Pyramid 2019/2020

[LongTimeLurker]

12 minutes ago, HTG said:

Colt teams in a league structure are anathema in this country...

Where the SPFL level is concerned and I suspect it will never get approved at that level, but Hibs had a colt team in the EoS in the not too distant past.

[GordonS]

11 hours ago, kefc said:

Every club and person will have a differing opinion and different preferences for their club but I wouldn’t say it’s short sighted for our club IF we had the chance to play in that league.

-Entry into SPFL without having to win a very competitive league and 2 play off matches.

-All 3 national cup competition entry.

-Increase in finances.

-Being part of a league setup where the winners are automatically promoted.

Would I personally look forward to facing Colt teams and travelling to the Highlands possibly not but it would be a start to opening up the pyramid  fully and same as when the Lowland League started that it will obviously develop as clubs move league positions.

Im sure it’s very early stages and lots to speak about and agree on by the powers at the SPFL but it’s interesting all the same for our club and probably a lot of others at this time.

It's not a pyramid if it's yet another national league. A pyramid has a wide base. And it's entry to the SPFL in name only. It's not an achievement if they just admit more clubs.

The 10-team leagues below the Championship are really unnecessary, as the standard quickly becomes pretty level. Another 12 team league is stupid, fans don't want to be facing the same opposition 3-4 times a season.

If they want the top eight Tier 5 sides in the League and Challenge Cups, they can just admit them.

So getting from Tier 5 to Tier 4 becomes a little easier - good. But what about Tier 6 to Tier 5? It gets worse.

More finance? From where? Are you hoping the existing SPFL clubs subsidise this league, out of their own pockets?

Imagine a league with 11 opponents, in which more than a third of your games are against Highland teams, and more than a third are against the U20 teams of Hibs, Dundee, Hearts and Aberdeen. In whose fevered imagination is that an appealing prospect?

There's nothing about this that is an improvement. We have two leagues at Tier 5, we're on our way to three or four leagues at Tier 6 and things are evolving reasonably enough. Let's just work with that.

[falkirktv]

21 minutes ago, GordonS said:

It's not a pyramid if it's yet another national league. A pyramid has a wide base. And it's entry to the SPFL in name only. It's not an achievement if they just admit more clubs.

The 10-team leagues below the Championship are really unnecessary, as the standard quickly becomes pretty level. Another 12 team league is stupid, fans don't want to be facing the same opposition 3-4 times a season.

If they want the top eight Tier 5 sides in the League and Challenge Cups, they can just admit them.

So getting from Tier 5 to Tier 4 becomes a little easier - good. But what about Tier 6 to Tier 5? It gets worse.

More finance? From where? Are you hoping the existing SPFL clubs subsidise this league, out of their own pockets?

Imagine a league with 11 opponents, in which more than a third of your games are against Highland teams, and more than a third are against the U20 teams of Hibs, Dundee, Hearts and Aberdeen. In whose fevered imagination is that an appealing prospect?

There's nothing about this that is an improvement. We have two leagues at Tier 5, we're on our way to three or four leagues at Tier 6 and things are evolving reasonably enough. Let's just work with that.

The only way things get better is spfl 3 has two relegation places, giving ll an easier way up. 

[HTG]

19 minutes ago, falkirktv said:

The only way things get better is spfl 3 has two relegation places, giving ll an easier way up. 

Which should already be happening at SPFL2 for the good of the wider game. There is zero reason not to. 

SPFL1 to SPFL 2 sees a club relegated and a club promoted. In addition second from bottom plus 2nd, 3rd and 4th play off. This seems to be entirely acceptable to all of the clubs. For those seeking to progress, it offers an opportunity to 40% of the teams in the league below within this arrangement. I'm sure the reason is to help avoid stagnation. 

Switch to the bottom of SPFL2 though and they couldn't care less about stagnation. There are 34 clubs striving to get to that league of 10. None of them can get there automatically. They need to win their league AND 2 play off matches. 

Now it looks like there are moves afoot to make the structure even more impenetrable. 

So in summary, we don't want stagnation among the 42. We say we want a pyramid. But actually we want a pyramid where nobody moves much - if at all - beneath the 42. And if that looks like happening, we'll change the pyramid.  Shambolic but unsurprising. 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

17 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Kelty tier 5 at the moment Lowland league 30 games SC entry at Round one, competitions that they could or should make an impact in (South challenge cup/EOS qualifying cup/Lowland league cup)

Kelty in SPFl proposed division 3 22 league games , SC at round 1? plus two cups they will get papped out by end of August. LC and SPFL challenge cup.

Easy choice imho.

Nail on head from htg and gordons posts .

Kelty in SPFL3 with £20-30k or more in prize money goes along way.

[FairWeatherFan]

10 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Does it? 1) Its not going to make them more competitive than say any current SPF division 2 team if they were promoted to tier 4. Also doesn't take into account it wont be 20-30k it will be less than that due to less games at home. Attendances this season were averaging 300+ before barry Ferguson became manager with that average increasing since then. Factor in 38 of those are paying £30 per head hospitality then that's well over £2000 per game? Add various other income from games programmes, bar sales, canteen etc? Lose four league games and any decent cup runs then the money gained wont be anything like 20-30k.

Who says they're losing home games? It's probably 33 league games or more.

They'd also likely get extra value out of sponsorship/match day revenue by being part of the SPFL instead of the Lowland League.

[Jack Burton]

The proposal for league 3 is an utter joke. Give it another 5 years or so and the Lowland league should be pretty decent with a mixture of ex-SPFL, junior and original Lowland teams. I would rather get relegated to that rather than league 3 were 8 out of 11 away games will be against either Highland league or Colt teams. There is no easy way to schedule a 12 team league without a split. 22 games is too short, 33 is uneven and 44 is far too many. It would essentially relegate the majority of the teams in the pyramid down a level.

[Burnie_man]

A fifth national division of part time teams is utterly insane and just a vehicle to get Rangers and Celtic B teams into the league system without dropping them further down the ladder. It's crazy but no surprise the SPFL hatch something like this.

As for the PWG, not heard much feedback, so my initial impression is that not much progress was made of any ground breaking significance. This could rumble on and on with League 3 and LL2 thrown into the mix.

[LongTimeLurker]

The Highland League angle shows they haven't really thought it through as the travel that introduces will probably turn even some Lowland teams off the concept and it is not clear any Highland League club other than Cove really wants to play on a national basis. Think this League 3 thing has much less chance of happening than LL2 and is a proposal from the Old Firm clubs rather than the SPFL.

[cmontheloknow]

28 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The Highland League angle shows they haven't really thought it through as the travel that introduces will probably turn even some Lowland teams off the concept and it is not clear any Highland League club other than Cove really wants to play on a national basis. Think this League 3 thing has much less chance of happening than LL2 and is a proposal from the Old Firm clubs rather than the SPFL.

It first popped up in the Evening Express so I'd wonder whether a NE club leaked it to kill it this early on?

Edited November 19, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[BS7]

Why would colt teams get to bypass the pyramid? They should start at the bottom, no?

[Glenconner]

20 hours ago, gogsy said:

FFS that's a fcking shambles

Colts clubs, hee hee

[wullie robb]

15 minutes ago, BS7 said:

Why would colt teams get to bypass the pyramid? They should start at the bottom, no?

The SFA really need to waken up before they kill off Football for good. 

Colt Teams Jeezo... 

[Glenconner]

SFL3, LL2, Highland League, 3 leagues in the East of Scotland, South of Scotland league, EoS Juniors, West Region Juniors.........

Not to worry, there’s grants available.

[drs]

9 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

SFL3, LL2, Highland League, 3 leagues in the East of Scotland, South of Scotland league, EoS Juniors, West Region Juniors.........

Not to worry, there’s grants available.

...and yet your club and its association are moving across to become seniors next season and will be part of this exact same pyramid.

hee, hee

[Glenconner]

3 minutes ago, drs said:

...and yet your club and its association are moving across to become seniors next season and will be part of this exact same pyramid.

hee, hee

drs, true but under no illusions there’s any money being fired out to the average club starting from the bottom league in the West Juniors. It would take about 7 or 8 seasons including play offs to go from bottom league in the West Juniors to SFL3. And Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers would probably still be above you.

[Glenconner]

8 minutes ago, gogsy said:

If theres a Lowland league 2 and SPFL league 3 theres a good chance his team could be tier 9

Just leave those Kilwinning folks alone you bully.

[Glenconner]

1 minute ago, gogsy said:

 Jeezo is that the best you can do ? 0/10 for that.

That was the one you kept quiet about.

[Enigma]

A nation wide fifth tier is a bad idea. As others have mentioned, aside from the outrageous and desperate efforts to inflict the SPFL with more Old Firm teams, the travel surely makes this a non starter. I do think what it does do is highlight that the SPFL is thinking about what the future relationship between the SPLF and the HL/LL is in terms of relegation and promotion. A 12 team league, as proposed, would perhaps suggest 1 relegation spot and a play off spot? As per the Premiership. Either was it’s a mess and a poor idea, one not for the good of the game, but for the good of two certain clubs.

1.5 relegation spots from the SPFL simply isn’t enough, 2.5 seems right to me, and you can have a 10 team league with that many relegation spots. I’ve long thought a 12-12-18 is the best solutions. Two leagues of what will mostly be full time clubs and a large national league of part time clubs. If the SPFL genuinely wants more real clubs in the tent, how about 14-14-18?

[Donathan]

Let’s just have 2 x 16 national leagues and then a N/W/E 3-pronged pyramid. IMO, level 3 should be a single body but with three conferences, like the English conference North and South or whatever they call it now.

Reason I say that is because I’m not a big fan of the current set up of HL/LL where you could theoretically have one league growing every year whilst the other falls. I’d have a 36 (3x12) third tier where there is a possibility of lateral movement between the leagues depending on who comes up/down.

The winner of each conference goes up automatically (14th-16th in the championship relegated) and then the three runners up go into a playoff with 13th.