Berwick Rangers 2018/2019 Thread

[Redcar]

2 hours ago, dougster said:

It's not that we are dreadful, it's the feeling that nothing is being done to stop it happening that's the bit I am failing to understand

 

1 hour ago, NELLY said:

trust me mate. Your team is dreadful. Should you do better - 100% but your team is as poor as I have seen in the lower leagues even comparing to our terrible team that finished bottom twice in 2 years.

I'm sure he meant it's not 'just' that we are dreadful..... 

My incredulity is about the managers complete failure to do anything about the most glaring deficiency in the team, and that is the big Steve Notman shaped hole in front of the defence. 

The defence is crap enough without the players in front of them just squandering possession within seconds of getting it. Trying to play 'assist of the year' passes that never come off, when a simple ball out wide is available, really boils my piss.

Brown? Cook? Mcilduff? Murphy? Forbes? Blues playing deeper?  2 weeks to at least try something different. 

 

 

[The_Pit_Owns]

1 hour ago, Redcar said:

'assist of the year' 

I really hope this isn't a thing! 

[Redcar]

12 minutes ago, The_Pit_Owns said:

I really hope this isn't a thing! 

I made it up. 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

5 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

Theres no EOS vs SOS match this season as Stranraer Reserves won the SOS & reserve teams aren't eligble to be promoted to LL

Well at least we know how this OF Colts pish started then. Shocker!

[dougster]

Ok here’s my tuppence worth, my first game was 1968 vs East Fife, I’ve watched us up and down Scotland ever since, even flying back from Germany on one occasion,  (flights were dearer then than they are now) From Keith to Stranraer, I’ve seen us win lose and get battered but I’m saddened, deeply saddened it has come to this. 

What bothers me is this has been caused by a battle of wills, a refusal to let go of what little power and influence the guys at the top have or it some cases want. The board are far from united and last summers ‘rebellion’ was symbolic of how the club has been run for years now. Craig points to the Trust as a root cause of this divide and there is some truth in that but the main cause of division has been the supporters club. They are the major shareholders and nothing can be done without their say so. The nominated Len Eyre as chairman, a nice fellow I’m told but not a board chairman that is for sure. The summer rebels saw this and tried to change things although I don’t agree with how it was done, ultimately, they have been proven correct. I was told to get in line and we are all ‘pulling in the same direction.’ My question of which direction would that be has now been answered. 

Im too far away to be involved in a weekly basis but even from here it was plain something has not been right for years. So here we are. I cannot forgive the current board and that includes my long time friend JB for what I believe has been a shambles for the last 3 years. John should have been made chair when Porteous left but the supporters club bought his shares with our money (because everyone who has bought a ticket from Conny or Jimmy two times has contributed) and put their own man in the hot seat. I expect some flak for this and the usual it’s ok for you but over the years I bet I’ve personally  put more money into the club than half the current directors have. 

So we are where we are. It was coming only delayed by the shitshow that was Cowden the last two season( 12 points we took lads not a measly 10 ), 

what annoys me the most is not that we are in the play offs but more so the fact we have done nothing zilch zippo to try and turn it around. JH was told by an ex player on Saturday to eff off as he had destroyed a hundred years of history. That ex player one of my heroes, was right 

 

[marty_j]

So we are where we are. It was coming only delayed by the shitshow that was Cowden the last two season( 12 points we took lads not a measly 10 ), 

what annoys me the most is not that we are in the play offs but more so the fact we have done nothing zilch zippo to try and turn it around. JH was told by an ex player on Saturday to eff off as he had destroyed a hundred years of history. That ex player one of my heroes, was right 

 

 

 

 

Superb post Doug.

 

Who’d have thought “we are not Montrose/Cowdenbeath/Albion Rovers” would not be sustainable.

 

 

[BerwickMad]

Ok here’s my tuppence worth, my first game was 1968 vs East Fife, I’ve watched us up and down Scotland ever since, even flying back from Germany on one occasion,  (flights were dearer then than they are now) From Keith to Stranraer, I’ve seen us win lose and get battered but I’m saddened, deeply saddened it has come to this. 
What bothers me is this has been caused by a battle of wills, a refusal to let go of what little power and influence the guys at the top have or it some cases want. The board are far from united and last summers ‘rebellion’ was symbolic of how the club has been run for years now. Craig points to the Trust as a root cause of this divide and there is some truth in that but the main cause of division has been the supporters club. They are the major shareholders and nothing can be done without their say so. The nominated Len Eyre as chairman, a nice fellow I’m told but not a board chairman that is for sure. The summer rebels saw this and tried to change things although I don’t agree with how it was done, ultimately, they have been proven correct. I was told to get in line and we are all ‘pulling in the same direction.’ My question of which direction would that be has now been answered. 
Im too far away to be involved in a weekly basis but even from here it was plain something has not been right for years. So here we are. I cannot forgive the current board and that includes my long time friend JB for what I believe has been a shambles for the last 3 years. John should have been made chair when Porteous left but the supporters club bought his shares with our money (because everyone who has bought a ticket from Conny or Jimmy two times has contributed) and put their own man in the hot seat. I expect some flak for this and the usual it’s ok for you but over the years I bet I’ve personally  put more money into the club than half the current directors have. 
So we are where we are. It was coming only delayed by the shitshow that was Cowden the last two season( 12 points we took lads not a measly 10 ), 
what annoys me the most is not that we are in the play offs but more so the fact we have done nothing zilch zippo to try and turn it around. JH was told by an ex player on Saturday to eff off as he had destroyed a hundred years of history. That ex player one of my heroes, was right 
 

You’re entitled to your opinion, but unsurprisingly I’m going to disagree.

I am/was totally supportive of the supporter ownership model until a few years ago. I’m a member of both the SC and the Trust, and support the general aims of both. I never went along with the few on each side who seemed to see it as a competition. I’m not going to go into too much detail, but both have done good things over the years, usually when working together. From forcing the clubs hand over Crease, to stopping that nonsense in the summer.

The talk of a refusal to relinquish power at the top is nonsense in my eyes, especially when pointed at the SC. What I will say though, is that there has been a reluctance to ‘relinquish power’ to what could be described as John Bells vision of a football club. A vision that he’s entitled to have but that certainly don’t believe the majority of supporters want to see. I’m not criticising John for that vision btw. He’s held it for nearly two decades and hasn’t moved from it one inch. However for as long as I’ve been involved in the SC, I know that the aim hasn’t been to consolidate power at the top. If anything we’ve been desperate to see people come into the club with ideas and investment. I think you could ask people who’ve invested, people like Monty or Neil Templeman, a multi-millionaire who was put off at the first sign of resistance. He didn’t need it. In the post chairman vote meltdown there was even an attempt to throw Monty off the board, while at the same time just attempting to get anyone on there to replace him. Jonny Fairbairn’s dad? Seriously? With the SC theres been attempts to bring people in, TRFC, the seniors, younger fans, to help influence the club. I don’t get the sense that there’s been much ‘compromise’ or a search for new ideas in the John approach. More, ‘come on board to back me up’. And btw, I’m not denying the faults of the SC of which there are many (including publicising what we do) and is why I believe new blood is needed more than ever.

I know John too and nothing I say is personal against him. He has many skills that would make him a great chairman. He’s approachable, he speaks well and he’s done a lot in the community. I actually slightly favoured him for the chairman role when it came up and said so at the SC meeting. That despite what I’d seen in the past as a member of the trust board. But the reaction after was dreadful. The arrogance that a picture on a piece of paper and a PowerPoint presentation was enough to blow everyone away. The stadium plan was never feasible and the £12k for a feasibility study couldn’t even be reached. It got people’s hopes up in the town, unrealistically. Have a look at the site. It doesn’t take a feasibility study to realise it would cost millions to get it ready before a brick would even go down. My opinion is that the aim was probably more wrapped up in taking some SC influence away as leaseholders of the stadium. My hope for Lenny was that at least he’d be able to listen and wouldn’t block ideas and potential investment.

The post chairman vote meltdown continued. Board leaks (by we all know who) on players, what people were saying in meetings, the Robbie Horn debacle when Coughlin was manager, desperate attempts to replace directors, met with an attempt from the other side to look for new people themselves. The ‘keep this to yourself’ in a room full of fans. No, unprofessional I’m afraid. So much energy used up when the club should have been moving forward together. It wasn’t allowed to, which is why at the end of Coughlins full season I said I wanted totally new people to take the club forward and had come to the conclusion that they’d all failed. Totally sick of the supporter ownership model which put too much power in the hands of people with little financial risk.

Now I want investment and change. I’m desperate for it. Not the magic beans I was wrongly accused of in the ‘keep it in the dressing room talk’, a realisation from everyone that we need it. To make the club as attractive as possible for potential investors. Not the ‘we only want investment for facilities’ line the forum, suggesting the way forward is now settled under John, the strategy ideas by Mathison swept under the carpet.

I’ve suggested that the SC and Trust should offer up as enough shares to give someone, or a group a controlling interest to invest and take the club forward. However to claim that the idiots last summer were ‘proven correct’ is bizarre. To this day, nearly a year on they’ve said nothing. They made absolutely no attempt to say what they were doing or what their aim was. They seemed to be deliberately agitating, from the stair lift to Tweedmouth Rangers. Little more than one line statements causing upset without consultation. The slashing of the wage bill in an attempt to break even immediately despite the club having money in the bank and the excuses for it. See at the bottom for a sample of the nonsense that Watkins spouts, from today. The action last summer wasn’t just an attempt to keep power, it was vital to stop an absolute disaster at the time and unsurprising supported by both supporters groups. It’s no wonder everyone came together against it. It was something that looked far worse than anything that had gone on before. I’d be delighted if someone like Graham Bell who I’ve known for years and don’t dislike to actually came out and explained what the aim was. They’ve said nothing and make no mistake, the fact that Robbie only had his budget put back up to a normal level in August contributed massively to our terrible start to the season.

Though I am going to say, this has little to do with the current scenario. The gradual drift, the infighting, the egos, the energy that’s been zapped out of the club, all less important than our current inaction on the manager. He was dealt a shit card, we get that. The fans understand that. Very few were calling for his head in the first few months. But it’s been clear for a long time that he’s had to go. I’ve talked about a gradual drift and incremental failure in the past rather than huge errors, but I’d class the lack of action now as a huge error. It shouldn’t have been too difficult to stay up this season, but we’ve utterly bottled it and failed. This, imo is the worst decision/non-decision I’ve seen since supporting the club.

[dougster]

8 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:

You’re entitled to your opinion, but unsurprisingly I’m going to disagree.

I am/was totally supportive of the supporter ownership model until a few years ago. I’m a member of both the SC and the Trust, and support the general aims of both. I never went along with the few on each side who seemed to see it as a competition. I’m not going to go into too much detail, but both have done good things over the years, usually when working together. From forcing the clubs hand over Crease, to stopping that nonsense in the summer.

The talk of a refusal to relinquish power at the top is nonsense in my eyes, especially when pointed at the SC. What I will say though, is that there has been a reluctance to ‘relinquish power’ to what could be described as John Bells vision of a football club. A vision that he’s entitled to have but that certainly don’t believe the majority of supporters want to see. I’m not criticising John for that vision btw. He’s held it for nearly two decades and hasn’t moved from it one inch. However for as long as I’ve been involved in the SC, I know that the aim hasn’t been to consolidate power at the top. If anything we’ve been desperate to see people come into the club with ideas and investment. I think you could ask people who’ve invested, people like Monty or Neil Templeman, a multi-millionaire who was put off at the first sign of resistance. He didn’t need it. In the post chairman vote meltdown there was even an attempt to throw Monty off the board, while at the same time just attempting to get anyone on there to replace him. Jonny Fairbairn’s dad? Seriously? With the SC theres been attempts to bring people in, TRFC, the seniors, younger fans, to help influence the club. I don’t get the sense that there’s been much ‘compromise’ or a search for new ideas in the John approach. More, ‘come on board to back me up’. And btw, I’m not denying the faults of the SC of which there are many (including publicising what we do) and is why I believe new blood is needed more than ever.

I know John too and nothing I say is personal against him. He has many skills that would make him a great chairman. He’s approachable, he speaks well and he’s done a lot in the community. I actually slightly favoured him for the chairman role when it came up and said so at the SC meeting. That despite what I’d seen in the past as a member of the trust board. But the reaction after was dreadful. The arrogance that a picture on a piece of paper and a PowerPoint presentation was enough to blow everyone away. The stadium plan was never feasible and the £12k for a feasibility study couldn’t even be reached. It got people’s hopes up in the town, unrealistically. Have a look at the site. It doesn’t take a feasibility study to realise it would cost millions to get it ready before a brick would even go down. My opinion is that the aim was probably more wrapped up in taking some SC influence away as leaseholders of the stadium. My hope for Lenny was that at least he’d be able to listen and wouldn’t block ideas and potential investment.

The post chairman vote meltdown continued. Board leaks (by we all know who) on players, what people were saying in meetings, the Robbie Horn debacle when Coughlin was manager, desperate attempts to replace directors, met with an attempt from the other side to look for new people themselves. The ‘keep this to yourself’ in a room full of fans. No, unprofessional I’m afraid. So much energy used up when the club should have been moving forward together. It wasn’t allowed to, which is why at the end of Coughlins full season I said I wanted totally new people to take the club forward and had come to the conclusion that they’d all failed. Totally sick of the supporter ownership model which put too much power in the hands of people with little financial risk.

Now I want investment and change. I’m desperate for it. Not the magic beans I was wrongly accused of in the ‘keep it in the dressing room talk’, a realisation from everyone that we need it. To make the club as attractive as possible for potential investors. Not the ‘we only want investment for facilities’ line the forum, suggesting the way forward is now settled under John, the strategy ideas by Mathison swept under the carpet.

I’ve suggested that the SC and Trust should offer up as enough shares to give someone, or a group a controlling interest to invest and take the club forward. However to claim that the idiots last summer were ‘proven correct’ is bizarre. To this day, nearly a year on they’ve said nothing. They made absolutely no attempt to say what they were doing or what their aim was. They seemed to be deliberately agitating, from the stair lift to Tweedmouth Rangers. Little more than one line statements causing upset without consultation. The slashing of the wage bill in an attempt to break even immediately despite the club having money in the bank and the excuses for it. See at the bottom for a sample of the nonsense that Watkins spouts, from today. The action last summer wasn’t just an attempt to keep power, it was vital to stop an absolute disaster at the time and unsurprising supported by both supporters groups. It’s no wonder everyone came together against it. It was something that looked far worse than anything that had gone on before. I’d be delighted if someone like Graham Bell who I’ve known for years and don’t dislike to actually came out and explained what the aim was. They’ve said nothing and make no mistake, the fact that Robbie only had his budget put back up to a normal level in August contributed massively to our terrible start to the season.

Though I am going to say, this has little to do with the current scenario. The gradual drift, the infighting, the egos, the energy that’s been zapped out of the club, all less important than our current inaction on the manager. He was dealt a shit card, we get that. The fans understand that. Very few were calling for his head in the first few months. But it’s been clear for a long time that he’s had to go. I’ve talked about a gradual drift and incremental failure in the past rather than huge errors, but I’d class the lack of action now as a huge error. It shouldn’t have been too difficult to stay up this season, but we’ve utterly bottled it and failed. This, imo is the worst decision/non-decision I’ve seen since supporting the club.

 

A very selective take on what i have said but your comments have been noted

[HibeeJibee]

Over ~10yrs we've slid down to don the league-propping roles Albion, Montrose, Cowden, Elgin, Clyde and most famously 'Shire have periodically occupied... It's been gradual but inexorable, though the latest stage has come rapidly and severely, and avoidably.

Since the pyramid was introduced we've finished 8th (on GD), 6th, 8th, 8th, and now 10th. Put simply our luck has run out. It's only the good fortune of the playoff system employed that gives us the potential succour of saving our own skins... To think that "only" 12 years ago we were champions of this division? Only a few years before that we spent a couple of seasons genuinely in the hunt to reach what is now the Championship? However that is a long time in football. Long enough to go from fighting to make tier 2 to battling to avoid tier 5. Long enough for this painful - yet numbing - 'fall from grace' permeated by occasional cup-runs, TV ties and 1 playoff SF.

Basically: both arguments are correct. We've been sinking toward this for years... and this season has plumbed and hastened on to a new level of woe. We have descended to the mantle of the wooden-spoonist.

Edited April 29, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[Blue Oktober]

3 hours ago, dougster said:

Ok here’s my tuppence worth, my first game was 1968 vs East Fife, I’ve watched us up and down Scotland ever since, even flying back from Germany on one occasion,  (flights were dearer then than they are now) From Keith to Stranraer, I’ve seen us win lose and get battered but I’m saddened, deeply saddened it has come to this. 

What bothers me is this has been caused by a battle of wills, a refusal to let go of what little power and influence the guys at the top have or it some cases want. The board are far from united and last summers ‘rebellion’ was symbolic of how the club has been run for years now. Craig points to the Trust as a root cause of this divide and there is some truth in that but the main cause of division has been the supporters club. They are the major shareholders and nothing can be done without their say so. The nominated Len Eyre as chairman, a nice fellow I’m told but not a board chairman that is for sure. The summer rebels saw this and tried to change things although I don’t agree with how it was done, ultimately, they have been proven correct. I was told to get in line and we are all ‘pulling in the same direction.’ My question of which direction would that be has now been answered. 

Im too far away to be involved in a weekly basis but even from here it was plain something has not been right for years. So here we are. I cannot forgive the current board and that includes my long time friend JB for what I believe has been a shambles for the last 3 years. John should have been made chair when Porteous left but the supporters club bought his shares with our money (because everyone who has bought a ticket from Conny or Jimmy two times has contributed) and put their own man in the hot seat. I expect some flak for this and the usual it’s ok for you but over the years I bet I’ve personally  put more money into the club than half the current directors have. 

So we are where we are. It was coming only delayed by the shitshow that was Cowden the last two season( 12 points we took lads not a measly 10 ), 

what annoys me the most is not that we are in the play offs but more so the fact we have done nothing zilch zippo to try and turn it around. JH was told by an ex player on Saturday to eff off as he had destroyed a hundred years of history. That ex player one of my heroes, was right 

 

Sorry I am sure I am being thick been a long day not sure what you men by that statement ?

[dougster]

1 minute ago, Blue Oktober said:

Sorry I am sure I am being thick been a long day not sure what you men by that statement ?

Sorry pointing out we beat you 4 times last season, a wee dig back at the posters thanking us for the 10 points you won from us this year, too little too late I know

[Blue Oktober]

6 hours ago, Redcar said:

 

I'm sure he meant it's not 'just' that we are dreadful..... 

My incredulity is about the managers complete failure to do anything about the most glaring deficiency in the team, and that is the big Steve Notman shaped hole in front of the defence. 

The defence is crap enough without the players in front of them just squandering possession within seconds of getting it. Trying to play 'assist of the year' passes that never come off, when a simple ball out wide is available, really boils my piss.

Brown? Cook? Mcilduff? Murphy? Forbes? Blues playing deeper?  2 weeks to at least try something different. 

 

 

I have to say I am somewhat surprised  you let Jamie Todd go, my initial view of him  when he started playing for us was he was a fairly average CB  not a star nor a calamity, but I have to say second half against Annan he was excellent and a decent bloke too who seems popular in the dressing room. Surely someone in my opinion would have perhaps partially stemmed the systematic goal haemorrhaging?

 

[Blue Oktober]

6 minutes ago, dougster said:

Sorry pointing out we beat you 4 times last season, a wee dig back at the posters thanking us for the 10 points you won from us this year, too little too late I know

Cheers and fair do's mate still rooting for you and will try make your home leg to lend some additional support as someone who has suffered in the past.

[Alpha Gordini]

13 minutes ago, Blue Oktober said:

I have to say I am somewhat surprised  you let Jamie Todd go, my initial view of him  when he started playing for us was he was a fairly average CB  not a star nor a calamity, but I have to say second half against Annan he was excellent and a decent bloke too who seems popular in the dressing room. Surely someone in my opinion would have perhaps partially stemmed the systematic goal haemorrhaging?

 

You could probably make a team out of all the players that we've let go since the start of 2018... and they'd beat our current best team

 

[Muzza81]

Todd, Phillips, Willis, keeper from Hibs would surely improve your XI from Saturday no question. I guess if they didn’t want to play for you nothing you can do.

[Fergie1]

I think the way Phillips celebrated first and second goals tell you what he thinks of our current manager! I would imagine these thoughts are shared even amongst current players. The w****r is putting his relationship/spats with players before our very existence. I can guarantee Wilson and Brennan weren’t injured and brown is probably our best player at the moment. I think that’s clear example of current dressing room unrest. Also was a big fan of Barr when he arrived but he hasn’t kicked a ball for weeks, hopefully he can find that form again next 3 weeks. 

[Only an observer]

#injohnnywetrust

[Blue Oktober]

13 minutes ago, Fergie1 said:

I think the way Phillips celebrated first and second goals tell you what he thinks of our current manager! I would imagine these thoughts are shared even amongst current players. The w****r is putting his relationship/spats with players before our very existence. I can guarantee Wilson and Brennan weren’t injured and brown is probably our best player at the moment. I think that’s clear example of current dressing room unrest. Also was a big fan of Barr when he arrived but he hasn’t kicked a ball for weeks, hopefully he can find that form again next 3 weeks. 

Looking at the messages out there and trying to join then up my conclusion is that you will 100%  remain with JH as manager until the end of the season. I suspect plan A is to hope he can negotiate the play offs and see you remain in league 2. Plan B seems to be give him the opportunity to build a team to bounce straight back from LL, his comment about judge me after 10 games next season, and the message to maintain entrance at SPFL 2 levels suggest the financial & personnel  approach to this added to announcing the signings of players for next season all look like an endorsement of the current manager from your board. I've read comments around a board vote 4-2 in terms of him remaining but TBH  these things can be built on urban myth & ultimately the Chairman will have the final say.

Overall an interesting approach as no indications that Plan A  can be delivered based on current form. Plan B equally challenging financially asking disillusioned fans to shell out the same entrance to follow a team managed by someone they have no confidence in and also win the LL against established team then beat same from HL & after that SPFL 2 team quite an ambitious  ask based on past performance & observations.

Not a strategy I would have proposed at my own club when in the same tight spot IMHO but not too say the wrong one just from the outside seems somewhat ambitious. 

Hopefully one that works for you.

 

[mid-table]

3 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Over ~10yrs we've slid down to don the league-propping roles Albion, Montrose, Cowden, Elgin, Clyde and most famously 'Shire have periodically occupied... It's been gradual but inexorable, though the latest stage has come rapidly and severely, and avoidably.

Since the pyramid was introduced we've finished 8th (on GD), 6th, 8th, 8th, and now 10th. Put simply our luck has run out. It's only the good fortune of the playoff system employed that gives us the potential succour of saving our own skins... To think that "only" 12 years ago we were champions of this division? Only a few years before that we spent a couple of seasons genuinely in the hunt to reach what is now the Championship? However that is a long time in football. Long enough to go from fighting to make tier 2 to battling to avoid tier 5. Long enough for this painful - yet numbing - 'fall from grace' permeated by occasional cup-runs, TV ties and 1 playoff SF.

Basically: both arguments are correct. We've been sinking toward this for years... and this season has plumbed and hastened on to a new level of woe. We have descended to the mantle of the wooden-spoonist.

100% this.

 

I've been thinking what if, by some absolute miracle, we managed to win the playoff, what would the reaction at the final whistle be? Pitch invasion and wild celebrations at the thought of going through it all again next year because more than likely nothing will change?

[big al]

8 hours ago, mid-table said:

100% this.

 

I've been thinking what if, by some absolute miracle, we managed to win the playoff, what would the reaction at the final whistle be? Pitch invasion and wild celebrations at the thought of going through it all again next year because more than likely nothing will change?

Obviously we have survived the play off, and believe me there’s no celebrations. 

Horrible games to watch.