Pyramid 2019/2020

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

All things being equal (and they might not be of course), that would be my preferred set-up for 2020/21.

I had been hoping that following March 31st that we'd start to see the Tier 7 discussion over regional or seeded conferences play out amongst the EoS clubs. With an eye what they might plan 2020-21.

But the EoS/East Region meeting might drag things out beyond March 31st like last year.

[locheeboy]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Agree. Once you have the west feeding into the LL the chances of any Tayside club getting there also diminishes. I think you may get Lochee in there eventually if they get Licenced but they wont get anywhere near SPFL.

I agree that Tayside clubs should team up with NRJFA and feed the HL, but in reality if they feed the LL little will change, and as you say it gets the pyramid working.

Then again, the line may not move and/or nothing comes of the meeting and all this is immaterial. We'll see.

We would have more of a chance of getting there than your lot. By the way we have never said we want to go to the SPFL

[Burnie_man]

We would have more of a chance of getting there than your lot. By the way we have never said we want to go to the SPFL

FFS, any need for that? I never said we did and I never said you do [emoji15]

[falkirktv]

If the plan is to put tayside clubs to feed LL then you’d really need an extra promotion place or two.

[Spyro]

6 hours ago, Snafu said:

I would expect when this dam breaks that eventually around 50% of the HL would be made up of former Juniors clubs from Tayside and Angus. The standard in this league would be a lot higher than it is currently. I don't see any way forward in the context of a pyramid for the HL until it happens.

 

The main concern is the travel time, and that half the current Highland league teams are struggling already...

if you keep the Tayside teams in a Central league, and just make it fair through the playoffs whoever get promoted, you can just about keep the Highland league how it is for a few years and see if it starts to improve back to where it was 20 years ago again...

If not, f**k them all down a league and fill the league with Tayside teams!

[Cyclizine]

3 minutes ago, Spyro said:

The main concern is the travel time, and that half the current Highland league teams are struggling already...

if you keep the Tayside teams in a Central league, and just make it fair through the playoffs whoever get promoted, you can just about keep the Highland league how it is for a few years and see if it starts to improve back to where it was 20 years ago again...

If not, f**k them all down a league and fill the league with Tayside teams!

Enlighten me as to which HFL sides are struggling with the travelling? Outwith Wick, Fort William and Brora, most are at worst a couple of hours apart. That's nothing in North of Scotland terms!

[Spyro]

Ok, I should’ve put it, “some clubs would struggle to travel to play Tayside clubs if that was 40-60% of their league fixtures.

The difference for Wick, or even Nairn/Forres to travel to Dundee is around 2-3 hours extra travel time (on top of the 2-4 hours to Aberdeen) per game... The mountians in the middle make it a really long journey either way round.

Plus, are Dundee teams really wanting to go up to give Wick a do-ing just to be playing in a “higher” league, or play in a competitive Central league with a quarter of the travelling and still the same opportunity to go up through the playoffs... but into a much more competitive, local league.

[Spyro]

13 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Are half the HL teams struggling with traveling, something they should have a budget for every season for the last 100+ years?

What evidence do you have for this?

With the top Juniors clubs from Tayside added to the HL, the clubs that fall out of the HL plus the Tayside and Angus clubs that don't make it will end up in two regionalised leagues a HL North and a HL South, this option makes some sense.

Travel costs have soared.

Paying support has dwindled.

The lose of Caledonian, Thistle, Elgin, Peterhead are still really hurting teams.

Lack of derby’s hurting the Moray teams.

Introduction of Aberdeen teams, along with Wick and Fort William (more travelling)

 

The Highland league is MUCH different now than it was even 30 years ago....

[Cyclizine]

7 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Ok, I should’ve put it, “some clubs would struggle to travel to play Tayside clubs if that was 40-60% of their league fixtures.

The difference for Wick, or even Nairn/Forres to travel to Dundee is around 2-3 hours extra travel time (on top of the 2-4 hours to Aberdeen) per game... The mountians in the middle make it a really long journey either way round.

Plus, are Dundee teams really wanting to go up to give Wick a do-ing just to be playing in a “higher” league, or play in a competitive Central league with a quarter of the travelling and still the same opportunity to go up through the playoffs... but into a much more competitive, local league.

Wick to Dundee or Wick to Aberdeen is pretty much the same time-wise at 4½-5 hours. It'd be an extra half hour or so from Forres or Nairn. You don't go to Dundee from Wick/Forres/Nairn on the A96.

[Ginaro]

5 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Plus, are Dundee teams really wanting to go up to give Wick a do-ing just to be playing in a “higher” league

Auchinleck only beat Wick 2-1 away in the Scottish Cup, I doubt that Dundee teams will be giving Wick a doing...

[Cyclizine]

10 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Travel costs have soared.

Paying support has dwindled.

The lose of Caledonian, Thistle, Elgin, Peterhead are still really hurting teams.

Lack of derby’s hurting the Moray teams.

Introduction of Aberdeen teams, along with Wick and Fort William (more travelling)

 

The Highland league is MUCH different now than it was even 30 years ago....

Are we watching the same Highland League? Of course it's different to 25-30 years ago, the furthest north SFL/SPL club in the country was Aberdeen!

Edited March 15, 2019 by Cyclizine

[ForzaDundee]

3 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Auchinleck only beat Wick 2-1 away in the Scottish Cup, I doubt that Dundee teams will be giving Wick a doing...

There's amateur teams in Dundee who would do well in the Highland League. 

They'd do well in the Juniors too but that's not the point. 

[Spyro]

Ok then! Make the cut off at Tayside, then watch as the current Highland league teams shut the shop even more and pull out the system together...

I think it’s clear that EVERY small club in Scotland is struggling at the moment, or we wouldn’t be having this debate to try and reignite the lower league setup again

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

Ok then! Make the cut off at Tayside, then watch as the current Highland league teams shut the shop even more and pull out the system together...

Just a page back people were claiming that there would only be one Tayside club able to make it to Tier 5 so we can mess around with the boundary anyway and it wouldn't matter where they went - now we're hearing the opposite claim that the Tier 5 league will fill up with Tayside clubs and the plucky Highland League sides will all go bust with the additional travel. You can't have it both ways here.

And other than Fort William (who in the scenario of Tayside teams being promoted to Tier 5 will almost certainly have been fired into the NCL already) the travel time is no different at all, not least as the A9 continues to be steadily upgraded.

Quote

I think it’s clear that EVERY small club in Scotland is struggling at the moment, or we wouldn’t be having this debate to try and reignite the lower league setup again

No, the reason why we're having this current debate is because the SFA has decided that creating a functioning pyramid structure from top to bottom in Scottish football is a more desirable outcome than the stack of closed-shop leagues that we've had until recently. There's no evidence that financial concerns have motivated that decision nor its continued progress - not least because most if not all clubs who enter the pyramid system at their proper place will find themselves better off in terms of revenue than they are outside of it. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by vikingTON

[San Starko Rover]

So here’s an idea for integration, I’m sure many will disagree.

SJFA ceases to exist as an affiliate rebrands with a new name as part of the SFA putting all clubs under one umbrella. It administers all leagues below tier 5 and administers the national cup for non league teams as an Olive Branch let TJ keep his job as head of this.

Scottish Junior cup - keep the name for historical reasons, get rid of replays to aid fixture scheduling and include all teams tier 5 and below (possible exclude the tier 5 teams who’ve qualified for challenge and leagues cups if it’s too many fixtures for them)

West - Do exactly what the EOS did this year conferences including all West Juniors, all SOS and any amateurs who wish to apply. Like the EOS this season there will be a few hammering but one season of pain for the greater good. Might sound unfair to SOS but they really can’t justify tier 6 imo and let’s be honest if they do they’ll just get hammered every playoff by East and West.

East - tier 6 is established so unfair to do another season of conferences at tier 6. End of next season relegate 2 teams promoting the EOS conference champion and the highest placed south of Tay team from ERJFA leagues then form conferences at tier 7 with EOS, South of Tay ERJFA and any interested amateurs.

North - open up HL and make it 16 teams. I think the area is too large for one league at tier 6 so I’d have two leagues feeding the HL. Aberdeenshire and Tayside teams in one league and Highland and Islands in another split somewhere between Inverness and Aberdeen, again do a season of conferences to get everyone at the correct level as soon as possible.

Sure lots will disagree but this would at least get every team at their level as quickly as possible, retain and add to the Junior Cup which is obviously important to a lot of Junior fans and let TJ keep his job while helping the current SFA not have to directly administer all the teams.

[Marten]

30 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

So here’s an idea for integration, I’m sure many will disagree.

SJFA ceases to exist as an affiliate rebrands with a new name as part of the SFA putting all clubs under one umbrella. It administers all leagues below tier 5 and administers the national cup for non league teams as an Olive Branch let TJ keep his job as head of this.

Scottish Junior cup - keep the name for historical reasons, get rid of replays to aid fixture scheduling and include all teams tier 5 and below (possible exclude the tier 5 teams who’ve qualified for challenge and leagues cups if it’s too many fixtures for them)

West - Do exactly what the EOS did this year conferences including all West Juniors, all SOS and any amateurs who wish to apply. Like the EOS this season there will be a few hammering but one season of pain for the greater good. Might sound unfair to SOS but they really can’t justify tier 6 imo and let’s be honest if they do they’ll just get hammered every playoff by East and West.

East - tier 6 is established so unfair to do another season of conferences at tier 6. End of next season relegate 2 teams promoting the EOS conference champion and the highest placed south of Tay team from ERJFA leagues then form conferences at tier 7 with EOS, South of Tay ERJFA and any interested amateurs.

North - open up HL and make it 16 teams. I think the area is too large for one league at tier 6 so I’d have two leagues feeding the HL. Aberdeenshire and Tayside teams in one league and Highland and Islands in another split somewhere between Inverness and Aberdeen, again do a season of conferences to get everyone at the correct level as soon as possible.

Sure lots will disagree but this would at least get every team at their level as quickly as possible, retain and add to the Junior Cup which is obviously important to a lot of Junior fans and let TJ keep his job while helping the current SFA not have to directly administer all the teams.

Largely a decent plan imo. For the North I'd like to add "travel subsidies" for remote teams, similarly to what the Scottish Rugby Union & the French FA do. This will enable island clubs to play in the NCL and possibly get promoted to the HL if they do well.

[Spyro]

1 hour ago, San Starko Rover said:

So here’s an idea for integration, I’m sure many will disagree.

SJFA ceases to exist as an affiliate rebrands with a new name as part of the SFA putting all clubs under one umbrella. It administers all leagues below tier 5 and administers the national cup for non league teams as an Olive Branch let TJ keep his job as head of this.

Scottish Junior cup - keep the name for historical reasons, get rid of replays to aid fixture scheduling and include all teams tier 5 and below (possible exclude the tier 5 teams who’ve qualified for challenge and leagues cups if it’s too many fixtures for them)

West - Do exactly what the EOS did this year conferences including all West Juniors, all SOS and any amateurs who wish to apply. Like the EOS this season there will be a few hammering but one season of pain for the greater good. Might sound unfair to SOS but they really can’t justify tier 6 imo and let’s be honest if they do they’ll just get hammered every playoff by East and West.

East - tier 6 is established so unfair to do another season of conferences at tier 6. End of next season relegate 2 teams promoting the EOS conference champion and the highest placed south of Tay team from ERJFA leagues then form conferences at tier 7 with EOS, South of Tay ERJFA and any interested amateurs.

North - open up HL and make it 16 teams. I think the area is too large for one league at tier 6 so I’d have two leagues feeding the HL. Aberdeenshire and Tayside teams in one league and Highland and Islands in another split somewhere between Inverness and Aberdeen, again do a season of conferences to get everyone at the correct level as soon as possible.

Sure lots will disagree but this would at least get every team at their level as quickly as possible, retain and add to the Junior Cup which is obviously important to a lot of Junior fans and let TJ keep his job while helping the current SFA not have to directly administer all the teams.

This is pretty much what I was suggesting with keeping the current Highland league almost as is....

Edited March 15, 2019 by Spyro

[Gimme]

Scottish Junior cup - keep the name for historical reasons, get rid of replays to aid fixture scheduling and include all teams tier 5 and below (possible exclude the tier 5 teams who’ve qualified for challenge and leagues cups if it’s too many fixtures for them)

To be honest I don't think there would be much appetite from SoS, Lowland or Highland League clubs to participate here, I suspect even those in the East who left last season don't really miss the competition (one or two minor exceptions).

Its time to get things right, not just some half arsed temporary solution to keep a few clubs happy.

The Lowland League will eventually encompass a mix of teams from East, West and South. There will not be any Tayside clubs in the Lowland League, quite simply they don't belong there. The issue now is someone needs to stick there head above the parapet in the North and sort out the structure up there. If there are 3 feeders to the Lowland League there can be 3 for the Highland League based on Geography, short term pain for some clubs but in the next 5 years the Highland League would have a distinctly different look and spread to it as stronger clubs move up.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

So here’s an idea for integration, I’m sure many will disagree.

SJFA ceases to exist as an affiliate rebrands with a new name as part of the SFA putting all clubs under one umbrella. It administers all leagues below tier 5 and administers the national cup for non league teams as an Olive Branch let TJ keep his job as head of this.

Scottish Junior cup - keep the name for historical reasons, get rid of replays to aid fixture scheduling and include all teams tier 5 and below (possible exclude the tier 5 teams who’ve qualified for challenge and leagues cups if it’s too many fixtures for them)

West - Do exactly what the EOS did this year conferences including all West Juniors, all SOS and any amateurs who wish to apply. Like the EOS this season there will be a few hammering but one season of pain for the greater good. Might sound unfair to SOS but they really can’t justify tier 6 imo and let’s be honest if they do they’ll just get hammered every playoff by East and West.

East - tier 6 is established so unfair to do another season of conferences at tier 6. End of next season relegate 2 teams promoting the EOS conference champion and the highest placed south of Tay team from ERJFA leagues then form conferences at tier 7 with EOS, South of Tay ERJFA and any interested amateurs.

North - open up HL and make it 16 teams. I think the area is too large for one league at tier 6 so I’d have two leagues feeding the HL. Aberdeenshire and Tayside teams in one league and Highland and Islands in another split somewhere between Inverness and Aberdeen, again do a season of conferences to get everyone at the correct level as soon as possible.

Sure lots will disagree but this would at least get every team at their level as quickly as possible, retain and add to the Junior Cup which is obviously important to a lot of Junior fans and let TJ keep his job while helping the current SFA not have to directly administer all the teams.

Are you tj? 

[Guest]

Discard everything that other associations have built, keep the junior cup to the detriment of every other cup and allow the man who is all about self preservation (keeping himself in a job) to oversee the lot and be overlord of everyone....... I genuinly thought I'd heard everything as part of this debate.