Pyramid 2019/2020

[FairWeatherFan]

5 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

Where’s the map from you’ve posted?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1k4xWEiA6DvPhdnfOqT835ybt52xQ4Grr&ll=56.965619412276396%2C-3.433614900000066&z=7

 

[Burnie_man]

Also factor in to hit 40 they need 4 new clubs. Three clubs are known to be interested. That plus the Preston manager mentioned in an interview that there had been applicants from west lothian amongst others to the EOS.

Even a slight tipping of the scales scuppers any proposed restructure

I'm not sure what the Preston manager was referring to as I've not heard anything about WL clubs moving although I know some are looking at it. I dont believe there have been any actual applicants as yet, the only club to declare were Sygenta last year.

[Skipper]

On 24/02/2019 at 18:07, FairWeatherFan said:

Wasn't too sure where to put this and I didn't want to clutter the attendance threads as they look for headcounts. I saw in the Junior section someone is trying to compile the attendances for the Junior Cup Quarter finals. Pollok v Auchinleck is probably untouchable even with a Cup Final in the senior lower leagues, 

Not so. A Rose Bo’ness cup final would more than match it. Over 1800 at Fife & Lothians cup final down in Boness when we were in juniors

[Kilbowie Benches]

On 24/02/2019 at 18:42, gogsy said:

So kilbowiebenches teams big game in the "biggest Scottish non league cup" had an attendance of three more than yesterdays Kelty v Whitehill league game .

An away game?

How are we responsible for Hurlford having virtually no support?

Everybody knows Hurlford is a tiny place and that they’d be bottom feeders if it wasn’t for Tarmac mans cash.

 

[Auld Heid]

3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

An away game?

How are we responsible for Hurlford having virtually no support?

Everybody knows Hurlford is a tiny place and that they’d be bottom feeders if it wasn’t for Tarmac mans cash.

 

The attendances outside the few teams are very poor junior or EoS/LL

What is quite clear whilst the EoS/LL has the status the original teams clearly have not been an attraction to the paying public.   In nearly every away game we have broken the home teams best season attendance (probably the same applies to Bonnyrigg and Penicuik)

At such an organised level (pyramid) you would expect that there would be an attraction for spectators - that's debatable as without the influx of the East Juniors the attendances are low double digits in the main.  Not to mention the if but maybe debate of the PWG.

It seems clear that work is still required.

 

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

The attendances outside the few teams are very poor junior or EoS/LL

What is quite clear whilst the EoS/LL has the status the original teams clearly have not been an attraction to the paying public.   In nearly every away game we have broken the home teams best season attendance (probably the same applies to Bonnyrigg and Penicuik)

At such an organised level (pyramid) you would expect that there would be an attraction for spectators - that's debatable as without the influx of the East Juniors the attendances are low double digits in the main.  Not to mention the if but maybe debate of the PWG.

It seems clear that work is still required.

 

That's hardly a revelation though, everyone knew that Junior football was better supported than EoS and most of the LL (which is largely made-up of old EoS anyway).

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

The attendances outside the few teams are very poor junior or EoS/LL

What is quite clear whilst the EoS/LL has the status the original teams clearly have not been an attraction to the paying public.   In nearly every away game we have broken the home teams best season attendance (probably the same applies to Bonnyrigg and Penicuik)

At such an organised level (pyramid) you would expect that there would be an attraction for spectators - that's debatable as without the influx of the East Juniors the attendances are low double digits in the main.  Not to mention the if but maybe debate of the PWG.

It seems clear that work is still required.

 

Where are you going to pull the extra people from I think we have to be realistic here you might gain 5 -10 more. Your not over night going to double your following.

 

Our attendances are up dispite losing a few faces who didn't like that the committee did what they bit by doing it that way meant we were leading the way as we were one of the first bunch of applicants where as these people wanted us to follow boness and linlithgow and they were dragging their heels

[Burnieclub78]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

The attendances outside the few teams are very poor junior or EoS/LL

What is quite clear whilst the EoS/LL has the status the original teams clearly have not been an attraction to the paying public.   In nearly every away game we have broken the home teams best season attendance (probably the same applies to Bonnyrigg and Penicuik)

At such an organised level (pyramid) you would expect that there would be an attraction for spectators - that's debatable as without the influx of the East Juniors the attendances are low double digits in the main.  Not to mention the if but maybe debate of the PWG.

It seems clear that work is still required.

 

Linlithgow, Bonnyrigg, Penicuik and Bo'ness just to name a few are in my opinion pulling in healthy crowds at the level they are playing. Then again so is Ormiston, Blackburn etc if you look at population. The 4 big names above have population's between 15,000 - 20,000 approx. Ormiston population 2,000 average att 53, Blackburn population 5,300 average att 83 at present. ( past few seasons 90-100). I'm not for one minute saying this is the only factor but surely bigger population helps with bigger crowds? Of course better engagement with community ,  advertising of games and winning would possibly help clubs. Sometimes the populations can be forgotten when looking at figures. Population example: Ormiston v Linlithgow Rose ( linlithgow pop 8/9 times higher) so let's say 53 (Ormiston average)  x 8/9 = 424 / 477 

As I say some clubs with what look like not so well supported teams, actually do get a healthy local support for the size of village / town. Some others really struggle even with smaller and larger populations. Definitely more  work to do by all, its definitely possible to increase crowds. Match day experience for spectators should in my opinion be top priority. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Burnieclub78

[Skipper]

I am confident that next season the EOS Premier crowds will match anything from  the old Juniors and be significantly higher than the rump east region juniors.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, Skipper said:

Not so. A Rose Bo’ness cup final would more than match it. Over 1800 at Fife & Lothians cup final down in Boness when we were in juniors

As pretty much everyone is still in it, hopefully there can be a well supported final in the King Cup.

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, Skipper said:

Not so. A Rose Bo’ness cup final would more than match it. Over 1800 at Fife & Lothians cup final down in Boness when we were in juniors

That's the main thing we've lost - if we face Bo'ness in, say, the King Cup final we'll get a crowd of a similar level again, likely under 2,000. Maybe a bit more as we haven't played them in a year. But when we met in a Junior Cup semi final in 2003 (IIRC) there were nearly 10,000, and I'm sure it would be similar if we'd face them in a Junior Cup final more recently. The draw of the name of the Junior Cup stretches a long way beyond the usual supporters.

[Skipper]

56 minutes ago, GordonS said:

That's the main thing we've lost - if we face Bo'ness in, say, the King Cup final we'll get a crowd of a similar level again, likely under 2,000. Maybe a bit more as we haven't played them in a year. But when we met in a Junior Cup semi final in 2003 (IIRC) there were nearly 10,000, and I'm sure it would be similar if we'd face them in a Junior Cup final more recently. The draw of the name of the Junior Cup stretches a long way beyond the usual supporters.

Officially the crowd was given as 7,400 but anyone who was there knows there was over 9,000 . There were only empty seats in the segregation split and behind one goal.   

[Skipper]

Should also say if ourselves and Boness are both in premier next season a crowd of 1000 plus is likely even for the league matches.  Has the EOS league had a crowd of over 1000 in recent times or even ever ?

[parsforlife]

Should also say if ourselves and Boness are both in premier next season a crowd of 1000 plus is likely even for the league matches.  Has the EOS league had a crowd of over 1000 in recent times or even ever ?

Think kelty vs LTHV got pretty close?

[pipedreamer]

32 minutes ago, gogsy said:

 

Swing and a miss yet again from the wee rose

Seen  a few references to crowd of 1400

https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=870330%3Bguest=248531896

https://piesontheterraces.wordpress.com/2018/04/28/kelty-hearts-v-lothian-thistle-hutchison-vale/

http://groundhopper.scot/east-of-scotland-league/game-24-kelty-hearts-v-lothian-thistle-hutchinson-vale/

And that was without many/if any travelling support from lthv. A fantastic day in the sunshine. Big crowd v Bonnyrigg on trophy day the season before also, what could have been another couple hundred if rose had managed to take it to a decider rather than falling to lithgae mid week before.

[GordonS]

5 hours ago, Skipper said:

Officially the crowd was given as 7,400 but anyone who was there knows there was over 9,000 . There were only empty seats in the segregation split and behind one goal.   

Yeah, once we got in we had difficulty actually finding a seat. There's no way there was more than one seat in ten empty.

A great crowd, and then a terrible game .

5 hours ago, pipedreamer said:

And that was without many/if any travelling support from lthv. A fantastic day in the sunshine. Big crowd v Bonnyrigg on trophy day the season before also, what could have been another couple hundred if rose had managed to take it to a decider rather than falling to lithgae mid week before.

Bonnyrigg were playing classic Junior fixtures catch-up and were knackered by the time we came to town. Obviously it was good to win but I did feel a bit sorry for them, without the backlog they could have won that league. By the end of that game there were a few guys breathing through... an orifice not designed for that purpose.

[Auld Heid]

15 hours ago, Burnieclub78 said:

Linlithgow, Bonnyrigg, Penicuik and Bo'ness just to name a few are in my opinion pulling in healthy crowds at the level they are playing. Then again so is Ormiston, Blackburn etc if you look at population. The 4 big names above have population's between 15,000 - 20,000 approx. Ormiston population 2,000 average att 53, Blackburn population 5,300 average att 83 at present. ( past few seasons 90-100). I'm not for one minute saying this is the only factor but surely bigger population helps with bigger crowds? Of course better engagement with community ,  advertising of games and winning would possibly help clubs. Sometimes the populations can be forgotten when looking at figures. Population example: Ormiston v Linlithgow Rose ( linlithgow pop 8/9 times higher) so let's say 53 (Ormiston average)  x 8/9 = 424 / 477 

As I say some clubs with what look like not so well supported teams, actually do get a healthy local support for the size of village / town. Some others really struggle even with smaller and larger populations. Definitely more  work to do by all, its definitely possible to increase crowds. Match day experience for spectators should in my opinion be top priority. 

Personally for me a decent crowd adds to the atmosphere/banter.  Unfortunately when you have some of the smaller crowds it can feel like watching a friendly.

I appreciate times change and crowds are dropping from yester year for various reasons - but for some of the teams to me the logic  behind their efforts is akin to running a shop with no customers (you just wouldn't).

 

 

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

Personally for me a decent crowd adds to the atmosphere/banter.  Unfortunately when you have some of the smaller crowds it can feel like watching a friendly.

I appreciate times change and crowds are dropping from yester year for various reasons - but for some of the teams to me the logic  behind their efforts is akin to running a shop with no customers (you just wouldn't).

Should Ormiston therefore give-up on their efforts to improve themselves? Craigroyston? Tweedmouth? Eyemouth? etc  isn't the point of a Pyramid that clubs operate in an environment that suit their circumstances and if these improve they move up, get worse they move down?

[newcastle broon]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Should Ormiston therefore give-up on their efforts to improve themselves? Craigroyston? Tweedmouth? Eyemouth? etc  isn't the point of a Pyramid that clubs operate in an environment that suit their circumstances and if these improve they move up, get worse they move down?

Think he's not quite got over and still seething from the 3-3 draw burnieman 

Every club has the right to be in the pyramid whether large or small. It's easy to support the bigger teams, small supported clubs wi hard working committees with no honours for years deserve as much recognition as clubs getting 400+ crowds a week imo. 

It's all  about the love of the game.

[cookieboy]

49 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Think he's not quite got over and still seething from the 3-3 draw burnieman 

Every club has the right to be in the pyramid whether large or small. It's easy to support the bigger teams, small supported clubs wi hard working committees with no honours for years deserve as much recognition as clubs getting 400+ crowds a week imo. 

It's all  about the love of the game.

As you say it’s easy to support the big teams and the committees deserve more credit as very often these clubs are run by fewer volunteers 

The pyramid system is all about finding your level unfortunately it is being poorly managed by the SFA