Time for Eck to go already!

[forameus]

Yeah, we've got two games left in the group, one of which we don't really need to win to qualify, the prospect of two more games against "similar" sides to come if do qualify, and the usual qualifying yet to start.

Yes, this is definitely the lowest we've ever sunk.

[RandomGuy.]

23 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

Or hopefully they'll make McLeish pick a third choice goalkeeper from fermer land and the money will come rolling back in. 

You mock, but places like Perth and Inverness supply a huge amount of Scotland regulars, ostracise them and you'll see a decent drop off in numbers 

[Savage Henry]

49 minutes ago, forameus said:

Yeah, we've got two games left in the group, one of which we don't really need to win to qualify, the prospect of two more games against "similar" sides to come if do qualify, and the usual qualifying yet to start.

Yes, this is definitely the lowest we've ever sunk.

I was going to post this.  That said, lose both these games (and I can see that happening) and it definitely would be the nadir. 

 

[forameus]

4 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

I was going to post this.  That said, lose both these games (and I can see that happening) and it definitely would be the nadir. 

 

I'm not even convinced it is.  It's harder to say obviously, now that there's more tournaments, much harder to "compare" just how shite we're being.  I'd only go as far as saying it's us starting to go down a particularly slippery slope, but not too steep.  If we don't finish bottom, we stay around the 3rd/4th seed mark for qualifiers, which isn't impossible to qualify from.  That would keep us rather static with plenty of room to fall further (because I still doubt we'd qualify).  It's if we end up getting relegated from this third tier that we'll really be hitting the bottom.  That means 5th (or worse, 6th) seeds in future qualifying, and although the nations league would then be "easier", it would presumably be another four years before that mattered.

So, as always with the absolute moon-howlers screaming about the sky falling, it can always get worse.

[eez-eh]

It maybe isn’t the lowest we’ve ever sunk but there’s a completely depressing atmosphere with players dropping out of competitive games like flies, a manager that doesn’t have a clue and the distinct possibility we won’t top a 3 team group featuring Albania and Israel in what might be our best chance to qualify in two decades.

[SpoonTon]

The upcoming games are massively important. Failing to win a group with Albania and Israel, a number of players not wanting to be called up, crowd figures going over a cliff edge, etc. Finish second or third in this group and there's a big argument that this is the lowest point. But that's not come to pass yet, and it might not at all. 

[SaintDougie]

Topping the group wouldn't really mean anything though, we would still need to play a two leg semi final and then a final before actually qualifying for 2020, something that a McLeish squad would never be able to achieve!

[Savage Henry]

21 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

It maybe isn’t the lowest we’ve ever sunk but there’s a completely depressing atmosphere with players dropping out of competitive games like flies, a manager that doesn’t have a clue and the distinct possibility we won’t top a 3 team group featuring Albania and Israel in what might be our best chance to qualify in two decades.

I think this is fair.  I think the atmosphere is now to the point that Scotland could win 6-0 both the next two games, and McLeish would still have the fans against him.  Couple that with the absolute idiocy from McFadden and Peter Grant (Peter Grant can barely tie his own shoe laces) and the fact that some of Scotland's best players have been ostracised, and it all becomes incredibly depressing.  What makes it worse is that McLeish was pimping himself for the job, and the minute Walter Smith turned Scotland down, he was the only choice.

Actually, that's what makes it feel so bad.  Scotland had a chance to completely restructure and bring fresh air to the national team.  Instead, their short list of candidates was Alex McLeish and Walter Smith.  And Malky Mackay is the performance director.  It's awful.

[jagfox]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

Yeah, we've got two games left in the group, one of which we don't really need to win to qualify, the prospect of two more games against "similar" sides to come if do qualify, and the usual qualifying yet to start.

Yes, this is definitely the lowest we've ever sunk.

When has it been worse? 

[forameus]

6 minutes ago, SaintDougie said:

Topping the group wouldn't really mean anything though, we would still need to play a two leg semi final and then a final before actually qualifying for 2020, something that a McLeish squad would never be able to achieve!

Very little of that is actually true.

Winning our group means we're at home for a one-legged semi final, which is obviously massive given how shite we are away.  It also means promotion, and could very well mean 3rd seeding for next year's qualifiers.  

Are you sure you're not James McFadden?

[Savage Henry]

3 minutes ago, jagfox99 said:

When has it been worse? 

Faroe Islands away.  The tail end of Craig Brown's period when they were playing a back three with two centre backs at wing back and Colin Calderwood in midfield.  4-6-0...  Getting hammered in Cardiff and Norway, losing 5-0 to the USA reserves.  There have been some bleak moments.  

[forameus]

5 minutes ago, jagfox99 said:

When has it been worse? 

Weren't certain days of Berti worse?  We dropped to a record low ranking under him before he left, when doing so actually meant something.  There was only one avenue back then, and a low seeding was essentially a death sentence.  With the way qualifying is set up now, I don't think we've reached those depths.  Yet.

For what it's worth, I can understand why it seems like it's worse.  We're now in an age where every little decision and action is going to be analysed to the nth degree, and the default setting for most people involved in these media sources and online is utter seethe.  Had the sort of stuff we've suffered through happened nowadays, it would probably be much worse.  All that's happened now is that many little things are building up to combine to make  it seem much worse.  

Basically, things are shit, but they can get much shitter.

[Gordopolis]

14 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

I think this is fair.  I think the atmosphere is now to the point that Scotland could win 6-0 both the next two games, and McLeish would still have the fans against him.  Couple that with the absolute idiocy from McFadden and Peter Grant (Peter Grant can barely tie his own shoe laces) and the fact that some of Scotland's best players have been ostracised, and it all becomes incredibly depressing.  What makes it worse is that McLeish was pimping himself for the job, and the minute Walter Smith turned Scotland down, he was the only choice.

Actually, that's what makes it feel so bad.  Scotland had a chance to completely restructure and bring fresh air to the national team.  Instead, their short list of candidates was Alex McLeish and Walter Smith.  And Malky Mackay is the performance director.  It's awful.

Not sure about this. If you mean McArthur, Snodgrass and perhaps Ritchie then it could be said that they excluded themselves as opposed to being banished.

Griffiths maybe, though he was in the squad despite being out of form and - again - chose to remove himself. 

[Big Ally]

With a full squad I don't think the players we have got are too bad , it's just that Eck and his management team seem to have switche them off with some bizarre formations and statements to the press. Even your keen guys like Tierney and Robertson look bemused on the park.

[lanky_ffc]

56 minutes ago, forameus said:

Winning our group means we're at home for a one-legged semi final

Thought it just meant we made the play-offs and then the four teams were ranked based on their performances in the groups with the best two getting the home advantage?

[jagfox]

45 minutes ago, forameus said:

Weren't certain days of Berti worse?  We dropped to a record low ranking under him before he left, when doing so actually meant something.  There was only one avenue back then, and a low seeding was essentially a death sentence.  With the way qualifying is set up now, I don't think we've reached those depths.  Yet.

For what it's worth, I can understand why it seems like it's worse.  We're now in an age where every little decision and action is going to be analysed to the nth degree, and the default setting for most people involved in these media sources and online is utter seethe.  Had the sort of stuff we've suffered through happened nowadays, it would probably be much worse.  All that's happened now is that many little things are building up to combine to make  it seem much worse.  

Basically, things are shit, but they can get much shitter.

Things were bad at times under Berti. The 2-2 draw versus the Faroes and the 6-0 versus The Netherlands spring to mind. 

However the latter was in an actual playoff match where we'd won the first leg.

I remember attending the  follow up game versus the Faroes at Hampden. Knudsen in goals was amusing and there was over 40,000 attendees. So overall there was a more optimistic feeling about things. To be fair I did gub an ecto on the build up to kickoff...

Right now feels like a nadir personally. We will be lucky to have 40,000 fans at both Nations League games. There is obviously a chance of progression to the semi-final stage. 

Player wise both periods could be seen as periods of transition. 

Since then things have slipped down the pan somewhat. 

Maybe we need another rejig on the managerial front. I just feel McLeish is not the man to do that. Even at his best there's an argument that his successes have been made when making the best of teams/ squads he has inherited but that usually peters out after he has to make his own recruitment choices. 

[forameus]

23 minutes ago, lanky_ffc said:

Thought it just meant we made the play-offs and then the four teams were ranked based on their performances in the groups with the best two getting the home advantage?

I probably should've made sure that was right before picking up on someone else, shouldn't I?

But yeah, you're right.  Best record gets home advantage.  We could top the group and still end up away from home, very easily.

22 minutes ago, jagfox99 said:

Maybe we need another rejig on the managerial front. I just feel McLeish is not the man to do that. Even at his best there's an argument that his successes have been made when making the best of teams/ squads he has inherited but that usually peters out after he has to make his own recruitment choices. 

If we don't top the group, or, perhaps even get relegated, then questions definitely need to be asked about whether McLeish is the right man.  Probably depends too on what happens in the games.  If we do a usual glorious failure thing, it'll probably look a lot better than if  we get pumped in both games.  

The big question for me is whether our available player pool - with regards to those players not getting involved - is down to McLeish or not.  That's probably not something we're going to get answered, but I think that should be a big part of the decision process.  If we're going to just get another guy in that the players are going to take the piss out of, then what's really the point?  If we can get someone who can inspire the shiftless b*****ds to actually want to represent us, then it's definitely worth a change.

FOr what it's worth, I think he's here until we confirm our failure to qualify for Euro 2020.

[HibeeJibee]

3 hours ago, forameus said:

Very little of that is actually true.

Winning our group means we're at home for a one-legged semi final, which is obviously massive given how shite we are away.  It also means promotion, and could very well mean 3rd seeding for next year's qualifiers.  

Are you sure you're not James McFadden?

Not necessarily?

[King Kebab]

Not necessarily?

Think winning both games would give us a good chance of that happening but as you say it might not necessarily happen, but it doesn't mean that that shouldn't be the aim!!!

[forameus]

3 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Not necessarily?

Yeah, I misspoke on that, been called out on it.  Consider myself well and truly telt.

Winning our group gives us an opportunity of a home draw, but won't guarantee it.  To be honest, I only think there's a decent chance of it if we win both games, which I'm finding unlikely at this stage.