HibeeJibee Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) Crowds are being collated for the senior pyramid this season - except in Highland League - and with most of the system playing internationals or cup ties this weekend it seemed an obvious point to look at where they stood at this early stage of the season. These are league only averages (except in South of Scotland League where they're an average of league games and cup-ties). It makes interesting reading:57,640 Celtic 49,601 Rangers 17,966 Hearts 17,639 Hibs 15,774 Aberdeen 6,740 Kilmarnock 6,457 Motherwell 5,988 Dundee 5,797 St Mirren 5,198 Dundee Utd 4,942 St Johnstone 4,849 Dunfermline 4,620 Livingston 4,499 Falkirk 4,344 Ross County 3,086 Partick 2,679 Ayr 2,543 Hamilton 2,275 Inverness 2,093 Morton 1,899 Queen of the South 1,712 Raith 1,198 Alloa 894 Montrose 850 Airdrie 821 Arbroath 679 Queen's Park 622 Dumbarton 616 Stirling Albion 602 Peterhead 597 Elgin 590 Clyde 584 East Fife 560 Forfar 551 Stenhousemuir 486 Berwick 446 Brechin 437 Annan 398 Bonnyrigg 356 Stranraer 336 Kelty 334 Cowdenbeath 297 Edinburgh City 274 Musselburgh 270 Linlithgow 267 Bo'ness 259 Albion Rovers 257 Tranent 229 Camelon 222 Spartans 213 East Kilbride 190 East Stirlingshire 151 Penicuik 143 Dundonald 141 Broxburn 141 Cumbernauld 136 Gala 134 Newtongrange 132 Dalbeattie 132 Whitehill 131 Crossgates 120 Arniston 119 Dunbar 117 Inverkeithing 109 Dunipace 104 Vale of Leithen 103 Burntisland 103 Coldstream 103 Sauchie 101 Oakley 100 Threave 96 Hill of Beath 91 Lochmaben 91 Newton Stewart 89 BSCG 88 Ormiston 87 Gretna 87 St Andrews 86 Mid Annandale 85 Peebles 83 University of Stirling 80 Nithsdale 79 Haddington 77 Preston 73 Edinburgh University 73 Tweedmouth 71 Easthouses 69 Jeanfield 67 Civil Service 67 Dalkeith 65 St Cuthbert 64 Eyemouth 64 Tynecastle 60 Blackburn 54 Wigtown 53 LTHV 52 Abbey Vale 52 Upper Annandale 51 Edinburgh Utd 49 Dumfries YMCA 48 Craigroyston 48 Heston 47 Creetown 46 Selkirk 42 Lochar 40 Edusport Academy 38 Hawick 35 Heriot-Watt University 33 Leith 28 Bonnyton Note: average for Dunipace is based on only 2 games as they were having 3G laid and it only opened at the end of September. Selkirk folded, and their average is based on 2 games they played beforehand. I'll update it a few times as the season progresses. Edited October 11, 2018 by HibeeJibee 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart87 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Camelon’s average has fair went up since they joined the pyramid this season. Last season their average was 90 odd, now they’re up at 229. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) They report doubling ST sales with the move... However their average is currently inflated by having drawn 415 v Linlithgow in a derby game on the September international break: their other home crowds have been between 100 and 172, and the league games without Linlithgow average 135. As the season goes on it is more likely to settle down somewhere in the mid-100s, I'd suspect. e.g. everything else averaging 135 = overall average 160. Equally of course, some clubs will settle upward. Edited October 11, 2018 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @HibeeJibee why have you placed Dundee United above St. Mirren given their relative averages? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said: @HibeeJibee why have you placed Dundee United above St. Mirren given their relative averages? Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." In this case, a simple error I would assume as opposed to some sort of deep-seated, ingrained hatred of your club! Edited October 11, 2018 by cmontheloknow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicMike Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Very interesting. Is there a breakdown of average home attendances only? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, EpicMike said: Very interesting. Is there a breakdown of average home attendances only? That might be possible higher up, but most clubs don't have segregation. The figures for the East and South of Scotland leagues are mostly headcounts taken by fans, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 15 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: 1,712 Raith 1,198 Alloa Nice work HJ. One thing that jumped out at me is the gap between the full time and part time clubs - the best supported part-time club have two-thirds of the average attendance of the worst-supported full-time club, even though they are in a higher division with much bigger travelling supports. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicMike Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, GordonS said: That might be possible higher up, but most clubs don't have segregation. The figures for the East and South of Scotland leagues are mostly headcounts taken by fans, too. My query mostly concerns the top tier, attendances can be skewed by clubs playing the OF or Edinburgh clubs at home more often than others. As a result the overall attendances show very high numbers despite the home crowds being considerably less than this. I think this is why Livingston are so high despite their small following, they've played both Hibs and Rangers at home with the latter game being 70% full of away supporters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 You only get figures for away fans at some of the big clubs AFAIA, and they aren't officially collated anywhere. Your point is correct, though as I say they'll settle out as the season progresses... also the phenomenon occurs at all levels. Inverkeithing are a new club in the EOS League and they've played 4 home league games so far with crowds of 65, 85, 90 and 225 (which was against Linlithgow in their opening game): away fans were in the majority and there were a good smattering of neutrals. It seems unlikely that any of their remaining games will approach that and so - as with Livingston - their average will slowly fall as they play more "run-of-the-mill" games to lower crowds. By the same token some clubs have not played a home derby or 'big' opponent yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, GordonS said: Nice work HJ. One thing that jumped out at me is the gap between the full time and part time clubs - the best supported part-time club have two-thirds of the average attendance of the worst-supported full-time club, even though they are in a higher division with much bigger travelling supports. It's very apparent. Indeed between QotS on ~1,900 and Queen's Park on <700 there are only 5 clubs, being Raith on 1,700; Alloa on 1,200; and 3 SPFL1 clubs in the 800s. Very rapid fall away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 While we're talking about the non-league there have been 18 crowds of 300> so far:1,078 Spartans v Kilmarnock (Scottish League Cup) 528 Bonnyrigg v Dalkeith 515 Linlithgow v Fort William (Scottish Cup) 470 Kelty v Dalbeattie 426 Bonnyrigg v Tynecastle 415 Camelon v Linlithgow 414 Musselburgh v Dunbar 400 Tranent v Bonnyrigg 384 Kelty v East Stirlingshire 350 Bo'ness v Jeanfield (EOS Qualifying League) 341 Kelty v Dalbeattie (Scottish Cup) 340 Linlithgow v Penicuik (EOS Qualifying League) 330 Bo'ness v Leith (EOS Qualifying League) 320 Bo'ness v LTHV 320 Linlithgow v Preston 319 Musselburgh v Dunipace (EOS Qualifying League) 300 East Kilbride v Selkirk 300 Linlithgow v Dunbar (EOS Qualifying Cup) Equally - excluding SOSL clubs - there have been 13 crowds of <30: 30 BSCG v Edusport 30 Edusport v Vale of Leithen 30 Eyemouth v Tynecastle 30 Heriot-Watt University v Inverkeithing 30 LTHV v Ormiston (EOS Qualifying League) 30 Selkirk v Gretna 30 Tynecastle v Eyemouth 28 Tweedmouth v Ormiston (EOS Qualifying League) 26 Leith v Tweedmouth 25 Heriot-Watt University v Jeanfield (Alex Jack Cup) 15 Edusport v Edinburgh Uni 15 Hawick v Burntisland (South Challenge Cup) 15 LTHV v Easthouses (EOS Qualifying League) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Can we have two separate lists for those who declare the actual attendance and those who use the daft 'tickets sold' metric? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Nosejob Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Can we also have a separate list that penalises clubs 10% of their most recent attendance every time one of their posters on P&B references this thread in a crowdwanking discussion or requests a change to the calculations to meet their own particular agenda? i know full well that this will generate massive amounts of extra work for you, HJ, but I’m too shit lazy to do it myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) Bump. Wee update as it stands as of last weekend. Dundee have jumped 2 places, St Johnstone dropped 2 places and Hamilton jumped 4 places. Interestingly no club sits in the gap between 3,000 and 4,000 which is an intriguing phenomenon - as is Morton the only side between 1,600 and 2,400 and Alloa alone between 950 and 1,500. Similarly further down only East Fife (who have jumped 6 places) sit in the gap from 600-odd to 800-odd. Queen's Park have dropped 4 places - East Fife jumped 6 places. Again an interesting situation with no-one between 400 and 500. In what might you call the third band it's notable Kelty, Linlithgow and Bonnyrigg have now moved ahead of Stranraer, Cowdenbeath, and Albion Rovers; indeed Kelty are also ahead of Edinburgh City and right alongside Annan, while Linlithgow are right alongside City, and Albion also rank below Bo'ness. Some notable risers and fallers in the lowest reaches are - Sauchie (jumped 9 places); Threave (jumped 7); Hill of Beath (jumped 15); Ormiston (dropped 19); Lochmaben (dropped 12); Stirling Uni (jumped 7); Haddington (jumped 17); Easthouses (jumped 24); Dalkeith (jumped 31 - biggest jump of all!); Tynecastle (jumped 11); Blackburn (jumped 11); Wigtown (dropped 7); Edusport (jumped 13); and Heriot-Watt Uni (jumped 16). In some cases normal crowds are low enough for a big derby to "rocket" sides upwards. Bonnyton remain the worst-supported side in the system. Indeed it would take them 137yrs to reach the same aggregate attendance as a single game at Celtic, the best-supported side.57,359 Celtic 49,586 Rangers 17,856 Hearts 17,564 Hibs 14,954 Aberdeen 6,214 Dundee 5,923 Kilmarnock 5,725 Motherwell 5,305 Dundee Utd 5,289 St Mirren 4,996 Dunfermline 4,572 Falkirk 4,179 St Johnstone 4,051 Livingston 4,042 Ross County 3,075 Hamilton 2,906 Partick 2,456 Ayr 2,442 Inverness 2,018 Morton 1,657 Raith 1,524 Queen of the South 1,093 Alloa 962 Arbroath 815 Montrose 815 Airdrie 710 East Fife 633 Forfar 619 Dumbarton 617 Peterhead 614 Elgin 605 Stirling Albion 581 Queen's Park 559 Clyde 561 Stenhousemuir 523 Brechin 492 Berwick 398 Annan 396 Kelty 362 Edinburgh City 361 Linlithgow 346 Bonnyrigg 338 Stranraer 334 Cowdenbeath 280 Bo'ness 260 Albion Rovers 225 Tranent 224 Musselburgh 193 East Stirlingshire 185 East Kilbride 185 Spartans 183 Penicuik 182 Camelon 161 Dundonald 160 Broxburn 160 Newtongrange 141 Dalkeith 139 Hill of Beath 130 Gala 127 Dalbeattie 126 Dunbar 117 Easthouses 117 Sauchie 113 Arniston 113 Cumbernauld 113 Haddington 110 Whitehill 109 Threave 107 Dunipace 98 Coldstream 96 Crossgates 93 Inverkeithing 91 Vale of Leithen 89 Gretna 88 University of Stirling 87 Oakley 83 Burntisland 83 Mid Annandale 82 Edinburgh University 82 Tynecastle 80 Blackburn 80 BSCG 80 Preston 79 St Andrews 75 Jeanfield 75 Peebles 74 Newton Stewart 74 Nithsdale 74 Tweedmouth 70 Civil Service 66 Lochmaben 61 Heriot-Watt University 60 Eyemouth 57 Edusport Academy 55 St Cuthbert 54 Ormiston 53 LTHV 51 Abbey Vale 49 Upper Annandale 47 Edinburgh Utd 46 Selkirk 44 Creetown 43 Dumfries YMCA 43 Hawick 42 Craigroyston 42 Lochar 42 Wigtown 40 Heston 40 Leith 28 Bonnyton (SOSL club figures include cup-ties; handful of other games are missing). Edited January 18, 2019 by HibeeJibee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 11/10/2018 at 09:30, stuart87 said: Camelon’s average has fair went up since they joined the pyramid this season. Last season their average was 90 odd, now they’re up at 229. On 11/10/2018 at 09:39, HibeeJibee said: They report doubling ST sales with the move... However their average is currently inflated by having drawn 415 v Linlithgow in a derby game on the September international break: their other home crowds have been between 100 and 172, and the league games without Linlithgow average 135. As the season goes on it is more likely to settle down somewhere in the mid-100s, I'd suspect. e.g. everything else averaging 135 = overall average 160. Actually they haven't sunk much so far... 182. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priti priti priti Patel Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 How is it Linlithgow feature in many of the highest attended 'non league's games but their home attendance is only in the 300s. Do they just have a very high percentage of fans who travel to away games? Also, what is it about Kelty v Dalbeattie that causes that game to be so well attended? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said: Also, what is it about Kelty v Dalbeattie that causes that game to be so well attended? Dalbeattie at home was their first ever Lowland League game, second one was a Scottish Cup replay with a chance to play Peterhead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Why no Highland league figures? Don't they publish them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Why no Highland league figures? Don't they publish them?Theres very few HL posters on p&b hence they are missing (HL & other northern football is on the fitbanorth forum). The figures are a mix of official sources & headcounts by posters here or sourced from headcounts by folk over at non-league matters (the hub for groundhopping in the UK) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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