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Pyramid 2019/2020


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55 minutes ago, superbigal said:

The eosfl is still a work in progress. Surely that is clear. Some on here have the distinct view this is a potential takeover of all the ersjfa teams.

That is never going to wash. In a true merger if that emerges then of course concessions will be needed for the ersjfa teams. As it happens the current best teams happen to be from Tayside and they certainly could not jump ship last season. Therefore it makes complete sense (assuming it happened immediately and lochee win league) that even just lochee made the premier league instead of team 16. As the eos had not 100% established the structure below the premier anyway then absorbing the rest on some sort of equal footing should not be an issue.

On a technical point I always thought new teams were unable to vote on issues until members for over a year. This may of course not apply in the eos.

 

 

If it's to include Tayside I think it's back to the drawing board but if it's ersjfa looks after Tayside and eosfl tsketch the other clubs. That is the simplest solution 

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If the Tayside clubs are unwilling to be in the pyramid with the HFL then any move to cast them adrift under ERSJFA control is doomed to failure. Don't forget the Tayside teams have 19 votes to everyone else's 16.

This is only a first meeting which could easily break up with no deal.

For me I would like to see any changes made for the 20/21 season as there have been a few years recently where clubs have spent all season fighting for promotion/against relegation only for the set up to be changed due to reconstruction. Hopefully this season won't be the same.

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3 hours ago, G4Mac said:

You are suggesting for teams at tier 5 to drive  past teams that are more local. The same in a central league. I'm sure Sauchie would rather have a  simple drive to Cumbernauld rather than a trek to St Andrews. The idea is novel but would require tweaking in order for me to be convinced. If it stays as you portrayed it, then it would really change nothing that isnt already common place right now.....all it achieves is moving the lines from being vertically drawn on a map to horizontally. 

It is an idea or concept which requires detail - but what it acheives is a reasonable solution to the problem with the seemingly hard boundary along the Tay which (effectively) excludes football clubs in one of our major cities from the pyramid.

Sauchie are currently in a league with Eyemouth, potentially Dunbar next season. St Andrews could be asked to travel to Galashiels - and in the current 'split', you have to feel for clubs like Tayport who also find themselves in this strange 'twilight zone' with towns like Broughty and Carnoustie within sight across the river.... but they would need to go south instead.  For all the Lochee guy's bombast - he has a point!

In the Central Belt, 'fuzzy' boundary lines between sfa regions coukd be negotiated, particularly further down the pyramid.

 

 

Edited by Che Dail
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17 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

If the Tayside clubs are unwilling to be in the pyramid with the HFL then any move to cast them adrift under ERSJFA control is doomed to failure. Don't forget the Tayside teams have 19 votes to everyone else's 16.

This is only a first meeting which could easily break up with no deal.

For me I would like to see any changes made for the 20/21 season as there have been a few years recently where clubs have spent all season fighting for promotion/against relegation only for the set up to be changed due to reconstruction. Hopefully this season won't be the same.

The number of votes is somewhat irrelevant if the non-Tayside league teams decide that the EoS is for them - it would be straightforward enough for the other 16 to leave in the exact same way that the other clubs have done over the past two years.

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10 hours ago, Ginaro said:

If ignoring the boundary line for now means we can get all of the teams in the east together quicker, whilst also setting an example for the West/SOS to follow, then it's the pragmatic option that should be pursued. So long as Lochee don't get floodlights or Broughty don't start challenging for the title at their new ground then there won't be a Tayside club ready to go up anyway in the next few years.

In the long term, there will no doubt be more licensed clubs in the LL area, which would pave the way for LL East/West or some other changes at tier 5. But the SPFL aren't going to change anything so progress has to be made from the bottom up.

It will be far more difficult to restructure anything once the majority of clubs are inside the tent pissing out - and defending their own self interest - than at this stage in the process. The idea that an existing and logical split should be disregarded just because a handful of Tayside junior outfits might have a strop otherwise is utterly ridiculous. They can and should be pushed into the setup by the continued decline of their Junior region. 

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With the new AWPR dual carriageway now fully operational around Aberdeen from Stonehaven to Blackdog and the continuing dualling of the A9(Stanley to Dunkeld)under construction now,the argument  for travelling north for football games for Tayside teams is diminishing.

The A96 between Aberdeen and Inverness is to be dualled too.

 The AWPR is taking half an hour of journey times north and south.

As a Deveronvale  fan I would welcome the Tayside teams in even if it would result in Vale fighting relegation to a newly established HFL 2 or a regional league below instead of being mid table just now.

Not having the Tayside sides in the north pyramid would cause a massive imbalance between north and south.

I do understand why they would want to go South but the travelling argument is quickly becoming nonsense with the massive road projects being undertaken in the North.

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39 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

If the Tayside clubs are unwilling to be in the pyramid with the HFL then any move to cast them adrift under ERSJFA control is doomed to failure. Don't forget the Tayside teams have 19 votes to everyone else's 16.

This is only a first meeting which could easily break up with no deal.

For me I would like to see any changes made for the 20/21 season as there have been a few years recently where clubs have spent all season fighting for promotion/against relegation only for the set up to be changed due to reconstruction. Hopefully this season won't be the same.

But if the line hasn't been moved theirs not a lot can be done. But if hey got the south of Tay teams in at tier 7 next season.  Ersjfa run Tayside 19 until it's decided what has to happen to them. They could end up lowland yet. 

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I would hazard a guess that one or both parties have already asked the question to the relevant bodies (SFA, PGB?) whether the HL/LL line can be moved, at least I hope they have otherwise it’s fairly obvious that these talks wouldn’t last long if the answer is a definite no. The ERJFA simply aren’t going to break themselves up and cast “northern” clubs adrift.

If the answer was a yes, or at least “come to us with a proposal to shift it”, then on that basis the first thing to do is to try and agree the outcome they want eg. merged Associations, then sketch out what sort of league format they want, and then onto how exactly they get there and when.  That might not all be discussed at the initial meeting, which could be a meet and greet with a few custard creams thrown in as a peace offering.

I get the impression that this could be the key to getting agreement in the east which also allows the west in, but I wonder what the view of TJ/SJFA will be.

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Posted in the Junior thread but think it belongs here.

See this Highland line business. How no just do it by postcode and allow DD to have the choice to go Highland if they want (except DD6 who are always Lowland). Something like:

Lowland League
DG, TD, ML, KA, G, EH, KY, FK, PA, DD*, PH1-PH14

Highland League
ZE, KW, IV, PH, AB, HS, PH15-PH50

*All DD postcodes are eligible for Lowland League. All DD with the exception of DD6 are also eligible for membership of the Highland League system should a membership application be accepted.

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I think as soon as the Maxwell email came out I think there was a tacit agreement over moving the boundary. 

Even the EoS saying a Tayside league. I don't recall it anywhere as definitively stated as being a highland feeder. They just don't want a geographic overlap.

It's just as with everything else, no one has put a proposal forward for it should be.

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I would hazard a guess that one or both parties have already asked the question to the relevant bodies (SFA, PGB?) whether the HL/LL line can be moved, at least I hope they have otherwise it’s fairly obvious that these talks wouldn’t last long if the answer is a definite no. The ERJFA simply aren’t going to break themselves up and cast “northern” clubs adrift.
If the answer was a yes, or at least “come to us with a proposal to shift it”, then on that basis the first thing to do is to try and agree the outcome they want eg. merged Associations, then sketch out what sort of league format they want, and then onto how exactly they get there and when.  That might not all be discussed at the initial meeting, which could be a meet and greet with a few custard creams thrown in as a peace offering.
I get the impression that this could be the key to getting agreement in the east which also allows the west in, but I wonder what the view of TJ/SJFA will be.
If the merger goes ahead then the SFA are handling discipline for another 36 clubs. Surely at that point the west would also follow suit instead of being the outlier re: discipline. Of course a merger means TJ losing some of his fiefdom but makes getting the west in way way easier.
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If the boundary line is shifted further north at the moment, I think it has to come with a commitment to planning for North/West/East split at tier 5 at some point down the line. It is the clear logical split for the leagues, and although the SPFL are not currently keen on the idea, I expect attitudes on that to shift as the Lowland League gets stronger and the idea becomes more viable.

Although the SPFL's insistence on a two-way split was based on valid concerns about clubs dropping from national football into a weak regional league, the Lowland League arguably ended up being weaker than an individual West or East Tier 5 would have been, given that the latter idea would probably have made it much more likely that the leading Juniors would have got on board.

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The m8 is excellent. But in the south of the country there's nothing.

It makes no sense if we have 3 leagues to group Dumfries and Galloway with the borders, you do end up with 4 hour journeys that on your regions would involve south teams traveling north, head east/west through most of the central region before heading back south. Bonkers.


Indeed! Fastest route from Stranraer to Berwick is via the M8.
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2 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:
2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:
I would hazard a guess that one or both parties have already asked the question to the relevant bodies (SFA, PGB?) whether the HL/LL line can be moved, at least I hope they have otherwise it’s fairly obvious that these talks wouldn’t last long if the answer is a definite no. The ERJFA simply aren’t going to break themselves up and cast “northern” clubs adrift.
If the answer was a yes, or at least “come to us with a proposal to shift it”, then on that basis the first thing to do is to try and agree the outcome they want eg. merged Associations, then sketch out what sort of league format they want, and then onto how exactly they get there and when.  That might not all be discussed at the initial meeting, which could be a meet and greet with a few custard creams thrown in as a peace offering.
I get the impression that this could be the key to getting agreement in the east which also allows the west in, but I wonder what the view of TJ/SJFA will be.

If the merger goes ahead then the SFA are handling discipline for another 36 clubs. Surely at that point the west would also follow suit instead of being the outlier re: discipline. Of course a merger means TJ losing some of his fiefdom but makes getting the west in way way easier.

Of course there's lot's of questions to be answered if this gets past the initial meeting, but I would think it's obvious that if there is to be some form of merger, this sits outside the influence of the SJFA.  It has to be an SFA member league just as the EoS is now.

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10 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Of course there's lot's of questions to be answered if this gets past the initial meeting, but I would think it's obvious that if there is to be some form of merger, this sits outside the influence of the SJFA.  It has to be an SFA member league just as the EoS is now.

There has to be some form of negotiation (in other words give and take) and in my view any club in a revamped Eastern Scotland Regional League (or what ever new title is used) should be given the opportunity to be members of the SJFA if they desire which would give them access to the Junior Cup.

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8 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

There has to be some form of negotiation (in other words give and take) and in my view any club in a revamped Eastern Scotland Regional League (or what ever new title is used) should be given the opportunity to be members of the SJFA if they desire which would give them access to the Junior Cup.

We need less Associations, not maintain ones that no longer serve a real purpose and which would further complicate the fixture list, discipline etc.  (the SJFA want to keep player fines for example, that doesn't happen in the EoS/SFA).

We don't even know what the SJFA's view on this would be, they may not be too chuffed, who knows.

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2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

If the boundary line is shifted further north at the moment, I think it has to come with a commitment to planning for North/West/East split at tier 5 at some point down the line. It is the clear logical split for the leagues, and although the SPFL are not currently keen on the idea, I expect attitudes on that to shift as the Lowland League gets stronger and the idea becomes more viable.

Although the SPFL's insistence on a two-way split was based on valid concerns about clubs dropping from national football into a weak regional league, the Lowland League arguably ended up being weaker than an individual West or East Tier 5 would have been, given that the latter idea would probably have made it much more likely that the leading Juniors would have got on board.

No thanks. That’s basically wanting to back to the junior regions. It’s well known the west junior clubs don’t like travelling past harthill on league duty. From my base in West Lothian I can travel to Largs in less time than travelling to Carnoustie. 

 

East/West splits belong in tier 6 max IMO, tier 5 should be semi-national with a Lowland/Highland split and spfl is fully national. 

 

When the better East and West junior/former junior clubs reach the Lowland League it will be a fantastic competitive league with potential for further media exposure. Opportunities are there.

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The current two-region split is already pretty unbalanced in terms of number, and shifting the line north  is only going to increase that imbalance. A three-region solution would solve that somewhat - the alternative is perhaps awarding the Lowland more promotion spots in the eventual set-up.

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