Pyramid 2019/2020

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, superbigal said:

7 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

You never play for Tayport

Only on tours. Went from local amateurs to highland league. Tayport had an established keeper back then so decided on jeanfield on my return from up north. Beat Tayport who were almost invincible in my first game against them in 93 or 94 I think.

Fraser Mann was it not that was keeper in 96 final but we got our revenge in 99 in the 4th round beating tayport 2-1 at canniepart

[superbigal]

Breadalbine I think ad well. Told 4x10 is the plan.

[Burnie_man]

My undestanding also of the east juniors strategy to keep and attract clubs is indeed going to be to reduce travel. If they lose Lothian teams like Fauldhouse they are undoubtedly in trouble. They do want to retain relegation though. The plan is hopefully to get to 40 teams from the current 36. Split them into a north and south with 2 leagues of 10. Playing 36 league games 2 home and 2 away. North and South top league winners playoff for the champion. Not had a chance to look at where this split would come yet.

This is exactly where Maxwell should be directing his energies and getting the ERJFA and the EoS together to talk turkey if he wants a quick solution. It's crazy to have two seperate semi-pro leagues operating in the east of Scotland competing for clubs.

However, Maxwell seems to listen to TJ a little too much.

[Guest]

In keeping with the spirit of devil's advocate..... 

Would any of the clubs currently plying their trade in the eosfl (now the better standard of league out of the eosfl and ersjfa) move back to play against what is left? 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although I don't think it should happen, if the ersjfa do get in at tier 6, would it be that bad for business? I can't see many clubs applying to go back the way, and if they did, would they be accepted? 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Guest

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, G4Mac said:

In keeping with the spirit of devil's advocate..... 

Would any if the clubs currently plying their trade in the eosfl (now the better standard of league out if the eosfl and ersjfa) move back to play against Tayport, Fauldhouse and Whitburn? 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although I don't think it should happen, if the ersjfa do get in at tier 6, would it be that bad for business? I can't see many clubs applying to go back the way, and if they did, would they be accepted? 

surely would need to go to tier 7 though

[superbigal]

All I'm saying is Burnie having read everything, I would not be overly surprised if Maxwell plays loan wolf and steamrolls through what you genuinely believe the rules cannot allow.

 

 

[superbigal]

In keeping with the spirit of devil's advocate..... 

Would any of the clubs currently plying their trade in the eosfl (now the better standard of league out of the eosfl and ersjfa) move back to play against what is left? 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although I don't think it should happen, if the ersjfa do get in at tier 6, would it be that bad for business? I can't see many clubs applying to go back the way, and if they did, would they be accepted? 

Yes in the likely 2 second divisions. So potentially no lower than a non promoted eos club.

 

[GNU_Linux]

My undestanding also of the east juniors strategy to keep and attract clubs is indeed going to be to reduce travel. If they lose Lothian teams like Fauldhouse they are undoubtedly in trouble. They do want to retain relegation though. The plan is hopefully to get to 40 teams from the current 36. Split them into a north and south with 2 leagues of 10. Playing 36 league games 2 home and 2 away. North and South top league winners playoff for the champion. Not had a chance to look at where this split would come yet.

I assume this would have a knock on effect on cups? Seems likely that new league cup brought in to increase games would be scrapped.

The Preston manager indicated in a radio interview the EOS had recieved applications for membership including from West Lothian. Im assuming these clubs are junior & not ammies. If said clubs do move it'd hamper plans to reach the magic 40.

[Burnie_man]

All I'm saying is Burnie I would not be overly surprised if Maxwell plays loan wolf and steamrolls through what you genuinely believe the rules cannot allow.

He can't do it though, what mechamisms are there for him to do it? He also cannot act alone.

Remember the PWG is just an informal meeting of leagues who meet to help facilitate change. How can the SFA force all 3 individual leagues (LL, EoS, SoS) to agree to change the play-off rules?

There is no history of the SFA ever attempting it as far as I am aware. If they even tried it would lead to a stramash and an even bigger mess.

[superbigal]

I assume this would have a knock on effect on cups? Seems likely that new league cup brought in to increase games would be scrapped. The Preston manager indicated in a radio interview the EOS had recieved applications for membership including from West Lothian. Im assuming these clubs are junior & not ammies. If said clubs do move it'd hamper plans to reach the magic 40.

 

I reckon local football and also tier 6 (If it happens) ,will keep certain teams in Lothian happy.But you are correct and that is why I think it will be announced shortly.If teams still leave it will be back to drawing board.

 

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

I reckon local football and also tier 6 (If it happens) ,will keep certain teams in Lothian happy.But you are correct and that is why I think it will be announced shortly.If teams still leave it will be back to drawing board and a Tayside breakaway league would really not surprise me.
That is me talking btw and no one else.
 
 

Dont they need to have an egm or agm to make changes to league structure?

[superbigal]

Dont they need to have an egm or agm to make changes to league structure?

No idea bud. I'm a fan with a big gub and set of lugs [emoji3] [emoji3] [emoji3]

 

Like you I expect

[superbigal]

Anyway signing off for the night as large gin and tonic got my name on it.

[Burnie_man]

No idea bud. I'm a fan with a big gub and set of lugs [emoji3] [emoji3] [emoji3]

Lol, they do. Any changes to rules (ie league structure) need the approval of clubs at an egm or agm.

What also needs an egm or agm is the SJFA if they want some regions to enter the pyramid and some are left behind. They also need it for the raft of rule changes required by the SFA.

[Burnie_man]

Anyway signing off for the night as large gin and tonic got my name on it.

Enjoy.

[Robert James]

56 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

He can't do it though, what mechamisms are there for him to do it? He also cannot act alone.

Remember the PWG is just an informal meeting of leagues who meet to help facilitate change. How can the SFA force all 3 individual leagues (LL, EoS, SoS) to agree to change the play-off rules?

There is no history of the SFA ever attempting it as far as I am aware. If they even tried it would lead to a stramash and an even bigger mess.

I am sad to say this, but in my view this matter is likely to go to litigation at sometime in the future, especially if the decision making process has not been ratified by the nominated bodies, if due diligence has not been followed. This includes consultation with all of the relevant Leagues & Associations, before  a decision is made. 

Currently it is clear that :

* the Lowland League catchment area is governed by the existing boundary, and its recent invitation to clubs to apply for membership, makes it clear that the Tay Bridge is the Highland/Lowland boundary. It appears that 2 junior clubs not located within its recognised catchment area, have already been refused entry in accordance with the currently agreed  boundary as approved by the SFA

* in consequence, SPFL clubs (eg Brechin, Forfar, Montrose, Arbroath, Dundee Utd, etc) if they are relegated (in the future) from tier 4, could contest which tier 5 league they are relegated into, quoting "precedent" based upon decisions now being promulgated by the PWG sub group, which these clubs have not been consulted about, nor voted on. Likewise if a licensed north of Tay club, subsequently wins the EoS, it could insist on promotion to the Lowland League, contrary to its current constitution and rules of membership 

* since the Pyramid has been created, the East of Scotland League has been the ONLY "feeder league" in the East. If a second pyramid feeder league is created which covers (primarily) the same geographical are, without its agreement,  there is also a strong basis for litigation, from the League itself, or an  EoS club, if it is defeated by an ERSJA club, in a  promotion play-off 

* the above matters have NOT been considered/agreed by the full SFA at an AGM or EGM, although as the parent body for the pyramid, it would surely be the respondent in law, for any such legal challenge resulting the above examples, currently, or in the future ?

In the event of litigation, it is the lawyers who benefit, whilst the various participants have to 'foot the bill'. Meanwhile Scottish non league football remains in a state of flux (or chaos ?), and is open to ridicule from all parties.

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Robert James
typo

[Burnie_man]

The part that is often overlooked in this is that the SJFA are being allowed to oversee their own discipline due to the SFA allegedly not having enough resource. I understand that this hasn’t been met with universal approval (it's going to lead to inconsistencies without a doubt). It’s the SFA’s Pyramid therefore they should employ enough staff to cover this;

"LD confirmed that TJ had amended the SJFA Disciplinary Procedures to bring them into line with the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Procedures. The only difference was that the SJFA would continue to issue fines. The Claims Process would also mirror the Scottish FA’s process and requires clubs to produce video evidence. LD mentioned that the SJFA process for Team Staff discipline was more severe than the Scottish FA. LD stated that she was more than happy with the progress made by SJFA and would continue to work with TJ where required.

AR and JG declared their disappointment that SJFA club discipline would not be dealt with by Scottish FA. LD stated that this was not possible due to resource and that SJFA leagues would continue to administer their own discipline."

Also, anyone any idea what this may refer to?

"AR also asked about the obligation on SJFA clubs to comply with audit regulations. TJ confirmed clubs require to do this at the moment."

If this is in any way referring to club finances, no club is required to submit any financial data to the SJFA.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

The part that is often overlooked in this is that the SJFA are being allowed to oversee their own discipline due to the SFA allegedly not having enough resource. I understand that this hasn’t been met with universal approval (it's going to lead to inconsistencies without a doubt). It’s the SFA’s Pyramid therefore they should employ enough staff to cover this;

"LD confirmed that TJ had amended the SJFA Disciplinary Procedures to bring them into line with the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Procedures. The only difference was that the SJFA would continue to issue fines. The Claims Process would also mirror the Scottish FA’s process and requires clubs to produce video evidence. LD mentioned that the SJFA process for Team Staff discipline was more severe than the Scottish FA. LD stated that she was more than happy with the progress made by SJFA and would continue to work with TJ where required.

AR and JG declared their disappointment that SJFA club discipline would not be dealt with by Scottish FA. LD stated that this was not possible due to resource and that SJFA leagues would continue to administer their own discipline."

Also, anyone any idea what this may refer to?

"AR also asked about the obligation on SJFA clubs to comply with audit regulations. TJ confirmed clubs require to do this at the moment."

If this is in any way referring to club finances, no club is required to submit any financial data to the SJFA.

In terms of the SJFA still issuing fines, I just saw that as them trying make money. Presumably they pocket thousands a season from it.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

In terms of the SJFA still issuing fines, I just saw that as them trying make money. Presumably they pocket thousands a season from it.

Well they make around £15k a season from re-instatements, a rule which is now being binned.

I just can't work out why the SFA are agreeing to this, surely the fines from these extra clubs helps pay for at least one new member of staff to administer it, if not why not. It's the Junior Regions that issue fines anyway and do the discipline for leagues games and local cups.  Is it another way of TJ trying to keep the SJFA relevant?

[The Mantis]

14 hours ago, superbigal said:

14 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

You never play for Tayport

Only on tours. Went from local amateurs to highland league. Tayport had an established keeper back then so decided on jeanfield on my return from up north. Beat Tayport who were almost invincible in my first game against them in 93 or 94 I think.

Did you play HL then or do you mean on tour with Tayport?