How many football grounds are there in Scotland?

[GordonS]

So I’m trying to work out how many men’s senior and junior football grounds there are in Scotland and I’m looking for folk more knowledgable than me to check I’ve got this right.

I make it:

42 SPFL - nobody is ground sharing at the moment.

9 Lowland League, with a further 6 sharing with an SPFL club (BSC Glasgow (Alloa), Spartans (yes, I know it’s their ground but the maths is easier this way), Edusport (Annan), Cumbernauld Colts (Clyde), East Stirlingshire (Falkirk) and Stirling Uni (Stirling Albion)). Selkirk have gone to the great football association in the sky.

18 Highland League, none sharing.

38 East of Scotland League grounds, with 1 sharing (Stirling Uni EOS at Stenhousemuir).

12 South of Scotland League, with 4 sharing (Annan reserves, Stranraer reserves, Heston Rovers at QOTS and Lochmaben at Mid-Annandale).

61 West Region Juniors, with 2 sharing (Clydebank at Maryhill and Kirkintilloch Rob Roy at Cumbernauld).

36 East Region Juniors, none sharing.

32 North Region Juniors, none sharing, Inverness City taking a year out and Lewis United sadly disappearing.

9 North Caledonian League clubs and 3 for the cup only, though 2 of those are sharing others’ grounds, so it would add 10 in total.

I make that 258 senior and junior grounds, with, amazingly, 129 senior and 129 junior. Have I got that right?

Also, am I missing anyone who should be counted as “senior”? As members of the SFA, Glasgow Uni are the only ones that spring to mind, but they play in an amateur league. Should it include grounds used for reserve/development league games by senior clubs, such as Murray Park, Oriam indoor and Stirling Uni? 

All thoughts welcome. I suspect @HibeeJibee will set me right. And I'll come back for the women's grounds later.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

You gonna look at grounds used in the ammies as well? I'd call Dunoon's stadium more of a football ground than some of the efforts you'll have listed as an example.

I've also noticed in the past that Wikipedia lists Parkside in Shotts as a current Scottish football venue. Depends how deep you wanna go?

[Richey Edwards]

There's quite a lot m8. I've never thought to count them all.

[GordonS]

8 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

You gonna look at grounds used in the ammies as well? I'd call Dunoon's stadium more of a football ground than some of the efforts you'll have listed as an example.

I've also noticed in the past that Wikipedia lists Parkside in Shotts as a current Scottish football venue. Depends how deep you wanna go?

Nah. Most amateurs play on public parks. My general rule of thumb is that if someone could let their dug shite on it, it's not a football "ground". To be fair I'm sure some of the NCL grounds fall into that category. I think seniors and juniors is enough.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Part timer

[GordonS]

Just now, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Part timer

I never said I was going to them all. But it occurred to me that I must have been to about half, so I thought I'd do a count.

Just looked up Dunoon Stadium. A very impressive, not-so-wee ground. 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

I seem to recall it having a MASSIVE pitch

[Melanius Mullarkey]

It does. I was on it last month.

[Ginaro]

24 minutes ago, GordonS said:

with 1 sharing (Stirling Uni EOS at Stenhousemuir).

I thought they were at Gannochy Sports Centre?

Presume you're annexing Berwick-upon-Tweed for the purposes of this thread

[GordonS]

Just now, Ginaro said:

I thought they were at Gannochy Sports Centre?

Presume you're annexing Berwick-upon-Tweed for the purposes of this thread

I could have sworn I read somewhere that Stirling Uni EOS were playing at Ochilview, but it looks like I was mistaken. That's one more ground then, 259, spoiling the symmetry between senior and juniors.

For the purposes of football Berwick has chosen the path of goodness and enlightenment, so they are Jock Tamson's bairns. Maybe one day they'll realise that they should join us more formally. 

[Marten]

42 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Nah. Most amateurs play on public parks. My general rule of thumb is that if someone could let their dug shite on it, it's not a football "ground". To be fair I'm sure some of the NCL grounds fall into that category. I think seniors and juniors is enough.

Even though it's an amateur league, most or all teams in the Lewis & Harris Football League (8 in total) play on "proper" football grounds, so you could argue that league should be included. I've been past quite a few when I was on Lewis & Harris in August and they are all decent football grounds to a standard that wouldn't look out of place in the juniors.

[DanMc99]

0

[HibeeJibee]

I don't know some of the Junior depths well enough to give total for them.

Within the senior game there are 129 because 2 SPFL (Edinburgh City + Clyde), 4 Lowland (BSCG, East Stirlingshire, Edusport, Stirling Uni) and 2 South (Heston, Lochmaben) groundshare as do Annan SOS and Stranraer SOS, but not Stirling Uni EOS.

However, depending on your definition - e.g. a railed pitch in an enclosed ground? - there will be some "stadiums" scattered around the amateur levels; and also some "parks" in the senior and junior levels, most notably in the North Juniors and SOSL.

[HibeeJibee]

Another outlier could be Heriot-Watt Uni who sort of have 2 stadiums: their regular ground but also the indoor stadium alongside where they've played 2 league games and which has hosted an EOS Qualifying Cup Final.

Stirling Uni conclusively had 2 stadiums - 1 a groundshare - until now as they also played 2 cup competitions at Gannochy, but it seems to have ended this season.

[GordonS]

Amateurs make this too tricky, so they can get tae. I've found a few playing in proper grounds, like Dunoon and Drumchapel, and I'm not anal enough to get into definitions involving perimeter fences or rails or whatever. In England you can just count those in linked pyramid leagues, but here you can't exclude the Juniors, so I'm going with Seniors and Juniors.

3 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

I don't know some of the Junior depths well enough to give total for them.

Within the senior game there are 129 because 2 SPFL (Edinburgh City + Clyde), 4 Lowland (BSCG, East Stirlingshire, Edusport, Stirling Uni) and 2 South (Heston, Lochmaben) groundshare as do Annan SOS and Stranraer SOS, but not Stirling Uni EOS.

However, depending on your definition - e.g. a railed pitch in an enclosed ground? - there will be some "stadiums" scattered around the amateur levels; and also some "parks" in the senior and junior levels, most notably in the North Juniors and SOSL.

Are you counting 9 or 10 for the NCL? I was counting 10, including the teams that only play the cup, would that be a mistake do you think? If I count 10, I make it 130 for the seniors.

So I get:

90 licensed SFA members playing at 84 grounds;

130 clubs in the pyramid playing at 120 grounds (42+18+15+39+16, less 10 sharers)

139 clubs in senior leagues playing at 129 grounds (above plus 9 NCL)

143 clubs in senior competitions playing at 131 grounds (above plus 3 extra in NCL cups, minus two shared grounds, & Glasgow Uni)

131 junior clubs playing at 129 grounds

So arguably 270/274 senior and junior clubs at 258/260 grounds, depending on whether you include those who only play senior cups or restrict it to senior leagues.

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Another outlier could be Heriot-Watt Uni who sort of have 2 stadiums: their regular ground but also the indoor stadium alongside where they've played 2 league games and which has hosted an EOS Qualifying Cup Final.

Stirling Uni conclusively had 2 stadiums - 1 a groundshare - until now as they also played 2 cup competitions at Gannochy, but it seems to have ended this season.

There are a few outliers I can think of, where proper matches have been played but aren't anyone's registered ground, including Oriam indoor, Oriam outdoor grass, Murrayfield, Lesser Hampden, Toryglen indoor and Ravenscraig indoor (held a Junior game during bad weather). But I've chucked trying to work out "how many grounds" because it's a fool's errand.

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

Are you counting 9 or 10 for the NCL? I was counting 10, including the teams that only play the cup, would that be a mistake do you think? If I count 10, I make it 130 for the seniors.

I was counting 9. You presumably mean Lewis & Harris, Shetland and Nairn U20s - but the former pair don't play at home (indeed Shetland have withdrawn entirely) and the latter use Station Park. If you're to count any of those you'd have to count Glasgow Uni who play in the Scottish and South Challenge cups, although of course they groundshare at Airdrie in most competitions.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

I was counting 9. You presumably mean Lewis & Harris, Shetland and Nairn U20s - but the former pair don't play at home (indeed Shetland have withdrawn entirely) and the latter use Station Park. If you're to count any of those you'd have to count Glasgow Uni who play in the Scottish and South Challenge cups, although of course they groundshare at Airdrie in most competitions.

Yes, you'll see further down that I bracket those three with Glasgow Uni as participants in senior cup competitions. I didn't know that Shetland had withdrawn though, and as the others two use other people's grounds, they don't add to the total. Glasgow Uni have played Scottish Cup ties at Garscube, I think they played Cove there not so long ago, but I don't know if they're able to switch matches now or tied to one ground - would you know where to check?

[HibeeJibee]

For the purposes of licensing and SFA membership Glasgow Uni have to play league games and Scottish Cup ties... plus South Challenge Cup ties... at Airdrie. I don't know if they use Garscube for anything at first-team level now, perhaps some amateur cup-ties. You can't register a ground only for the Scottish Cup when it comes to licensing or else everyone would be piling in with a groundshare.

All of the universities can and often do use different pitches in BUCS competition on Wednesdays: e.g. Heriot-Watt have used the indoor stadium at Oriam, and Stirling Uni have used their 'rubber crumb' pitch.

However in a technical sense they're select XIs and not the same clubs. If there were uni students with Linlithgow they could also play for their uni in midweek.

[parsforlife]

For the purposes of licensing and SFA membership Glasgow Uni have to play league games and Scottish Cup ties... plus South Challenge Cup ties... at Airdrie. I don't know if they use Garscube for anything at first-team level now, perhaps some amateur cup-ties. You can't register a ground only for the Scottish Cup when it comes to licensing or else everyone would be piling in with a groundshare.

All of the universities can and often do use different pitches in BUCS competition on Wednesdays: e.g. Heriot-Watt have used the indoor stadium at Oriam, and Stirling Uni have used their 'rubber crumb' pitch.

However in a technical sense they're select XIs and not the same clubs. If there were uni students with Linlithgow they could also play for their uni in midweek.

I suppose you could call stirling uni Bucs, and stirling uni LL/eos different clubs.