Marten Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Literally posting up minutes that show that @Burnie_man is correct and then still saying he is wrong. There is simply no reasonable argument for 2 routes to the LL in the East. There is no reason why the East Juniors & EoS can't merge (or at least those East juniors in the LL area if the boundary doesn't change). It's important to finally get rid of the artificial divide in non-league football. There is no difference between juniors & senior non-league. It's all non-league and other than a label and different governing body effectively the same. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Journeyman Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 No Tayside league....West and East regions into Tier 6 as of season 2019-20...you will have to ask the EoS guy who produced the minutes why he introduced Tayside ? There is no Tayside association in discussion with the PWG only the SJFA.Hand on heart do you honestly believe the ERSJFA current Super league clubs will be on a par next season with the top 5 of Conferences A/B/C. ?If you do then tell me what league would an East Lowland League side be relegated too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, juniorsforme said: ERJFA will offer the same route from 2019-20 season....please read the communication from Ian Maxwell. If you don't believe the point being made by @Burnie_man that there's still conflict over how the leagues will be organised. What do you believe will discussed at the 14th November meeting? And why have the Lowland League formed their own working group for Lowland League 2? Edited October 30, 2018 by FairWeatherFan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 How about this for a compromise? Four leagues still feed into LL: EoS, SoS, WRSJFA and ERSJFA. But for an ERSJFA club to be eligible for the play-offs, they have to be located north of a boundary line - maybe the current HL/LL line, or north of somewhere like Glenrothes so that the like of Tayport would be eligible. So any club below the line wanting to go up would have to move to the EoS. In effect this would turn the ERSJFA into a Tayside league, with the possible inclusion of hardcore grade loyalists from the southern part of the region who don't want any involvement in the seniors. What's tougher for me to accept is the corollary of that - EoS teams from north of that line not being eligible for the play offs. I'd be very reluctant to boot Jeanfield out, back into a weakened ERSJFA. Perhaps a buffer area would help. A merger would still be better, but in the absence of that and to satisfy what the genius Ian Maxwell said, this gives everyone most of what they want. As an aside, nobody should be considering four leagues competing for just one promotion slot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
never been to scotland Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, GordonS said: How about this for a compromise? Four leagues still feed into LL: EoS, SoS, WRSJFA and ERSJFA. But for an ERSJFA club to be eligible for the play-offs, they have to be located north of a boundary line - maybe the current HL/LL line, or north of somewhere like Glenrothes so that the like of Tayport would be eligible. So any club below the line wanting to go up would have to move to the EoS. In effect this would turn the ERSJFA into a Tayside league, with the possible inclusion of hardcore grade loyalists from the southern part of the region who don't want any involvement in the seniors. What's tougher for me to accept is the corollary of that - EoS teams from north of that line not being eligible for the play offs. I'd be very reluctant to boot Jeanfield out, back into a weakened ERSJFA. Perhaps a buffer area would help. A merger would still be better, but in the absence of that and to satisfy what the genius Ian Maxwell said, this gives everyone most of what they want. As an aside, nobody should be considering four leagues competing for just one promotion slot. This. What a joke. If they do go with this mad idea they should automatically promote the winners of the EOS and the WR and have the SOS and ER play-off for a third spot. You could increase the Lowland to 18 teams so that the possibility of 4 going down (if L champs stay down and a Lowland area club comes down) wasn't so terrible. Personally I think a LW and LE is the way to go. With LW, LE, H, and L2 10th playing off for a league place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debian Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, juniorsforme said: Burnie you read it anyway you want. I know the ERJFA are in Tier 6 and there is no Tayside league I can also confirm that Burnieman is correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 13 hours ago, GordonS said: As an aside, nobody should be considering four leagues competing for just one promotion slot. You'll probably see this at first (unless LL2 is formed in time) before it gets expanded after a year or two. Turkeys/Christmas/etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Frankly everyone should ensure the Lowland Leagues attempt at self preservation is blocked. We start to get a pyramid of some shape or form in place and all they care about is their own members. If they want lowland league 2, they already will potentially have 4 of them to drop into next season without creating another. I wonder if renaming the EOS Premier the LL2East, the SOS the LL2South, ( potentially LL2West & LL2ERSJFA) covers their needs ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 As long as the Lowland League 2 is filled on footballing merit (ie top X from East, top Y from West, top Z from South as agreed by all parties), and still has relegation to the leagues below I don't see how it would be an attempt at self preservation. The existing Lowland League members would still be able to be relegated to Tier 6 if they finished in a relegation spot, and the teams in the leagues below would still be able to get promoted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Frankly everyone should ensure the Lowland Leagues attempt at self preservation is blocked. We start to get a pyramid of some shape or form in place and all they care about is their own members. If they want lowland league 2, they already will potentially have 4 of them to drop into next season without creating another. I wonder if renaming the EOS Premier the LL2East, the SOS the LL2South, ( potentially LL2West & LL2ERSJFA) covers their needs ?I'd argue an ERJFA in the pyramid when a feeder for the region already exists is self preservation on part of the juniors. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said: 26 minutes ago, superbigal said: Frankly everyone should ensure the Lowland Leagues attempt at self preservation is blocked. We start to get a pyramid of some shape or form in place and all they care about is their own members. If they want lowland league 2, they already will potentially have 4 of them to drop into next season without creating another. I wonder if renaming the EOS Premier the LL2East, the SOS the LL2South, ( potentially LL2West & LL2ERSJFA) covers their needs ? I'd argue an ERJFA in the pyramid when a feeder for the region already exists is self preservation on part of the juniors. Bang on the money. How can you complain at LL2 when the SJFA are furiously engaged in self-preservation even if it makes zero sense! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 All sides in this come in the discussion with the aim of self-preservation, the LL, EOS, SOS, SJFA & HL, that seems quite obvious. The point is that different sides are now putting their cards on the table and then they'll have to reach a compromise. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 51 minutes ago, superbigal said: Frankly everyone should ensure the Lowland Leagues attempt at self preservation is blocked. We start to get a pyramid of some shape or form in place and all they care about is their own members. If they want lowland league 2, they already will potentially have 4 of them to drop into next season without creating another. I wonder if renaming the EOS Premier the LL2East, the SOS the LL2South, ( potentially LL2West & LL2ERSJFA) covers their needs ? The only ones trying for self preservation is the Juniors. Lowland League 2 probably is a panic in that they don't want to be run like the Juniors as its a mess. Not knowing when fixtures are. WE have the seasons fixtures. We are getting a fucked up version of a pyramid because of the joonyor mentality. Just get it organised properly. Tayside have their own League and go into Highland pyramid. The rest joined EOSFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 LL2 tier 6 : 16/32 clubs going for 2-3 promotion spots. 1 organisation. Shared cups for everyone involved and licencing as a requirement going forward. EoS/SoS/SJFA tier 6 : 60 clubs going for 1 promotion spot. 3 or more organisations depending on your point of view. Myriad of cups but kept in their own organizations. Haven't seen the SJFA promote licencing even when it was available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GordonS Posted October 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2018 On self-preservation, the original EoS 13 clubs set the example. They invited all comers to join them at the same level, pushing back their deadlines to accommodate everyone and creating conferences, outnumbering themselves two-to-one, knowing it would make it vastly harder for them to reach the LL, ensuring a tough season for most of them and a brutal season for some, all in the name of unifying the grades. If they hadn't, the PWG would still be at square one today. They're the only group of clubs that have made a sacrifice in the interests of the game. For that, I really think they deserve to be recognised as the only non-league feeder to the LL (or LL2) in the south-east of Scotland. 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, GordonS said: On self-preservation, the original EoS 13 clubs set the example. They invited all comers to join them at the same level, pushing back their deadlines to accommodate everyone and creating conferences, outnumbering themselves two-to-one, knowing it would make it vastly harder for them to reach the LL, ensuring a tough season for most of them and a brutal season for some, all in the name of unifying the grades. If they hadn't, the PWG would still be at square one today. They're the only group of clubs that have made a sacrifice in the interests of the game. For that, I really think they deserve to be recognised as the only non-league feeder to the LL (or LL2) in the south-east of Scotland. great point gordon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 On self-preservation, the original EoS 13 clubs set the example. They invited all comers to join them at the same level, pushing back their deadlines to accommodate everyone and creating conferences, outnumbering themselves two-to-one, knowing it would make it vastly harder for them to reach the LL, ensuring a tough season for most of them and a brutal season for some, all in the name of unifying the grades. If they hadn't, the PWG would still be at square one today. They're the only group of clubs that have made a sacrifice in the interests of the game. For that, I really think they deserve to be recognised as the only non-league feeder to the LL (or LL2) in the south-east of Scotland.Spot on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, craigkillie said: As long as the Lowland League 2 is filled on footballing merit (ie top X from East, top Y from West, top Z from South as agreed by all parties), and still has relegation to the leagues below I don't see how it would be an attempt at self preservation. The existing Lowland League members would still be able to be relegated to Tier 6 if they finished in a relegation spot, and the teams in the leagues below would still be able to get promoted. If a LL2 is generated, I'd be pretty sure you would have to be licensed to take part. Although I agree it'd be nice for it be to on footballing merit, there are clubs who gave up on winning matches to get their licence sorted, I suppose it depends on what you regard as the merit.... On field, off field or like some have achieved, the nirvana of both. Edited October 31, 2018 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, G4Mac said: If a LL2 is generated, I'd be pretty sure you would have to be licensed to take part. Although I agree it'd be nice for it be to on footballing merit, there are clubs who gave up on winning matches to get their licence sorted, I suppose it depends on what you regard as the merit.... On field, off field or like some have achieved, the nirvana of both. You're making an assumption there. When the Lowland League was formed, unlicensed clubs were allowed to join and had a grace period to obtain their license. At the moment, licensing is not required at Tier 6, and therefore it seems possible that they would allow teams a similar grace period for LL2, if they even introduce licensing requirements at all. At the moment there are (I think) only 12 licensed clubs in the Lowland region who are playing at Tier 6 or below, and I suspect that some of them (Glasgow Uni plus a few of the SoS clubs) might not be particularly interested in taking part in a new region-wide league anyway. There are obviously several more East of Scotland League teams who are in the processing of applying for one too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, craigkillie said: You're making an assumption there. When the Lowland League was formed, unlicensed clubs were allowed to join and had a grace period to obtain their license. At the moment, licensing is not required at Tier 6, and therefore it seems possible that they would allow teams a similar grace period for LL2, if they even introduce licensing requirements at all. At the moment there are (I think) only 12 licensed clubs in the Lowland region who are playing at Tier 6 or below, and I suspect that some of them (Glasgow Uni plus a few of the SoS clubs) might not be particularly interested in taking part in a new region-wide league anyway. There are obviously several more East of Scotland League teams who are in the processing of applying for one too. I'd think lowland league 2 would be from 2020 not next season anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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