we all know this will never happen, and this thread is about next years Pyramid..........

[mcruic]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

My eyes bleed.  Surely we all know this will never happen, and this thread is about next years Pyramid..........

Sorry - possibly the wrong place for this.  I wasn't able to find a general Pyramid thread.  But my point is, the West/East/North setup the juniors have is better than the North/South system the seniors have, and continuing in the direction of a North/South pyramid is only going to cause problems later, and have several of the better junior teams (from the West and East) fighting over the same number of places as those from the weaker North region.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, mcruic said:

Sorry - possibly the wrong place for this.  I wasn't able to find a general Pyramid thread.  But my point is, the West/East/North setup the juniors have is better than the North/South system the seniors have, and continuing in the direction of a North/South pyramid is only going to cause problems later, and have several of the better junior teams (from the West and East) fighting over the same number of places as those from the weaker North region.

I don't disagree with that but you'll have noticed we're nowhere near getting even the absolute basics in place yet.

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I don't disagree with that but you'll have noticed we're nowhere near getting even the absolute basics in place yet.

As a "basic" for 2019/20  : 

If Berwick Rangers lose to Cove Rangers, does this mean that the Lowland vacancies will be filled by  Bonnyrigg and Berwick, with Whitehill relegated,  Dalbeattie safe, and that any new applicants will not be considered  ? Or will the Lowland be barred from promoting Bonnyrigg , if its licensing application is not approved before the Lowland AGM  ?  

If Cove leave the HFL, will/can the SFA block the 'vacancy' being filled, given the SFA's previous announcement, that it wishes the Highland to have its membership reduced to 16 clubs, in line with the Lowland League  ?

Have the dates of the HFL and SLL  AGM's  been confirmed as yet ?

Edited May 6, 2019 by Robert James
typo error

[Burnie_man]

As a "basic" for 2019/20  : 
If Berwick Rangers lose to Cove Rangers, does this mean that the Lowland vacancies will be filled by  Bonnyrigg and Berwick, with Whitehill relegated,  Dalbeattie safe, and that any new applicants will not be considered  ? Or will the Lowland be barred from promoting Bonnyrigg , if its licensing application is not approved before the Lowland AGM  ?  
If Cove leave the HFL, will/can the SFA block the 'vacancy' being filled, given the SFA's previous announcement, that it wishes the Highland to have its membership reduced to 16 clubs, in line with the Lowland League  ?
Have the dates of the HFL and SLL  AGM's  been confirmed as yet ?

I've seen answers to all these elsewhere.

[Che Dail]

2 hours ago, mcruic said:

Another attempt at a pyramid system - 16-team leagues would mean all current senior and junior teams could be fit into 5 tiers, and there could be 3-up, 3-down to keep things moving.

Nothing really outlandish about this proposal - not many teams would be travelling any more than they are now (some would be travelling less in fact).  Still plenty of derbies. Amateur clubs are in white text.  I still maintain this Lowland/Highland divide needs to change to a North/East/West system, otherwise the pyramid becomes huge and convoluted in the South and tiny in the North.  A similar licensing/grading system to that in England could be put in place, so that teams not eligible for promotion on these criteria don't need to go up.

 

 

 

I agree with this approach which reduces the number of top level 'pro' clubs, and spreads out to regional leagues at T3 or T4 - it is a proper pyramid.

Best v best at the top with one or two feeders. Then semi-pro and below that it is populated by local clubs serving the communities in which they operate in.

I just can't see there is any merit in having some of the current clubs in SPL2 in a national league - some of the fixtures, 4 times a season, are a complete waste of time and money which could be spent on development .

Some clubs seem to be clinging on for dear life, and their league status, and it's not serving the game overall.

 

 

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

6 minutes ago, Robert James said:

As a "basic" for 2019/20  : 
If Berwick Rangers lose to Cove Rangers, does this mean that the Lowland vacancies will be filled by  Bonnyrigg and Berwick, with Whitehill relegated,  Dalbeattie safe, and that any new applicants will not be considered  ? Or will the Lowland be barred from promoting Bonnyrigg , if its licensing application is not approved before the Lowland AGM  ?  
If Cove leave the HFL, will/can the SFA block the 'vacancy' being filled, given the SFA's previous announcement, that it wishes the Highland to have its membership reduced to 16 clubs, in line with the Lowland League  ?
Have the dates of the HFL and SLL  AGM's  been confirmed as yet ?

I've seen answers to all these elsewhere.

True, but there still seems to be debate/different views  about Dalbeattie, as well as uncertainty about Bonnyrigg's position (if unlicensed in time) ?

As the fountain of all knowledge (ie rarely proved toi be wrong), your views about the above, would be good to read.  Also, AGM dates ?