FairWeatherFan Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, ShrimpLok said: Maybe the best solution is just to open LL2 applications and promise at least 50% of acceptances will be from Strathclyde / D&G. Then see how many teams apply. If 8-10 apply from west then go with a LL2. If they get 16-20 applicants then establish a LL2E and LL2W immediately. 2 year grace period for licensing with only licensed teams able to go up to LL. Pyramid solved. I think that's how they should do it. Announce LL2, open it up to applications. If they get a good enough spread split geographically otherwise its a single division. Knowing that there's a lot of clubs in the EoS that won't have a problem signing up, it should get enough West of Scotland clubs applying as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Long term we should be looking at tier 6 being licensed(or at least all in process) the doesn't matter if that is EoS premier or LL2(in whatever form). Something like the LL rules on day1 (clubs have 2 years)Think that would provide a good progression plan. Rightly Never going to happen with tier 6 containing some very small clubs, but once a established system develops (I.e removal of conferences) it should e achievable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 The other reason to create a LL2, whether single division or W/E. Is that it moves the SoS down a Tier without them losing face. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amigan Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Again I would reiterate there is no need for L2 East that is basically the EoS premier. The west needs to be sorted out and the LL should show some initiative in setting up a feeder League for the WoS. In terms of the SoS that should be shown the respect it deserves and if needed cover south Ayrshire too. We should be looking for to increase promotion to two possibly three if an 18 team LL League. It seems the main problem is the LL HL divide. Other than Tayside everything seems to sort itself out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 The SoS should be shown some respect, yes, but it is effectively an amateur league with historical senior status. It cannot be on the same level long-term as the EoS without significantly expanding its catchment area. I still feel like the league and clubs wouldn't object too much about dropping down the levels because I don't think most of them have ambitions to be in the LL. If it does drop down a level of two then licensed clubs should be given the option to stay at a higher level if they choose. Creating a LL 2 East/West would help solve some problems including the SoS issue and it would strengthen the LL as a whole and I think it would help it in terms of gaining automatic promotion spots to the SPFL longer term. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 9 hours ago, amigan said: Again I would reiterate there is no need for L2 East that is basically the EoS premier. The west needs to be sorted out and the LL should show some initiative in setting up a feeder League for the WoS. In terms of the SoS that should be shown the respect it deserves and if needed cover south Ayrshire too. We should be looking for to increase promotion to two possibly three if an 18 team LL League. It seems the main problem is the LL HL divide. Other than Tayside everything seems to sort itself out. I wouldn't think the LL would go to the bother of setting up a LL West without doing similar in the East to ensure they fully cover tiers 5 and 6. The LL wont go to 18 clubs either (unlikely if they're looking at a second division), I think the SFA would like to see the HL reduce to 16 as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 16 hours ago, Burnie_man said: Aye but you were talking about dividing the EoS, not the LL. There will be a 16 team EoS Premier next season and some clubs in it wont be Licenced, that is where we are at the moment. There are no instant solutions. Your suggestion would place Sauchie and Bo'ness in tier 7 and Coldstream and Burntisland in tier 5. 2018-19 is a transitional season and that gave teams perfect opportunity to make steps towards applying for a licence. Both Sauchie and Bo'ness are long established teams and have very little excuse not to be taking the required steps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Auld Heid said: 2018-19 is a transitional season and that gave teams perfect opportunity to make steps towards applying for a licence. Both Sauchie and Bo'ness are long established teams and have very little excuse not to be taking the required steps. Yet you said at the time this was all happening last year that the Pyramid places should be based on playing merit and nothing else when it looked like Dalkeith and Blackburn were in, but not Linlithgow, so make up yer mind! The EoS are going about this exactly the right way, determining future structure on playing merit whilst encouraging clubs to get Licenced - 17 of which are currently doing that - and new clubs to join. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Yet you said at the time this was all happening last year that the Pyramid places should be based on playing merit and nothing else when it looked like Dalkeith and Blackburn were in, but not Linlithgow, so make up yer mind! The EoS are going about this exactly the right way, determining future structure on playing merit whilst encouraging clubs to get Licenced - 17 of which are currently doing that - and new clubs to join. That's perfectly correct - that's how it should have been done and that is still my own personal view - nothing to do with Linlithgow. But that's in the past and the decision was to allow clubs in on application alone. Now in a transition season many clubs are making the effort to get licenced and should be applauded for their efforts. A transition season should also be about getting your house in order on/off the field. At the end of this season progression could still be decided on Licensing over playing merit? If that's correct - then again personally I think that's wrong. If Licensing is going to be a driver on progression - then it makes sense to organise clubs in that manner so it removes barriers to progression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: That's perfectly correct - that's how it should have been done and that is still my own personal view - nothing to do with Linlithgow. But that's in the past and the decision was to allow clubs in on application alone. Now in a transition season many clubs are making the effort to get licenced and should be applauded for their efforts. A transition season should also be about getting your house in order on/off the field. At the end of this season progression could still be decided on Licensing over playing merit? If that's correct - then again personally I think that's wrong. If Licensing is going to be a driver on progression - then it makes sense to organise clubs in that manner so it removes barriers to progression. Sometimes I think you even struggle to understand the point you're making. Having or not having a Licence will not effect how the EoS structure is decided for next season, and rightly so. Blackburn should get into the EoS Premier based on finishing in the top 5, not on the basis of being awarded a Licence. What might happen, is that a LL2 comes along and applications are invited, with Licenced clubs given priority. Would you be happy with that or not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Auld Heid said: At the end of this season progression could still be decided on Licensing over playing merit? If that's correct - then again personally I think that's wrong. There will always be a level at which you need a licence or need to meet other requirements for promotion (better floodlights for the SPFL, Bronze ground for tiers 1 and 2). The only way you can avoid that is by changing the requirements so you don't need a licence for tier 5 (not going to happen), or by removing all unlicensed teams from the pyramid. Neither option is sensible. Though what could be done in the future is to allow the runners-up to be promoted if the tier 6 champions aren't licensed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Burnie_man said: Sometimes I think you even struggle to understand the point you're making. Having or not having a Licence will not effect how the EoS structure is decided for next season, and rightly so. Blackburn should get into the EoS Premier based on finishing in the top 5, not on the basis of being awarded a Licence. What might happen, is that a LL2 comes along and applications are invited, with Licenced clubs given priority. Would you be happy with that or not? Think that the LL whether it be 1 or 2 divisions would be the logical point for compulsory licencing to be necessary. East of Scotland is a fantastic set up where it needn't be compulsory, in all likelihood there are teams within the EoS that won't be promoted out of it in my lifetime, that's the whole point of the pyramid and 'finding your level', new requirement for getting a licence smoothes the way for clubs moving into the SPFL if reality matches ambition, hate to see a successful LL team unable to take a promotion place because of a lack of licence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, RobM said: Think that the LL whether it be 1 or 2 divisions would be the logical point for compulsory licencing to be necessary. East of Scotland is a fantastic set up where it needn't be compulsory, in all likelihood there are teams within the EoS that won't be promoted out of it in my lifetime, that's the whole point of the pyramid and 'finding your level', new requirement for getting a licence smoothes the way for clubs moving into the SPFL if reality matches ambition, hate to see a successful LL team unable to take a promotion place because of a lack of licence. Tier 6 will eventually be subject to Licencing I expect, and it may be easier via the Lowland League operating at that level, leaving the EoS to be "optional" for the forseeable future at tier 7 and below. At that point, they should consider either promoting unlicenced clubs between tiers 6 and 7 with a 12 month derogation to get a Licence, or go down to the runners-up or third place to find someone to promote if a Licence is required. That keeps things moving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 16 hours ago, Burnie_man said: Sometimes I think you even struggle to understand the point you're making. Having or not having a Licence will not effect how the EoS structure is decided for next season, and rightly so. Blackburn should get into the EoS Premier based on finishing in the top 5, not on the basis of being awarded a Licence. What might happen, is that a LL2 comes along and applications are invited, with Licenced clubs given priority. Would you be happy with that or not? So you don't need a license to progress from EoS to LL? The move from Junior to EoS was about participation in the Pyramid - finding your level - no ceilings etc. Surely if you don't have a licence then that is a ceiling for that team progressing from EoS to LL. As you refer 17 teams within the EoS are actively pursuing their licence - clearly with the view of being in a position to progress. My original point (understanding) was for the pyramid to work - teams have to be in a position to progress from EoS to LL (the next step in the Pyramid). This is a transition season - but next season you could have teams such as Bo'ness and Sauchie who have not applied for a licence - if either win the EoS next season they couldn't progress to LL. (Hopefully the other 17 will have gained their licence during 19/20). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 So you don't need a license to progress from EoS to LL? The move from Junior to EoS was about participation in the Pyramid - finding your level - no ceilings etc. Surely if you don't have a licence then that is a ceiling for that team progressing from EoS to LL. As you refer 17 teams within the EoS are actively pursuing their licence - clearly with the view of being in a position to progress. My original point (understanding) was for the pyramid to work - teams have to be in a position to progress from EoS to LL (the next step in the Pyramid). This is a transition season - but next season you could have teams such as Bo'ness and Sauchie who have not applied for a licence - if either win the EoS next season they couldn't progress to LL. (Hopefully the other 17 will have gained their licence during 19/20). EoS to Lowland League TWO. Tier 7 to 6. 12 month derogation. Sigh [emoji85] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I understand that the West Region management committee are meeting next week to discuss the pyramid and the disciplinary procedures. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 "Ye fancy it Shug, looks complicated?" "Nah no really, lets no bother, Talbot by ra way" "Mon ra Joonyurs!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 49 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: EoS to Lowland League TWO. Tier 7 to 6. 12 month derogation. Sigh That's where I would have it too. Would think it's better to ensure any clubs vying for a SPFL league place are ready for the step up from LL1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: "Ye fancy it Shug, looks complicated?" "Nah no really, lets no bother, Talbot by ra way" "Mon ra Joonyurs!" Heh heh, bit harsh (but maybe not entirely untrue). Hold my hands up and say I wasn't entirely convinced myself before this season. Organisation of the EoS has been brilliant and I've bought into it wholesale, once the leagues settle next season and beyond I can't see it getting anything but better. West Junior internal power games amongst the jaikits (not really suits in the Juniors) will still take a wee bit of sorting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, wishyman said: Beware the pyramid. Although jumping into bed with a bunch of vipers has its dangers also. Good luck with that. By its very nature football is self serving, they c***s in the East will take that to another level. They are not to be trusted, none of them. As I said in a previous thread, their product is gash and they only want you guys to improve it. Like the Tories, the SFA will lie, cheat do anything to get their business model through. The big boys will be lauded like Messiah's, lots of others will be playing on public parks. But hold on wishyman, they've got floodlights, they're Seniors. You couldn't fucking make it up. Boys in the West can't wait to get started in the Pyramid I also believe a certain East Region Junior Chairman at the weekend referred to those clubs who left last season as "traitors". They all exist in a weird Junior bubble..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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