Pyramid 2019/2020

[Sergeant Wilson]

On 05/11/2018 at 18:44, Burnie_man said:

 

Personally I hope LL2 splits West and East, in the East it's basically the EoS Premier by another name for which plans are already in place.  In  the West, if the SJFA do not want to co-operate then you open it up to applications, and as long as you have a dozen to start with it's a goer. I think most top West clubs would jump at it.

 

It really has to for the pyramid to make sense. But the attempt to shoehorn a new League 3 is a total betrayal to every club outwith the existing 42, and probably quite a few in it.

[PRICEY]

Only because you are looking to knock it. Spfl 3 is unlikely ll2 is possible but you just want to knock it. Imagine trying something different or have an idea totally ridiculous. I'm surprised you want a east super league not want to go back to Lothians Fife and tayside leagues

From what I’ve read on here,it’s the pyramid supporters that want to go back to Tayside league.

[AlanCamelonfan]

12 minutes ago, PRICEY said:

 

From what I’ve read on here,it’s the pyramid supporters that want to go back to Tayside league.

 

Well I'm sure they don't want to be in North juniors because they shouldnt be in league with border teams

[Jack Burton]

12-12-18 is the way I would go too. Two mostly full time leagues and a bottom league that is big enough to accommodate automatic relegation/promotion places for the winners of the Lowland and Highland league.

[Marten]

15 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

It could also be the making of them as they develop.
 

Adding colt teams to the league structure greatly undermines the whole league structure. Yet there isn't one single benefit. Other countries show there is not a shred of evidence that this benefits youth development.

The plan is completely and utterly stupid.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

I have kept one eye on this from a distance for a while, quite interested in how it all pans out but don't really have much of a vested interest as much as my own club are in freefall  just now , I still cant see them getting all the way down to regionalised level at least no yet!.   Anyway

This is all shaping up to be the kind of farce that could only happen in Scotland isn't it?  the juniors and EOS  operating 2 leagues in the same area at the same level  is mental,  should never have been allowed and just sounds like a typical effort to appease the awkward and stubborn least they pick up their baw and take it hame wi them. Then there's the silly boundary situation which if you take a step back  looks like everyone is just desperate to get in the lowland catchment and avoid the north , But why do we need any fixed boundary at all?  this being Scotland and the clowns that run our game wont have any plans in place for when a north team is relegated and a south team is promoted. you just know it  will be some clusterfuck patch job that makes us look even more tin pot than already.  would it not make more sense just to put the most northerly and most southerly teams of that season into their respective leagues? yes I know that population density isn't the same as England where they do this and yes we could end up with teams from Stirling or fife in the north or angus in the south from season to season but what's the alternative? having odd numbered devisions, lack of promotion or relegation due to imbalances ? I think that'd be worse. 

The sticking point is going to be teams that find themselves  in the middle who would be changing regions fairly often  , as those in the true north and south will always have teams closer to the middle than them.  mainly teams from Dundee and surrounding areas.  Thing is tho , not very many teams are at the extremities of their respective regions and they wont all be at the same level anyway.  most are unsupringsly clustered round population centres .

Aye fair enough a team from Dundee might be boaking at having to treck all the way to golspie when theyd rather be in the lowland where the majority of teams are in Edinburgh fife and west Lothian just an hour or so down the road from them.

On the other hand a team from Dundee might be boaking at having to trek all the way to Coldstream , Kirkcudbright or Berwick when theyd rather be in the highland league where the majority of teams are in Aberdeenshire or moray just an hour or 2 up the road from them.       In other words stop whinging and get on with it.  

Of course this being daft parochial Scotland this will never happen, the fact that its for the good of the game is neither here nor there.  "let someone else worry about that, we're just fine doing what we're doing"  will be the opinion of most clubs who will be affected.  or tell me I'm  wrong?

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

20 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

I have kept one eye on this from a distance for a while, quite interested in how it all pans out but don't really have much of a vested interest as much as my own club are in freefall  just now , I still cant see them getting all the way down to regionalised level at least no yet!.   Anyway

This is all shaping up to be the kind of farce that could only happen in Scotland isn't it?  the juniors and EOS  operating 2 leagues in the same area at the same level  is mental,  should never have been allowed and just sounds like a typical effort to appease the awkward and stubborn least they pick up their baw and take it hame wi them. Then there's the silly boundary situation which if you take a step back  looks like everyone is just desperate to get in the lowland catchment and avoid the north , But why do we need any fixed boundary at all?  this being Scotland and the clowns that run our game wont have any plans in place for when a north team is relegated and a south team is promoted. you just know it  will be some clusterfuck patch job that makes us look even more tin pot than already.  would it not make more sense just to put the most northerly and most southerly teams of that season into their respective leagues? yes I know that population density isn't the same as England where they do this and yes we could end up with teams from Stirling or fife in the north or angus in the south from season to season but what's the alternative? having odd numbered devisions, lack of promotion or relegation due to imbalances ? I think that'd be worse. 

The sticking point is going to be teams that find themselves  in the middle who would be changing regions fairly often  , as those in the true north and south will always have teams closer to the middle than them.  mainly teams from Dundee and surrounding areas.  Thing is tho , not very many teams are at the extremities of their respective regions and they wont all be at the same level anyway.  most are unsupringsly clustered round population centres .

Aye fair enough a team from Dundee might be boaking at having to treck all the way to golspie when theyd rather be in the lowland where the majority of teams are in Edinburgh fife and west Lothian just an hour or so down the road from them.

On the other hand a team from Dundee might be boaking at having to trek all the way to Coldstream , Kirkcudbright or Berwick when theyd rather be in the highland league where the majority of teams are in Aberdeenshire or moray just an hour or 2 up the road from them.       In other words stop whinging and get on with it.  

Of course this being daft parochial Scotland this will never happen, the fact that its for the good of the game is neither here nor there.  "let someone else worry about that, we're just fine doing what we're doing"  will be the opinion of most clubs who will be affected.  or tell me I'm  wrong?

 

The best part about it is the east Juniors that don't move over teams have already refused promotion to what is more or less a Tayside north Fife league. In the name of being called junior. But if they are in pyramid next year their would be nothing junior about it as they will be in sfa disciplinary full fixture lists and junior cup won't be able to tAkeley priority over the lEague and yet none of them can tell me why they should remain junior.

[Enigma]

Fixed boundaries is a good thing. Does England not still have teams from Gloucestershire and the like in the ‘North’? You’d get another situation where somebody decided Dumbarton were a ‘North’ team in the league cup.

[honestman54]

21 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Yes - I was trying to look at a bigger picture.  

For Scottish Football to thrive, younger players need to be playing competitive games on a regular basis.  Bigger clubs sign players who are drifting into oblivion because they aren't developing into real players.  For me this is down to not playing competitive football but instead they are hidden away playing games at half pace where no one makes tackles.

Playing the Colts teams against seasoned pros would be a sharp learning curve - but it may also be the making of a future generation of Scottish talent.   For me this is better than just another league full of old pros at the end of their careers  or Pretend Teams with no support or ground of their own. 

The pyramid should offer much more than just an opportunity for clubs but also about developing good Scottish players.  

 

That only works if the Colt teams contain young Scottish players and not those from other parts

[Marten]

20 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Fixed boundaries is a good thing. Does England not still have teams from Gloucestershire and the like in the ‘North’? You’d get another situation where somebody decided Dumbarton were a ‘North’ team in the league cup.

Agreed, let's also not forget that the population in Scotland isn't exactly nicely divided over the land area. The vast majority of people are on a relatively small strip of land. If there is going to be a flexible border, it's only a matter of time before central belt clubs end up in the Highland League, just like Hearts were in the north section of the League Cup this year, while Edinburgh City were in south.

[Ginaro]

16 minutes ago, Marten said:

just like Hearts were in the north section of the League Cup this year, while Edinburgh City were in south.

That's because the seeded teams are split into north/south and drawn into the groups before the unseeded teams. Hearts were the only team not in the "correct" region this season, but they were the fourth furthest north seeded team so that's just the way it goes.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

43 minutes ago, Marten said:

Agreed, let's also not forget that the population in Scotland isn't exactly nicely divided over the land area. The vast majority of people are on a relatively small strip of land. If there is going to be a flexible border, it's only a matter of time before central belt clubs end up in the Highland League, just like Hearts were in the north section of the League Cup this year, while Edinburgh City were in south.

Maybe your right but how else do you solve the problem of promotion /relegation when the regions don't marry up .. WITHOUT it being a half arsed tin pot patch job ?    Also you have the other problem right now that any and all teams who can contest & appeal the boundary are doing so, All of those who have done so have tried to avoid the north and get in the south . presumably because the south is seen as better/ easier/ more lucrative  etc etc . none have tried to contest the border to play in the north when they should be south. 

The more teams that do this the more that will want to as the north becomes less and less desirable, the sfa haven't exactly shown strong leadership on this so f**k knows what we'd end up with, the boundary pushed all the way up to Aberdeen?

[FairWeatherFan]

31 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Maybe your right but how else do you solve the problem of promotion /relegation when the regions don't marry up .. WITHOUT it being a half arsed tin pot patch job ?    Also you have the other problem right now that any and all teams who can contest & appeal the boundary are doing so, All of those who have done so have tried to avoid the north and get in the south . presumably because the south is seen as better/ easier/ more lucrative  etc etc . none have tried to contest the border to play in the north when they should be south. 

The more teams that do this the more that will want to as the north becomes less and less desirable, the sfa haven't exactly shown strong leadership on this so f**k knows what we'd end up with, the boundary pushed all the way up to Aberdeen?

Everyone that has tried to question the boundary so far has failed to get it moved.

Even now while there's a difference of opinion between EoS & East Juniors in these PWG meetings. The EoS even declined/informed a potential applicant during their reorganization.

The only club to have broke ground on North/South boundaries since the inception of the Lowland League has been Montrose Roselea. Who went from the East Region to the North Region in the Juniors.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Everyone that has tried to question the boundary so far has failed to get it moved.

Even now while there's a difference of opinion between EoS & East Juniors in these PWG meetings. The EoS even declined/informed a potential applicant during their reorganization.

The only club to have broke ground on North/South boundaries since the inception of the Lowland League has been Montrose Roselea. Who went from the East Region to the North Region in the Juniors.

Who did they decline?

[FairWeatherFan]

42 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Who did they decline?

No one was named, but at the time it was all going on there was a quote from, I believe, John Greenhorn referencing the interest from a club North of the Tay.

EDIT: Quicker to find than I thought it would be:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44408030

I also remember seeing this at the time which stuck with me

Edited November 21, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[humphrey]

test

[AsimButtHitsASix]

13 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

No one was named, but at the time it was all going on there was a quote from, I believe, John Greenhorn referencing the interest from a club North of the Tay.

EDIT: Quicker to find than I thought it would be:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44408030

I also remember seeing this at the time which stuck with me

Ironically that tweet was sent from below the HL/LL dividing line

[old speckled hen]

I'm interested in what happens at the end of this season as regards leagues A, B and C. I can't find any information relating to it on the EOSFL website which is otherwise a very good site compared to what it used to be. Can anyone enlighten me? I did start reading this thread but there's 34 pages and to be honest I got stuck on the very first post as I had no clue what PWG meant. I have heard that the top 5 in each of the 3 leagues will form 1 league of 15 next season and the remainder will go into a league below that, is that right? How is the champion decided? Will new teams still be able to apply to join the EOSFL next season?

Thanks in advance

[AlanCamelonfan]

45 minutes ago, old speckled hen said:

I'm interested in what happens at the end of this season as regards leagues A, B and C. I can't find any information relating to it on the EOSFL website which is otherwise a very good site compared to what it used to be. Can anyone enlighten me? I did start reading this thread but there's 34 pages and to be honest I got stuck on the very first post as I had no clue what PWG meant. I have heard that the top 5 in each of the 3 leagues will form 1 league of 15 next season and the remainder will go into a league below that, is that right? How is the champion decided? Will new teams still be able to apply to join the EOSFL next season?

Thanks in advance

The 3 champions playoff for the championship and if licensed the Lowland league. If eg bonnyrigg got a licence won the playoff they would be promoted to lowland league with team 15 currentlyWhitehill Welfare would be relegated however as lowland league require 16 teams as Selkirk folded Whitehill may be re elected to lowland league. The other 14 of the top 5 plus of relegated from lowland league and the bestate 6th or potentially the 2nd best 6th aswell depending on relegation will form as 16 team premier league. With the restock and any new clubs will be below that. Not much had been said on  how that will look 

[Cyril]

45 minutes ago, old speckled hen said:

I'm interested in what happens at the end of this season as regards leagues A, B and C. I can't find any information relating to it on the EOSFL website which is otherwise a very good site compared to what it used to be. Can anyone enlighten me? I did start reading this thread but there's 34 pages and to be honest I got stuck on the very first post as I had no clue what PWG meant. I have heard that the top 5 in each of the 3 leagues will form 1 league of 15 next season and the remainder will go into a league below that, is that right? How is the champion decided? Will new teams still be able to apply to join the EOSFL next season?

Thanks in advance

The three winners of each conference play each other in a round of play off games, the winner of this will then go through to play the South of Scotland champions in a two legged play off to decide promotion to the Lowland League (only if they are licenced)

The top 5 clubs from each conference then form a New East of Scotland Premier League along with the best placed 6th team + whoever is relegated from the Lowland League. That would then leave 23 teams + any new additions so the East of Scotland would need further reconstruction underneath.