Pyramid 2019/2020

[PastyMan]

43 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Can't believe the SFA still want to hammer this ridiculous plan through. If they want to impose change, then a better idea might be telling the remaining south of Tay east juniors to just join the EoS, make a Tayside league for the teams north of the Tay, and then it's a workable solution for the time being at least.

No-one has any objection to the west juniors entering, and it seems that since the north juniors have never been mentioned, that there is no requirement for the juniors to enter as one bloc at the same time. So not sure why the SFA are so hell bent on something so stupid as two leagues at the same tier covering the same area. There is simply no need for that to happen, forced or otherwise.

Agreed. Why on earth would the SFA want to use its power to force through such a half arsed proposal? If they do have that power why don't they come up with something more sensible, sustainable and geared to the future rather than the past.

[superbigal]

Indeed.

What I meant was David Baxter sent the 1 email to over 100 people. Circulation list is large as I assume burnie can see. Leith as an example got 3 email recipient's. A few solicitors and brokers using their work email accounts [emoji33] Even someone as far afield as a Dundee university employee.

 

 

 

 

[Kemlin Dan]

1 minute ago, superbigal said:

Indeed.
What I meant was David Baxter sent the 1 email to over 100 people. Circulation list is large as I assume burnie can see. Even someone as far afield as a Dundee university employee.

All clubs have 2 representatives, if LL and EOS then its easy over 100. if my math is correct will be 114

[FairWeatherFan]

45 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Indeed.

What I meant was David Baxter sent the 1 email to over 100 people. Circulation list is large as I assume burnie can see. Leith as an example got 3 email recipient's. A few solicitors and brokers using their work email accounts Even someone as far afield as a Dundee university employee.

I knew the EoS side of things could expand to over a 100 due to the the whole EoSFL/EoSFA side of things. Was mainly curious as obviously all of the PWG minutes came from your trip to Lochee, making me think your main source of info would be from the junior side of things.

[superbigal]

I knew the EoS side of things could expand to over a 100 due to the the whole EoSFL/EoSFA side of things. Was mainly curious as obviously all of the PWG minutes came from your trip to Lochee, making me think your main source of info would be from the junior side of things.

Try to have sources in all camps bud.
Just want to put it out there while avoiding as much bickering as possible.
Never revealed who any source actually is. Unfair to them and would stop me getting anything useful if I did.
Nothing bar one set of minutes has ever been confidential.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, superbigal said:

Try to have sources in all camps bud.
Just want to put it out there while avoiding as much bickering as possible.
Never revealed who any source actually is. Unfair to them and would stop me getting anything useful if I did.
Nothing bar one set of minutes has ever been confidential.

It's always for the best to get both sides that's what I was curious if there was 2 emails. An SJFA one saying that Petrie stepped in to dictate what's happening to the EoS which you had and one from the EoS saying Petrie's coming to hear their objections which Burnie had.

[superbigal]

It's always for the best to get both sides that's what I was curious if there was 2 emails. An SJFA one saying that Petrie stepped in to dictate what's happening to the EoS which you had and one from the EoS saying Petrie's coming to hear their objections which Burnie had.

Ah okay. How the pwg went came from the junior camp. The email came from the eos and in effect backed up what I had heard from the junior side.

The licensing stuff was most certainly fresh information that I cannot back up. Kind of surprised the eos dont want to grill Petrie on that possible hiccup. Would imagine on the day they most certainly will if there is bad news tonight.

I would hope licensing stuff tonight would become public knowledge long before I get any titbits.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

...making me think your main source of info would be from the junior side of things.

Think he's been involved with St Andrews United in a goalkeeper coach capacity in the not too distant past and he seems to be close to Tayport, so he could easily have contacts in both camps. Hopefully there won't be two warring camps in the not too distant future and the sensible thing will happen where an EoS and ERSJFA merger is concerned.

Edited April 18, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[GordonS]

Agreed. Why on earth would the SFA want to use its power to force through such a half arsed proposal?

You're asking why the SFA would do something half arsed? The people who have presided over the fall of Scottish football from a regional power to a laughing stock?

There are amoebae on the rings of Saturn with more organisational ability than the SFA.

[GordonS]

In fact, if Petrie had the brains to be Machiavellian I would wonder whether they're deliberately holding back the licences in order to strong-arm the LL and EOS into accepting their daft plan. But I don't think he or anyone else there is smart enough to be that sneaky.

[Burnie_man]

On 21/05/2018 at 20:49, Tynierose said:

16 May 2018

To : All Clubs; Regional Secretaries, Management Committee.

Dear Sir / Madam

Given the conjecture following the recent meeting of the Pyramid Working Group, I thought it would be helpful to clarify the purpose of the meeting and what happens next.

The meeting was convened following a SFA Board Meeting on 21 April, where the Board agreed that the SFA should lead and facilitate a meeting which would allow the Juniors to be integrated into the Pyramid system.  The Group would be led by the SFA President.

Present at the Group meeting were representatives of the SFA, SJFA, EOS and LL with Highland League and SOS joining by conference call.

Discussion took place on how integration would work in terms of Registrations, Discipline and Fixture Lists in particular.  We were unable to resolve all the issues at the meeting however it was agreed that the SFA Board be appraised of the progress at their next meeting in June.  N.B. None of the issues raised appeared insurmountable.

The Chairman decided that a “straw poll” be taken regarding the Junior involvement in the Pyramid which was: 

EOS     – No.  However they did suggest that they had no objection to the West joining at Tier 6
SJFA      - Yes.
SOS    - Yes.
HL    - conditional on the previously discussed concerns, i.e. Registrations, Discipline, Fixture Lists being resolved.
LL    - conditional on the previously discussed concerns, i.e. Registrations, Discipline, Fixture Lists being resolved.

Further discussions took place regarding the Juniors entering a joint East / West combined Superleague in the Pyramid.

The SJFA Secretary advised he would contact the SFA Board requesting a decision at their meeting in June.

Yours faithfully

T.A. Johnston
T.A. Johnston
SECRETARY

 

This is an interesting one from May last year (on the New Club in the East of Scotland thread). It illustrates that the EoS have never had a problem with the WRJFA coming into the Pyramid. It shows the problem has always been the ERJFA.

It also show that the LL had already raised concerns about alignment of discipline, fixture lists etc.

Both of these are largely the same issues today, and have been known about for a year or more, yet the SFA chose to ignore.

[FairWeatherFan]

So it all started by in April with TJ's kosher email, where he states that the SFA Board have agreed to the "Juniors entering the Pyramid at Tier 6".

This is immediately shot down by interim SFA Chief Executive Andrew McKinlay's email. Within his email there is no mention of Tiers of any kind and basically says that they're starting the PWG again with the idea of sorting out this uncertainty.

Then you have the 1st PWG meeting of this new era where in TJ's own words he says that the "(SFA) Board agreed that the SFA should lead and facilitate a meeting which would allow the Juniors to be integrated into the Pyramid system". So no obvious SFA Board directive saying the Juniors are in at Tier 6. During this there is a straw poll where the EoSFL say they are okay with the West Region entering but not the East Region.

There doesn't seem to be anything public coming from the June SFA Board meeting or the next PWG meeting in September. There appears to have been a misunderstood compromise which led to the PWG becoming a sub group of just the Lowland area associations, and the misunderstanding over the EoS proposal of Tayside and the Juniors proposal of East Region intact. You've got the EoS meeting minutes and the Maxwell email highlighting those differences.

You then get into the known November sub-PWG minutes which was mainly about Discipline and Registrations issues with the Lowland League asked to come up with a Lower League playoff model.

Then you get the Jan sub-PWG minutes where the Tayside/East region issue raises it's head again. This is partly arose again due to the fact that the Lowland League has not come up with a Lower League playoff model and say that it's up the PWG to propose one before the can action anything. During this TJ steps in with his SFA Board Directive point, an SFA Board Directive that has never been publicly acknowledged in any detailed way. You have to keep in mind that TJ had already said similar things in his April email only to be contradicted by the SFA response.

March nothing really happened. The EoS and East Region talked but nothing happened. The Lower League playoff model was proposed and shot down by unanimous votes by the Lowland League and EoS.

April, a whole year later, we have this new half leaked info suggesting the SFA are finally putting their foot down.

[Burnie_man]

This is the back of a fag packet proposal presented by the SFA

Pyramid Working Group Tier 6 Proposal.pdf

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

This is the back of a fag packet proposal presented by the SFA

Pyramid Working Group Tier 6 Proposal.pdf

Well, it's already out of date by virtue of the fact there is no SJFA East Super League in 2019/20. Not to mention they don't actually detail what the Tier 6 Playoff structure would be.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Well, it's already out of date by virtue of the fact there is no SJFA East Super League in 2019/20. Not to mention they don't actually detail what the Tier 6 Playoff structure would be.

Correct. It also states the format of the play-off would be agreed by all involved, and that clubs had to vote on it by 31st March. 

As we know, the LL and EoS clubs totally rejected it, and as far as I understand any additional comments provided by clubs along with their vote were passed onto the SFA.

Why formalise a vote and invite feedback if, it is alleged, the SFA are thinking of trying to impose this.  Complete shambles as usual.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Correct. It also states the format of the play-off would be agreed by all involved, and that clubs had to vote on it by 31st March. 

As we know, the LL and EoS clubs totally rejected it, and as far as I understand any additional comments provided by clubs along with their vote were passed onto the SFA.

Why formalise a vote and invite feedback if, it is alleged, the SFA are thinking of trying to impose this.  Complete shambles as usual.

I also found the one year trial period as tippy toey not forcing anything on anyone.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, FairWeatherFan said:

I also found the one year trial period as tippy toey not forcing anything on anyone.

A "trial" is a bizarre concept, we already know it's flawed so what is the trial going to achieve, does anyone really think that it would all be undone after a season? 

[Robert James]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Correct. It also states the format of the play-off would be agreed by all involved, and that clubs had to vote on it by 31st March. 

As we know, the LL and EoS clubs totally rejected it, and as far as I understand any additional comments provided by clubs along with their vote were passed onto the SFA.

Why formalise a vote and invite feedback if, it is alleged, the SFA are thinking of trying to impose this.  Complete shambles as usual.

"Clubs had to vote on it by 31st March 2019"

Well we saw the SLFL (0-15) and the EoSL (0-39) votes, but where are the voting results from the other leagues ?

Also,  what was the outcome of the April PWG meeting, which presumably had ALL the voting results (?)

[parsforlife]

This is the back of a fag packet proposal presented by the SFA
Pyramid Working Group Tier 6 Proposal.pdf

This was presumably sent to clubs/leagues before this weeks meeting? With the votes coming back 100% against the proposal from EoS and LL.

Given the SFA have acknowledged that leagues should survey clubs then you would expect they need to recognise and act upon the results of those votes? Why ask for votes to ignore any outcome?

The SFA believe the disciplinary stuff has been resolved, I doubt everyone would agree with that but it is at least something.

Seems farcical to propose a structure and basically ignore the flow of clubs between leagues. And have it as a 'trial' with no criteria for success set! "Oh aye that bit, we'll sort that out later, pinky promise"

So with the votes in against the proposal, the next step would appear for Petrie to go tell the EoS clubs they are all wrong and trial and force the proposal through without change, I suspect he'll fail here. Either that or he's going to actually listen and try and come up with a proposal that recognises club concerns... decide for yourself.

Is he going to meet with LL clubs as well? Are the SFA continue to make the mistake of not talking to junior clubs and trusting TJ to be properly engaging with clubs and representing and communicating to them without bias?

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, superbigal said:

Ah okay. How the pwg went came from the junior camp. The email came from the eos and in effect backed up what I had heard from the junior side.

The licensing stuff was most certainly fresh information that I cannot back up. Kind of surprised the eos dont want to grill Petrie on that possible hiccup. Would imagine on the day they most certainly will if there is bad news tonight.

I would hope licensing stuff tonight would become public knowledge long before I get any titbits.

What was the SFA Board's decision about the  Club Licensing applications due to have been considered at the meeting earlier today ?

Were these outcomes announced at this meeting, or do all the clubs concerned have to wait for a written notification ?