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Oldest Junior Football Team?

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When looking at Twitter this afternoon to see the ties for Junior Cup 3rd Round. I noticed a couple of Dundee East Craigie fans saying their team are the oldest Junior team
 
According to Wikipedia:
 
Dundee East Craigie have played unbroken since their formation, and lay claim to being the oldest Junior club in Scotland although this is disputed by other clubs such as Kirkintilloch Rob Roy, Larkhall Thistle and Vale of Clyde....
 
Who is correct? All 4 teams formed around 1879 / 1880?
 
I always thought Larkhall were oldest Junior team just through reading of their programme & history on their website. Who is right? Anyone know or care?


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East Craigie have a sign outside their ground proclaiming them to be Scotland's oldest junior club, but I seem to recall some years back that they merged (taken over?) by neighbours Elmwood as they were about to fold.

That gives them an Airdrieonians/Clydebank/Airdrie United/ back to Airdrieonians type of history. Could be wrong though.

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Rather than jump in without researching I trawled through the "History of the Juniors 100 Years which has Larkhall formed in 1878. Granted it didn't say they were Junior so I used the excellent Scottish Historians Club Index that states that Larkhall were Junior. Seemingly there was a grade of Junior football in 1878, but no SJFA or Lanarkshire League. But you being a Fife Fanny you might be right, but then again you might not be. Could you please point me in the direction though where I can phsically read that there was no Junior football in 1878, I would be deeply interested.

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9 minutes ago, gogsy said:

No such thing as junior football in 1878 so second sentence is bull. Maybe you can point out the Junior Competitions they played in before the formation of the Lanarkshire Football Association ( in 1885 according to the Juniors Centenary book)

Though they were playing at Gasworks in 1881. The early days of the Juniors seems as muddy as Lochburn come late March.

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The big historical club list that is online somewhere (sorry to be so vague - I am looking at an older offline version of it) that shows Junior clubs popping up from the early 1870s.

There is a lot of fluidity though between Junior and Senior in those early days and clubs jumped back and forth...

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2 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

There is a lot of fluidity though between Junior and Senior in those early days and clubs jumped back and forth...

Just like nowadays? :wacko:

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13 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

The big historical club list that is online somewhere (sorry to be so vague - I am looking at an older offline version of it) that shows Junior clubs popping up from the early 1870s.

There is a lot of fluidity though between Junior and Senior in those early days and clubs jumped back and forth...

I had a look myself and just going through the teams starting with A there was quite a few that were formed before the SJFA.

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5 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Scottish historians club index funnily enough has copied date from Larkhalls history. There was no grade of football known as junior  football in 1878. A lack of any evidence of any source from that period describing any grade of football as junior seems to give the game away here.

So you have no evidence that there was a grade of Junior football when Larkhall were formed. I have put forward a source that teams were Junior, it comes from a renowned group of historians. Also the club itself class themselves as the oldest Junior club. Have you got the evidence to prove that they are telling a great big lie?

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Where is your proof? Why would Larkhall publically display that they are Scotland's oldest Junior football club if it was a lie.

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2 minutes ago, gogsy said:

From Larkhalls website: Or according to the Fife Fanny's take on things "Liarhalls Thistle" website.

Larkall Thistle is a junior football club based in South Lanarkshire in Scotland. Thistle are the oldest junior football club in Scotland and currently play in the Stagecoach West of Scotland League Central District First Division.

Larkhall Thistle were founded in 1878 making them the oldest junior football club in Scotland. They started out at Loch Park in Larkhall but in 1881 moved to their present home, Gasworks Park, situated just behind the main cross in Larkhall. They have just finished the last season of sharing the ground with local rivals Royal Albert.

 

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Taken from the SJFA history. There was an earlier Scottish Junior FA, which was founded in Glasgow in October 1880. This body also ran a Scottish Junior Cup competition during 1880–81 season but appears to have disbanded at the end of that season. Could it be that with the amount of Junior teams kicking about at that time an attempt was made to rope them in, but it failed?

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2 minutes ago, gogsy said:

None of that states they were playing junior football in 1878 just states they were formed in that year. There was no organised football at that level in Scotland in 1878 , the only organised football at that time was what is now classed  as senior, anything else was just a kick about by two teams.

Better get back onto the keyboard after you read the above post.

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Newtongrange are, of course, the oldest Junior football club. 

 

 

The evidence? Well it says in the Bible that the Wise Men followed the Star... 

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So let me get this right Larkhall Thistle are not the oldest Junior club because there was no Junior football at that time (still to be proven). So any club formed in 1886 when the SJFA were formed have a legal right to be the oldest Junior club, along with Larkhall. I'm only quoting what Larkhall are saying, so by rights their website should read  they are one of a number of oldest Junior clubs. Is that correct

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