Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Not true in the slightest, that is you trying to confuse the picture again. This is the timeline of events The SJFA sat on the PWG for years before Kelty left, they sat there and continually said their members weren’t interested. At every AGM, TJ would say “Nothing to update/No progress” East Champions Kelty Hearts formally leave Junior football in June 2017. Clubs begin to talk, the thread on the Junior forum began and people started to look at what was on offer and ask questions. Dalkeith Thistle declared in Jan 2018 they were leaving SJFA circulate a survey to clubs on joining the Pyramid, one of the options they wanted was tier 5 alongside the Lowland League. 99 clubs say they’re interested in Pyramid, 54 I think said they weren’t. Over the course of the next few months 25 clubs in East along with Dunipace and Clydebank leave and join EoS (Clydebank eventually deferred after SJFA threats over ground share) SJFA AGM in June 2018 voted overwhelmingly they want to join, as an intact body. Reported back to the SFA, SFA ask PWG to work on implementing this. PWG begin discussing how they can integrate Juniors into the Pyramid, which is ongoing. At no point in the process was the SJFA ever “invited” by the SFA to join, nor was there any agreement over how it would or could happen. The SJFA’s position has always been - and still is - they join the Pyramid as an intact Association with everyone on board or it’s no deal. You know the SJFAs position despite not being at the AGM or involved in a Junior club. Are you seriously trying to say that SFA didn’t ask the Juniors to be involved in the pyramid? Edited February 21, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Kilbowie Benches said: You know the SJFAs position despite not being at the AGM or involved in a Junior club. Is anything I have printed above incorrect? if the SJFA have a mandate to break up the Regions feel free to post the evidence, however it doesn't take much searching on here (or in the media) to find out what vote was taken at AGM last year......... "The only vote that was taken was in the Special General Meeting held immediately before the AGM and an overwhelming majority gave the SJFA the remit to join the pyramid in principle subject to terms and conditions. Outwith that it was a very straight forward, business like, AGM since very few clubs had anything to say." If the SJFA wanted to take some regions into the Pyramid and leave some behind I think clubs would have had something to say, but they didn't because at that point it wasn't even given a second thought, only 4 clubs voted against moving to the Pyramid. If the NRJFA have indeed changed their minds and want to be left behind, the SJFA will need an EGM to agree it, and come up with a plan on how to administer it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Is anything I have printed above incorrect? if the SJFA have a mandate to break up the Regions feel free to post the evidence, however it doesn't take much searching on here (or in the media) to find out what vote was taken at AGM last year......... "The only vote that was taken was in the Special General Meeting held immediately before the AGM and an overwhelming majority gave the SJFA the remit to join the pyramid in principle subject to terms and conditions. Outwith that it was a very straight forward, business like, AGM since very few clubs had anything to say." If the SJFA wanted to take some regions into the Pyramid and leave some behind I think clubs would have had something to say, but they didn't because at that point it wasn't even given a second thought, only 4 clubs voted against moving to the Pyramid. If the NRJFA have indeed changed their minds and want to be left behind, the SJFA will need an EGM to agree it, and come up with a plan on how to administer it. Doesn’t say anything about it having to be all at once in what you’ve posted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said: Doesn’t say anything about it having to be all at once in what you’ve posted? Clubs are well aware of the mandate TJ was given when the LL was first mooted, all-in with our structure intact or not interested. At one AGM around 6 years ago he said that until the clubs gave him a different mandate, then that would be his approach at Pyramid meetings, nobody said a word. Feel free to go and ask him if you want, but this has not changed, and clubs would have voted last June on that basis. Edited February 21, 2019 by Burnie_man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Clubs are well aware of the mandate TJ was given when the LL was first mooted, all-in with our structure intact or not interested. At one AGM around 6 years ago he said that until the clubs gave him a different mandate, then that would be his approach at Pyramid meetings, nobody said a word. Feel free to go and ask him if you want, but this has not changed, and clubs would have voted last June on that basis. You never answered the post you quoted? Where does it say anywhere that it’s every region into the pyramid at the same time or not at all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Kilbowie Benches said: You never answered the post you quoted? Where does it say anywhere that it’s every region into the pyramid at the same time or not at all? I did, the mandate TJ was given years ago has not changed. Now, I personally think he should seek a change to that mandate in order to get the West Region on board for next season and free itself of the issues in the North and East, nobody objects to that happening, but will Junior clubs agree to a split. It's the big unanswered question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: I did, the mandate TJ was given years ago has not changed. Now, I personally think he should seek a change to that mandate in order to get the West Region on board for next season and free itself of the issues in the North and East, nobody objects to that happening, but will Junior clubs agree to a split. It's the big unanswered question. There isn’t a mandate for every region to join at once.They all voted to join the pyramid and that will happen.If it takes the North another year then that’s what will happen. They will all still be in the SJFA and in the Junior Cup whether they’re in the pyramid or not. Edited February 21, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 There isn’t a mandate for every region to join at once.They all voted to join the pyramid and that will happen.If it takes the North another year then that’s what will happen. They will all still be in the SJFA and in the Junior Cup whether they’re in the pyramid or not.Ok these are the extracts from the 2008 and 2009 SJFA AGM agenda. I could look out more but this should be enough to underline the point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Ok these are the extracts from the 2008 and 2009 SJFA AGM agenda. I could look out more but this should be enough to underline the point. Things have moved on a bit since 2009!! Edited February 21, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Kilbowie Benches said: Things have moved on a bit since 2009!! But the mandate TJ operates under hasn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: But the mandate TJ operates under hasn't. You think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Things have moved on a bit since 2009!!Had no idea the pwg went back as far as 2001. The more you know eh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Ok these are the extracts from the 2008 and 2009 SJFA AGM agenda. I could look out more but this should be enough to underline the point. Going by those he can probably get away with saying that the Association structure will remain intact. That's one thing he seems to be sticking to (what with his job being dependent on it). He just won't be delivering an entry to the pyramid and potentially licensing for all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Going by those he can probably get away with saying that the Association structure will remain intact. That's one thing he seems to be sticking to (what with his job being dependent on it). He just won't be delivering an entry to the pyramid and potentially licensing for all. If he cant deliver the Pyramid to all at the same time in the same move (keeping the structure intact), then he would need to go back to the membership and seek their agreement. He should if he wants the West in for next season, nobody disputes that they should be coming on board, the problems lie elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: If he cant deliver the Pyramid to all at the same time in the same move (keeping the structure intact), then he would need to go back to the membership and seek their agreement. He should if he wants the West in for next season, nobody disputes that they should be coming on board, the problems lie elsewhere. You’re just making things up to suit your agenda! The Association will remain intact whether there’s different regions in the pyramid or not to begin with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just now, Kilbowie Benches said: You’re just making things up to suit your agenda! The Association will remain intact whether there’s different regions in the pyramid or not to begin with. All you are trying to do, as someone pointed out yesterday is "obfuscate intentionally, muddying the waters to confuse the debate" All I have done is post the facts as they are, if they are wrong then feel free to post evidence to the contrary, you haven't so far. I'll keep posting facts as and when I have them and it's for others to decide to believe me or not. What is does highlight is the absurdity of the SJFA being involed, the leagues themselves (or regional associations) should be round the PWG table instead of TJ (that was questioned in one of the minutes posted). Each need different solutions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilbowie Benches Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: All you are trying to do, as someone pointed out yesterday is "obfuscate intentionally, muddying the waters to confuse the debate" All I have done is post the facts as they are, if they are wrong then feel free to post evidence to the contrary, you haven't so far. I'll keep posting facts as and when I have them and it's for others to decide to believe me or not. What is does highlight is the absurdity of the SJFA being involed, the leagues themselves (or regional associations) should be round the PWG table instead of TJ (that was questioned in one of the minutes posted). Each need different solutions. Questioned and answered. Nit picking and trying to go over old ground seems to be the EoS tactic.From reading the minutes it would seem everyone else has had enough of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Questioned and answered. Nit picking and trying to go over old ground seems to be the EoS tactic.From reading the minutes it would seem everyone else has had enough of it.If wanting everyone to be treated equally on discipline and sticking to the rules with the play-offs is nit picking then hopefully there's more of it.What was it the SJFA threatened Clydebank with to stop you joining the EoS last season, banning you from ground sharing with Junior clubs? Strange bedfellows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestman54 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: All you are trying to do, as someone pointed out yesterday is "obfuscate intentionally, muddying the waters to confuse the debate" All I have done is post the facts as they are, if they are wrong then feel free to post evidence to the contrary, you haven't so far. I'll keep posting facts as and when I have them and it's for others to decide to believe me or not. What is does highlight is the absurdity of the SJFA being involed, the leagues themselves (or regional associations) should be round the PWG table instead of TJ (that was questioned in one of the minutes posted). Each need different solutions. I dont know why you just dont ignore him Burnie_man, he would have no ammunition then to keep spouting this garbage and annoying the hell out of the rest of us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 I dont know why you just dont ignore him Burnie_man, he would have no ammunition then to keep spouting this garbage and annoying the hell out of the rest of usJust providing some facts to counter his baseless claims. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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