Pyramid 2019/2020

[Kemlin Dan]

33 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

As per discussion over in the Junior forum. A multitude of ifs, buts and maybes, but 2021-21 could look like this or something similar??

Looks fantastic but how do you get those 4 ERJFA teams into Tier 6 for season 2020/2021, who misses out in Tier 7 to make that happen, as I suspect nothing will happen 2019/2020, what happens to both 2nd placed Tier 7 teams as  they have reason to very disgruntled at Junior teams getting the jump on them if you add 4, even if you just added 2 ERJFA teams 2020/2021 you are again still asking 2 Tier 6 teams to step aside with 4 relegation's to accommodate teams who will have justification to be unhappy at making way for ERJFA teams. 

Its a shame this all couldn't have been sorted last year as what a set up it all could very well have been.

[Salvo Montalbano]

Looks fantastic but how do you get those 4 ERJFA teams into Tier 6 for season 2020/2021, who misses out in Tier 7 to make that happen, as I suspect nothing will happen 2019/2020, what happens to both 2nd placed Tier 7 teams as  they have reason to very disgruntled at Junior teams getting the jump on them if you add 4, even if you just added 2 ERJFA teams 2020/2021 you are again still asking 2 Tier 6 teams to step aside with 4 relegation's to accommodate teams who will have justification to be unhappy at making way for ERJFA teams. 
Its a shame this all couldn't have been sorted last year as what a set up it all could very well have been.

If there is some sort of merger then I guess play offs could work? East Junior Champs vs lowest ranked tier 7 who would have qualified under the old system, East Junior runners up vs second lowest ranked team etc... allows the Champions etc to have a better chance but still allows EoS teams the chance to make a claim on the pitch that they are more deserving of a spot rather than teams being accepted due to crowds, grounds or perceived club size etc? Would also be 4 extra exciting ties with a lot riding on them which could generate good crowds.

[falkirktv]

Eosl have already said no eosl team will be relegated to accommodate a new team/teams. 

The best the east could get would be tier 7 conferences which could be done this year, tayside I suspect a cup comp would be the bridge there to help them keep it interesting but honestly I don’t think there will be much appetite for tayside teams in the east league and none of the parties have the authority to change it because it could affect spfl member clubs in league 2

[Burnie_man]

Eosl have already said no eosl team will be relegated to accommodate a new team/teams. 
The best the east could get would be tier 7 conferences which could be done this year, tayside I suspect a cup comp would be the bridge there to help them keep it interesting but honestly I don’t think there will be much appetite for tayside teams in the east league and none of the parties have the authority to change it because it could affect spfl member clubs in league 2

I'm not a big fan of Tayside clubs being involved but everyone needs to go into the meeting with open minds to see where there is common ground. Who knows if there have been noises from the Professional Game Board that moving the line is not an issue.

To me they should head north, there are already, potentially, too many clubs going to feed into the LL without adding Tayside, but for the greater good of moving this on then maybe it needs considered, at least short term until a solution to the whole northern pyramid is found.

[Che Dail]

36 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm not a big fan of Tayside clubs being involved but everyone needs to go into the meeting with open minds to see where there is common ground. Who knows if there have been noises from the Professional Game Board that moving the line is not an issue.

To me they should head north, there are already, potentially, too many clubs going to feed into the LL without adding Tayside, but for the greater good of moving this on then maybe it needs considered, at least short term until a solution to the whole northern pyramid is found.

To solve the Tayside conundrum, it helps to take a step back and look at the actual geography of the country.  Instead of a LL2 or LLW & LLE,  a Central League could be formed with feeders from the 6 defined SFA regions.  A 3-5 year 'derogation' period would allow new clubs to achieve Licence criteria, or places are initially on application, similar to how the LL was founded.

See the map attached with tier 4 split into 3 distinct regions and made up of teams from the Juniors and EoS plus clubs from SPFL2.:

- Highland League

- Central League

- Lowland League 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Che Dail

[Auld Heid]

Lowland league needs to do everything it can to stop Linlithgow Rose going up to have some integrity and get a team promoted by merit.

Personally I would want to do it on playing merit alone.

But our current situation off the pitch has been achieved by years of hard work and graft (No sugar daddy required or council handouts).

So having the foresight to obtain a licence whilst others dithered may be rewarded - hardly our fault.

[parsforlife]

To solve the Tayside conundrum, it helps to take a step back and look at the actual geography of the country.  Instead of a LL2 or LLW & LLE,  a Central League could be formed with feeders from the 6 defined SFA regions.  A 3-5 year 'derogation' period would allow new clubs to achieve Licence criteria, or places are initially on application, similar to how the LL was founded.
See the map attached with tier 4 split into 3 distinct regions and made up of teams from the Juniors and EoS plus clubs from SPFL2.:
- Highland League
- Central League
- Lowland League 

If we go for 3 feeders to the national leagues then it has to be north, east and west, the road network is far more set up for that.

[Che Dail]

12 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

If we go for 3 feeders to the national leagues then it has to be north, east and west, the road network is far more set up for that.

 

Road networks East to West are excellent, there's no need for a boundary between these areas. 

It's the outlying clubs such as Berwick and Gala and those from Dumfries & Galloway and South Ayrshire which are more difficult to get to.  Max trip is 2.5hrs - but nothing like trips to Elgin or Peterhead, i.e 4hrs + travel time. Not good for players, staff or supporters.

For this grade of football it is a complete waste of time and money that could be spent on club and player development.

For the Central league the max travel time is 1hr 20: Carnoustie to Stirling. You have big towns represented by clubs playing at a good level: Dundee, Dunfermline, Glenrothes, Perth, St Andrews and Stirling.

It also solves the River Tay boundary - and you get really good local leagues below each of the 3 regional leagues.

Makes sense?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Che Dail

[Guest]

Clubs from Stirling travelling to argyll and bute instead of Falkirk and Fife? That makes no sense to me. 

Cumbernauld playing against Linlithgow but not East Stirling or Sauchie? I'm confused how this would work better for clubs? 

[Che Dail]

13 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Clubs from Stirling travelling to argyll and bute instead of Falkirk and Fife? That makes no sense to me. 

Cumbernauld playing against Linlithgow but not East Stirling or Sauchie? I'm confused how this would work better for clubs? 

Which clubs in Argyll & Bute are likely to appear in T4?

The regions shown in T5 are already determined by the SFA with a development officer and support network in each one.

The 4 clubs you reference are in different local authorities, which is significant because that is how the SFA regions are split:

Linlithgow, West Lothian: South East

Cumbernauld, North Lan: South West

Sauchie, Clacks; Stirling, Stirling Council: Central

The main move is to shrink the elite and professional levels, with a focus on best v best at the top of the pyramid. 

Link to regions here:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football-development/regions/

Edited March 13, 2019 by Che Dail

[Ginaro]

If ignoring the boundary line for now means we can get all of the teams in the east together quicker, whilst also setting an example for the West/SOS to follow, then it's the pragmatic option that should be pursued. So long as Lochee don't get floodlights or Broughty don't start challenging for the title at their new ground then there won't be a Tayside club ready to go up anyway in the next few years.

In the long term, there will no doubt be more licensed clubs in the LL area, which would pave the way for LL East/West or some other changes at tier 5. But the SPFL aren't going to change anything so progress has to be made from the bottom up.

[parsforlife]

Road networks East to West are excellent, there's no need for a boundary between these areas. 
It's the outlying clubs such as Berwick and Gala and those from Dumfries & Galloway and South Ayrshire which are more difficult to get to.  Max trip is 2.5hrs - but nothing like trips to Elgin or Peterhead, i.e 4hrs + travel time. Not good for players, staff or supporters.
For this grade of football it is a complete waste of time and money that could be spent on club and player development.
For the Central league the max travel time is 1hr 20: Carnoustie to Stirling. You have big towns represented by clubs playing at a good level: Dundee, Glenrothes, Perth, St Andrews and Stirling.
It also solves the River Tay boundary - and you get really good local leagues below each of the 3 regional leagues.
Makes sense?

The m8 is excellent. But in the south of the country there's nothing.

It makes no sense if we have 3 leagues to group Dumfries and Galloway with the borders, you do end up with 4 hour journeys that on your regions would involve south teams traveling north, head east/west through most of the central region before heading back south. Bonkers.

[Ginaro]

 

[Che Dail]

21 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

 

The m8 is excellent. But in the south of the country there's nothing.

It makes no sense if we have 3 leagues to group Dumfries and Galloway with the borders, you do end up with 4 hour journeys that on your regions would involve south teams traveling north, head east/west through most of the central region before heading back south. Bonkers.

 

Travelling on the M8 is not obligatory. 

Going from Berwick to Annan via Edinburgh would be bonkers since you can drive on the A7 via Hawick, straight across the country.

And Auchinleck to Galashiels is 2hrs on the A72, 20minutes quicker than north to M8 then south again.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Che Dail

[juventus]

Which clubs in Argyll & Bute are likely to appear in T4?
The regions shown in T5 are already determined by the SFA with a development officer and support network in each one.
The 4 clubs you reference are in different local authorities, which is significant because that is how the SFA regions are split:
Linlithgow, West Lothian: South East
Cumbernauld, North Lan: South West
Sauchie, Clacks; Stirling, Stirling Council: Central
The main move is to shrink the elite and professional levels, with a focus on best v best at the top of the pyramid. 
Link to regions here:
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football-development/regions/

North Lanarkshire is in the central region

[ShrimpLok]

7 minutes ago, juventus said:

North Lanarkshire is in the central region

As are East and West Dunbartonshire so Clydebank, Yoker, Vale of Leven, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy and Kilsyth are all kicked out of the West Region as well.

[Che Dail]

7 hours ago, ShrimpLok said:

As are East and West Dunbartonshire so Clydebank, Yoker, Vale of Leven, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy and Kilsyth are all kicked out of the West Region as well.

Some tweaks to detail probably required!

Would make sense for East & West Dunbartonshire to remain in West region (Clydebank are shown in LL in my example).

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Che Dail

[Che Dail]

7 hours ago, Ginaro said:

If ignoring the boundary line for now means we can get all of the teams in the east together quicker, whilst also setting an example for the West/SOS to follow, then it's the pragmatic option that should be pursued. So long as Lochee don't get floodlights or Broughty don't start challenging for the title at their new ground then there won't be a Tayside club ready to go up anyway in the next few years.

In the long term, there will no doubt be more licensed clubs in the LL area, which would pave the way for LL East/West or some other changes at tier 5. But the SPFL aren't going to change anything so progress has to be made from the bottom up.

I agree with this, and it's good to hear that EoS and ERJFA are planning to talk.

Hopefully an agreement can be reached on regional divisions below the EoS Premier and we can see real progress for next season.

[superbigal]

The eosfl is still a work in progress. Surely that is clear. Some on here have the distinct view this is a potential takeover of all the ersjfa teams.

That is never going to wash. In a true merger if that emerges then of course concessions will be needed for the ersjfa teams. As it happens the current best teams happen to be from Tayside and they certainly could not jump ship last season. Therefore it makes complete sense (assuming it happened immediately and lochee win league) that even just lochee made the premier league instead of team 16. As the eos had not 100% established the structure below the premier anyway then absorbing the rest on some sort of equal footing should not be an issue.

On a technical point I always thought new teams were unable to vote on issues until members for over a year. This may of course not apply in the eos.

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Which clubs in Argyll & Bute are likely to appear in T4?

The regions shown in T5 are already determined by the SFA with a development officer and support network in each one.

The 4 clubs you reference are in different local authorities, which is significant because that is how the SFA regions are split:

Linlithgow, West Lothian: South East

Cumbernauld, North Lan: South West

Sauchie, Clacks; Stirling, Stirling Council: Central

The main move is to shrink the elite and professional levels, with a focus on best v best at the top of the pyramid. 

Link to regions here:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football-development/regions/

You are suggesting for teams at tier 5 to drive  past teams that are more local. The same in a central league. I'm sure Sauchie would rather have a  simple drive to Cumbernauld rather than a trek to St Andrews. The idea is novel but would require tweaking in order for me to be convinced. If it stays as you portrayed it, then it would really change nothing that isnt already common place right now.....all it achieves is moving the lines from being vertically drawn on a map to horizontally.