Oldest Junior Football Team?

[santheman]

10 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Be honest now, you googled "stereotypical".

0/10

[larkyforever]

13 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Straight to band practise?

You may also not be aware that the Club were almost called Larkhall Celtic, Thistle won on a 3-2 vote. Note this was 10 years before the formation of Celtic. 3 names were propsed- Caledonian, Celtic and Thistle.

Never noticed Sans post before putting this up- however, not sure regarding his explanation as I understand that the names proposed were to exhibit a Scottish identity, and those famous Red and White colours chosen to represent the strong socialist convictions of the community.

I did the piece for Jim O Donnells  summary in the ET some twenty -five years ago.

.

Edited March 8, 2020 by larkyforever

[larkyforever]

10 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Be honest now, you googled "stereotypical".

Average IQ for a LARKIE fan is over 140.

The whole Albert support , team and officials together is 46.  

[Tutankhamen]

On 8 March 2020 at 10:30, larkyforever said:

You may also not be aware that the Club were almost called Larkhall Celtic, Thistle won on a 3-2 vote. Note this was 10 years before the formation of Celtic. 3 names were propsed- Caledonian, Celtic and Thistle.

Never noticed Sans post before putting this up- however, not sure regarding his explanation as I understand that the names proposed were to exhibit a Scottish identity, and those famous Red and White colours chosen to represent the strong socialist convictions of the community.

I did the piece for Jim O Donnells  summary in the ET some twenty -five years ago.

.

I notice you've put the Larkhall Celtic story on here more than once. The name Celtic in itself doesn make something Green/Irishy. Queens Park looked at calling themselves The Celts in the early days.

I think you've got the story back to front.

Had Larkhall Thistle called themselves Larkhall Celtic what difference would it have made?

Would Brother Walfrid have dropped using the name Celtic because there's was a team in Larkhall using the name? He already started a previous team called Partick Celtic.

You seem to be very touchy on what was only banter on my part. Personally i never knew why Larkhall got it's redneck image. It could just have easily applied to a lot of towns and villages in the Central Belt.

[larkyforever]

1 hour ago, Tutankhamen said:

I notice you've put the Larkhall Celtic story on here more than once. The name Celtic in itself doesn make something Green/Irishy. Queens Park looked at calling themselves The Celts in the early days.

I think you've got the story back to front.

Had Larkhall Thistle called themselves Larkhall Celtic what difference would it have made?

Would Brother Walfrid have dropped using the name Celtic because there's was a team in Larkhall using the name? He already started a previous team called Partick Celtic.

You seem to be very touchy on what was only banter on my part. Personally i never knew why Larkhall got it's redneck image. It could just have easily applied to a lot of towns and villages in the Central Belt.

Youre mixing me up with San the man, I think,,,,,

[Tutankhamen]

45 minutes ago, larkyforever said:

Youre mixing me up with San the man, I think,,,,,

Haven't seen a deflection like that since the late great Bobby Murdoch.

[santheman]

2 hours ago, gogsy said:

Arthurlie was 1874. I remember reading an article somewhere that the senior  Arthurlie team that resigned from the second division was a different one from the current Arthurlie team that started in the intermediate league in 1930-31 season. Is also mentioned on a post here. (2nd paragraph from RobertR post)

http://www.scottishleague.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4898&p=28998&hilit=arthurlie#p28998

Looks like its the blueprint for Sevco 80 years later.

 

Sorry it was 1874.

A couple of teams who claim 1873 VOC and one other whose name escapes me but no historical evidence that Im aware of that backs their claims up so still sticking with Arthurlie as the oldest team and Larkhall as the oldest Junior team although RobRoy were also founded in 1878 but no-one seems to know the exact date

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by santheman

[JockB]

a fantastic resource 

https://www.scottishjuniorfa.com/scottish-junior-fa/history/scottish-junior-portfolio/

very difficult to ascertain who exactly is the oldest current junior club or ex junior soon to be non league club.  so long ago,  so many gaps in clubs histories and so many different scenarios played out back in the 1870s and 1880s. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by JockB

[santheman]

29 minutes ago, JockB said:

a fantastic resource 

https://www.scottishjuniorfa.com/scottish-junior-fa/history/scottish-junior-portfolio/

very difficult to ascertain who exactly is the oldest current junior club or ex junior soon to be non league club.  so long ago,  so many gaps in clubs histories and so many different scenarios played out back in the 1870s and 1880s. 

Think part of the problem was that there were a lot of pit teams (certainly in this area)who were formed in the early 1870’s by the miners  and only played friendlies against other pits so there was no record of these teams/games as there was no league set up as such.

 

[larkyforever]

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 00:11, santheman said:

Sorry it was 1874.

A couple of teams who claim 1873 VOC and one other whose name escapes me but no historical evidence that Im aware of that backs their claims up so still sticking with Arthurlie as the oldest team and Larkhall as the oldest Junior team although RobRoy were also founded in 1878 but no-one seems to know the exact date

 

Our birthday was 3 days ago, the 17th.   142 years and counting.....

[larkyforever]

On 09/10/2018 at 21:30, Blackie Gold said:

So you have no evidence that there was a grade of Junior football when Larkhall were formed. I have put forward a source that teams were Junior, it comes from a renowned group of historians. Also the club itself class themselves as the oldest Junior club. Have you got the evidence to prove that they are telling a great big lie?

Easily answered. The only club appearing in the first Junior Cup competition and still playing today is LARKHALL THISTLE.

[Dale B Cooper]

9 hours ago, larkyforever said:

Easily answered. The only club appearing in the first Junior Cup competition and still playing today is LARKHALL THISTLE.

Maryhill also played in the first Junior Cup, so is that a different team than the Maryhill of today (genuinely no idea, so not trying to be snide!)?

http://sfha.org.uk/scottishjuniorcup18861900.pdf

 

 

 

[sfha]

In the 19th C, Junior clubs were generally those that weren't members of the SFA. The ill-fated formation of a SJFA in 1880 was regarded in the press as a nose-thumb at the SFA as they had banned clubs without a ground from being members. This was colloquially called the Public Park FA. The County FAs had high memberships but a lot of the clubs could be viewed as being junior in status.

[bluedragon]

On 01/04/2024 at 21:39, sfha said:

In the 19th C, Junior clubs were generally those that weren't members of the SFA. The ill-fated formation of a SJFA in 1880 was regarded in the press as a nose-thumb at the SFA as they had banned clubs without a ground from being members. This was colloquially called the Public Park FA. The County FAs had high memberships but a lot of the clubs could be viewed as being junior in status.

To add to SFHA’s post…..

In the 19^th century and early 20^th century “junior” was a generic term to describe the wide range of adult local football played beneath the national leagues and cups throughout the British Isles and not just in Scotland.  Over time the term fell out of use in England and elsewhere and in Northern Ireland I believe it became the colloquial name used for amateur football.  In Scotland the term stuck due to it becoming a formal term describing a specific grade of the game with the naming of the Scottish Junior Football Association.  However, the name “Scottish Junior Football Association” was not the first choice of title but the only one that used the word "junior" for the new association in 1880.  The SJFA name was eventually agreed with the Scottish Football Association that thought it clearly differentiated the two associations and which was superior.  After the early demise of the first SJFA local Junior Football Associations started to spring up all over the country and the creation of the second SJFA in 1886 was instigated by these associations wanting an umbrella association.

So back to the original question!  I would say clubs that were established before either version of the SJFA was formed can describe themselves as “junior” clubs from their establishment.

Edited April 3 by bluedragon

[sfha]

On 01/04/2024 at 21:39, sfha said:

In the 19th C, Junior clubs were generally those that weren't members of the SFA. The ill-fated formation of a SJFA in 1880 was regarded in the press as a nose-thumb at the SFA as they had banned clubs without a ground from being members. This was colloquially called the Public Park FA. The County FAs had high memberships but a lot of the clubs could be viewed as being junior in status.

Oops! That nose-thumb was actually a reference to the West of Scotland FA which existed between 1877 and 1879! However this could also be viewed as Junior association and a direct forerunner to the first SJFA in 1880.

[Hillonearth]

On 20/03/2024 at 21:15, Dale B Cooper said:

Maryhill also played in the first Junior Cup, so is that a different team than the Maryhill of today (genuinely no idea, so not trying to be snide!)?

http://sfha.org.uk/scottishjuniorcup18861900.pdf

 

Yeah, it's us - we formed in 1884. We went senior for a few years in the late 1880s and played in the big Scottish back then as well just to muddy the waters!