Pyramid 2019/2020

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

SOS is tier 6 alongside the EOS.

I know LL & HL are regional. Your proposal would have going from national football to east/west leagues which are sub-regional ie sub-regions of established LL territory. A club dropping national football would be fine playing in the current lowland & its geographic scope from D&G to Fife.

Apologies, the SoS is of course at tier 6.

My approach is based on a desire that we have an all encompassing pyramid for football across the country. The move by so many of the East Region Juniors into the EOS seniors at the start of the season quickly demonstrated that the variation in the standard of clubs in both the LL and EOS leagues created many mismatches. I think that it is desirable that this is sorted out as soon as possible so that clubs can be assured of meeting teams of a similar standard going forward.

As it stands, progression between the LL to the SPFL and the EOS/SOS to the LL is shaped more like an egg timer than a pyramid.  Make it a true pyramid and open up access at all levels and provide the dynamics for ambitious clubs to progress rather than be hampered by those clubs whose sole ambition is to maintain the status quo. 

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

a Lowland League 1 or 2 with any regional split seems bit pointless as the EOS already exists which leads to two different leagues and orgs covering the same territory.

I guess the Lowland League want more control over the tier below them, which doesn't yet exist in the west and may still be under SJFA control if and when it does, perhaps the clubs dont fancy falling into an SJFA controlled league.  It's also a poweful message to the SPFL if they eventually end up with 48 Licenced clubs (LL1, LL2W, LL2E).  The EoS would slot in below that probably.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 Make it a true pyramid and open up access at all levels and provide the dynamics for ambitious clubs to progress rather than be hampered by those clubs whose sole ambition is to maintain the status quo. 

Give it time, we're getting there albeit slowly.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

a Lowland League 1 or 2 with any regional split seems bit pointless as the EOS already exists which leads to two different leagues and orgs covering the same territory.

 

 

but it wouldn't?

Surely any LL2 East would supplant EoS Premier at Tier 6 and the EoS organisation moves down a tier.

The reason to do it would be for the likes of licensing. The EoS is not likely to force its members to become licensed as that would stop the free movement between its divisions. Whereas the Lowland League would probably set licensing as one of the requirements for membership.

You would also be able to have a singular vision. Right now tier 6 could have competing interests between the Lowland League, EoS, SoS and SJFA. Lowland League, Lowland League 2 West and Lowland League 2 East solves most of the disfunction we're seeing with putting the pyramid in place.

[newcastle broon]

29 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Incorporating the North Juniors and North Caledonian Leagues into the regional pyramid for the HL  could provide a promotion/relegation setup there.

Sounds ideal but there would be licensing issues  ?

[GNU_Linux]

but it wouldn't?
Surely any LL2 East would supplant EoS Premier at Tier 6 and the EoS organisation moves down a tier.
The reason to do it would be for the likes of licensing. The EoS is not likely to force its members to become licensed as that would stop the free movement between its divisions. Whereas the Lowland League would probably set licensing as one of the requirements for membership.
You would also be able to have a singular vision. Right now tier 6 could have competing interests between the Lowland League, EoS, SoS and SJFA. Lowland League, Lowland League 2 West and Lowland League 2 East solves most of the disfunction we're seeing with putting the pyramid in place.

I know the EOS in this scenario gets bumped down & its not an EOS/ERJFA at tier 6 situation. My point was a LL2E at tier 6 would cover the same territory as the EOS at tier 7 but it'd be two different orgs. At that point you'd be as well merging the EOS into the LL. As I've stated before my oen preference is a 16 team LL2 composed of an 8/8 east/west split promoting two clubs every season to the LL.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, GNU_Linux said:

7 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

but it wouldn't?
Surely any LL2 East would supplant EoS Premier at Tier 6 and the EoS organisation moves down a tier.
The reason to do it would be for the likes of licensing. The EoS is not likely to force its members to become licensed as that would stop the free movement between its divisions. Whereas the Lowland League would probably set licensing as one of the requirements for membership.
You would also be able to have a singular vision. Right now tier 6 could have competing interests between the Lowland League, EoS, SoS and SJFA. Lowland League, Lowland League 2 West and Lowland League 2 East solves most of the disfunction we're seeing with putting the pyramid in place.

I know the EOS in this scenario gets bumped down & its not an EOS/ERJFA at tier 6 situation. My point was a LL2E at tier 6 would cover the same territory as the EOS at tier 7 but it'd be two different orgs. At that point you'd be as well merging the EOS into the LL. As I've stated before my oen preference is a 16 team LL2 composed of an 8/8 east/west split promoting two clubs every season to the LL.

The Lowland League already covers the same area as the EoS.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

but it wouldn't?
Surely any LL2 East would supplant EoS Premier at Tier 6 and the EoS organisation moves down a tier.
The reason to do it would be for the likes of licensing. The EoS is not likely to force its members to become licensed as that would stop the free movement between its divisions. Whereas the Lowland League would probably set licensing as one of the requirements for membership.
You would also be able to have a singular vision. Right now tier 6 could have competing interests between the Lowland League, EoS, SoS and SJFA. Lowland League, Lowland League 2 West and Lowland League 2 East solves most of the disfunction we're seeing with putting the pyramid in place.

I know the EOS in this scenario gets bumped down & its not an EOS/ERJFA at tier 6 situation. My point was a LL2E at tier 6 would cover the same territory as the EOS at tier 7 but it'd be two different orgs. At that point you'd be as well merging the EOS into the LL. As I've stated before my oen preference is a 16 team LL2 composed of an 8/8 east/west split promoting two clubs every season to the LL.

The Lowland League with West and East representation could attract more sponsorship and coverage than what the EoS could do. So there would likely be more benefits to being in a LL2 East than EoS Premier.

5 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Sounds ideal but there would be licensing issues  ?

No different than the current situation between the LL, EoS and SoS.

[GNU_Linux]

The Lowland League already covers the same area as the EoS.

my point was a theoretical lowland league 2 east would cover the same territory as the eos does as a feeder to the lowland league ie two regional leagues from two different bodies covering the same territory (albeit different levels)

 

 

 

[newcastle broon]

14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

No different than the current situation between the LL, EoS and SoS.

But at present ALL the LL are licensed and a fair amount of the EOSFL clubs heading that way. Seems far more advanced than any north juniors/Caledonian clubs are at if that is gonnae be the pyramid route ?

 

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

my point was a theoretical lowland league 2 east would cover the same territory as the eos does as a feeder to the lowland league ie two regional leagues from two different bodies covering the same territory.

 

But not at the same level, LL East would be tier 6, EoS Premier feeding into it from tier 7 so there isn't really an issue .    I think it would be more about providing a solution in the West and filling the gap at tier 6 that could eventually be filled by the SJFA.

Given the current impasse at the PWG, there will be WRJFA clubs looking at what they can do for next season and the LL could provide the solution.   It depends on their thinking and how quickly they want to move with this.  Maybe a single division is all they want, but they could be the catalyst for real progress if they went west and east.

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Burnie_man

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, newcastle broon said:

But at present ALL the LL are licensed and a fair amount of the EOSFL clubs heading that way. Seems far more advanced than any north juniors/Caledonian clubs are at if that is gonnae be the pyramid route ?

 

Look back two years ago when the EoS and SoS were a part of the pyramid and promotion and relegation was there between those leagues and the Lowland League.

SoS = 14 Clubs

EoS = 10 Clubs + 1 Reserve side

There might of been a total of 7 licensed sides at the time: Burntisland (EoS), Coldstream (EoS), Edusport (SoS), Threave Rovers (SoS), St Cuthbert Wanderers (SoS), Newton Stewart (SoS) and Wigtown & Bladnoch (SoS).

NCL = 9 Clubs

North Super League = 14 Clubs

2 Licensed Clubs = Golspie Sutherland and Banks O'Dee.

Open up access to licensing to the NCL and North Juniors (Tayside as well possibly). Who knows what state they would be in.

There's also the fact that the Highland League has said they would go to 20 before splitting. So you can get clubs into the pyramid, slowly promoted to the Highland League and then create a largely licensed Tier 6 league.

[Auld Heid]

Or simply divide the current EoS into divisions based upon - licensed tier 5 - applied for or soon to be licesed tier 6 and the rest tier 7.

 

 

 

 

[amigan]

Seems tme there is no real need for a LL East, the EoS effectively does this.  The Lowland League would be better simply setting up a WoS League to feed in.  

 

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Or simply divide the current EoS into divisions based upon - licensed tier 5 - applied for or soon to be licesed tier 6 and the rest tier 7.

The EoS don't operate at tier 5.

[Auld Heid]

The EoS don't operate at tier 5.

LL does and I was including them.

My point is about putting rules to the fore.

If teams aren't in a position to progress surely that's a barrier to progression of a pyramid.

[Burnie_man]

Aye but you were talking about dividing the EoS, not the LL.

There will be a 16 team EoS Premier next season and some clubs in it wont be Licenced, that is where we are at the moment. There are no instant solutions.

Your suggestion would place Sauchie and Bo'ness in tier 7 and Coldstream and Burntisland in tier 5.

[ShrimpLok]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

But not at the same level, LL East would be tier 6, EoS Premier feeding into it from tier 7 so there isn't really an issue .    I think it would be more about providing a solution in the West and filling the gap at tier 6 that could eventually be filled by the SJFA.

Given the current impasse at the PWG, there will be WRJFA clubs looking at what they can do for next season and the LL could provide the solution.   It depends on their thinking and how quickly they want to move with this.  Maybe a single division is all they want, but they could be the catalyst for real progress if they went west and east.

 

Maybe the best solution is just to open LL2 applications and promise at least 50% of acceptances will be from Strathclyde / D&G.

Then see how many teams apply. If 8-10 apply from west then go with a LL2. If they get 16-20 applicants then establish a LL2E and LL2W immediately. 

2 year grace period for licensing with only licensed teams able to go up to LL. 

Pyramid solved.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, ShrimpLok said:

Maybe the best solution is just to open LL2 applications and promise at least 50% of acceptances will be from Strathclyde / D&G.

Then see how many teams apply. If 8-10 apply from west then go with a LL2. If they get 16-20 applicants then establish a LL2E and LL2W immediately. 

2 year grace period for licensing with only licensed teams able to go up to LL. 

Pyramid solved.

Can't disagree with that.  It should be fairly easy to implement providing the SFA, EoS and SoS are happy with it.  The LL started with only 12 clubs.

[Burnie_man]

In fact there is a user on here called "tombrown" who is probably the same guy who is connected with Civil Service Strollers, he may be able to shed further light on LL2, if he can/wants to.