The Vaughan Derby: Sons v Raith

[Silverton End]

11 hours ago, Zen Archer said:

 

 

[DumbartonTheSons]

With all the respect in the world, I would suggest that Stevie Aitken knows the dynamic of a dressing room and how to set a team up better than you.
Managed in a competent way? Keeping the club you support in the SPFL Championship for two years plus achieving an appearance in a cup final is as good as it gets for Dumbarton.
That’s a degree of competence right there.
Sticky period right now. It happens.

Everyone has their opinions and are entitled to them.

He may well know he dynamic of the dressing room and how to set a team up better than me. But that doesn't mean he's actually any good at it, does it?

I didn't say I could do better, I was just outlining the issues as I see them. The responsibility for which lies with the manager.

Keeping us in the championship and getting us to a cup final are great achievements but one can't dine out on past glories forever.

Since the cup final under Aitken's stewardship we've been relegated in dire circumstances where we shitfested our way through 179 minutes against a side that were there for the taking. We've now got a squad full of possibly injured players, got hounded in Paisley by a diabolical St. Mirren side, won twice in the league in eight games, chucked a lead in three of the other six games and are playing some eye-bleedingly bad football to boot.

All of that, for me, now calls into question (at the very least) Aitken's competency for this job now and that's why I think a change is needed now.

I'm sure this is a sticky patch and yes, they do happen. But do I think Aitken can or will pull us out of it? No. Do I think another manager could. Most likely.

[DumbartonTheSons]

Thing about that is competing and showing dig ,drive and determination are things that the players should be able to do no matter who the manager is. Right now too many of them don't or perhaps won't produce those qualities

Who runs themselves into the ground for someone they don't respect though? They are paid regardless for the duration of their contract.

Absolutely this. I don't think one person at the Rock on Saturday could seriously believe (injuries or not) that was a Dumbarton team playing for their manager.

My reply has already been made, but yes, while it is the player's who produce those qualities, not many people under a management they feel isn't up to it and can't manage its workforce to its best ability would be able to show those qualities.

[BallochSonsFan]

We were always going to be relegated. It was a matter of when rather than if.

The way it happened last May was unacceptable but as a part time team in a full time league we finished where we were expected to finish. The 16/17 season was reality hitting hard after several years of punching well above our weight.

Somebody was going to be in charge when we went down. It just happened to be Aitken. 

[George Parr]

31 minutes ago, Thommo90 said:

It has been a sticky period since the end of 16/17

Possibly but we took an accelerated nose-dive directly after the Challenge Cup final and have not looked back since.

[Homer Sandoval]

1 hour ago, DumbartonTheSons said:

 

Everyone has their opinions and are entitled to them.

He may well know he dynamic of the dressing room and how to set a team up better than me. But that doesn't mean he's actually any good at it, does it?

I didn't say I could do better, I was just outlining the issues as I see them. The responsibility for which lies with the manager.

Keeping us in the championship and getting us to a cup final are great achievements but one can't dine out on past glories forever.

Since the cup final under Aitken's stewardship we've been relegated in dire circumstances where we shitfested our way through 179 minutes against a side that were there for the taking. We've now got a squad full of possibly injured players, got hounded in Paisley by a diabolical St. Mirren side, won twice in the league in eight games, chucked a lead in three of the other six games and are playing some eye-bleedingly bad football to boot.

All of that, for me, now calls into question (at the very least) Aitken's competency for this job now and that's why I think a change is needed now.

I'm sure this is a sticky patch and yes, they do happen. But do I think Aitken can or will pull us out of it? No. Do I think another manager could. Most likely.

 

Dining out on past glories. Isn't that what happens when supporting a lower league club?  I'm genuinely at a loss what it is you expect. Dumbarton has done remarkably well in the last six years.

Perhaps it's been too much of a good thing and that expectations are from the support unjustifiably high.

Perhaps, for now, Dumbarton are at the level they should be at given the clear problems the club is facing.

A new manager may have a magic wand, or more likely a magic sponge,  He may not. It's a gamble. I just think, from the outside looking in that there is a set of circumstances that are mitigating and as you say, it's about opinions.

[Thommo90]

16 minutes ago, Homer Sandoval said:

Dining out on past glories. Isn't that what happens when supporting a lower league club?  I'm genuinely at a loss what it is you expect. Dumbarton has done remarkably well in the last six years.

Perhaps it's been too much of a good thing and that expectations are from the support unjustifiably high.

Perhaps, for now, Dumbarton are at the level they should be at given the clear problems the club is facing.

A new manager may have a magic wand, or more likely a magic sponge,  He may not. It's a gamble. I just think, from the outside looking in that there is a set of circumstances that are mitigating and as you say, it's about opinions.

All you want is a manager who can set up a team up in a way that plays to their strengths and a team that burst their chops off for each other and actually move about a pitch.

We have none of that.  Aitken needs to leave pronto.

[DumbartonTheSons]

Dining out on past glories. Isn't that what happens when supporting a lower league club?  I'm genuinely at a loss what it is you expect. Dumbarton has done remarkably well in the last six years.
Perhaps it's been too much of a good thing and that expectations are from the support unjustifiably high.
Perhaps, for now, Dumbarton are at the level they should be at given the clear problems the club is facing.
A new manager may have a magic wand, or more likely a magic sponge,  He may not. It's a gamble. I just think, from the outside looking in that there is a set of circumstances that are mitigating and as you say, it's about opinions.

All you want is a manager who can set up a team up in a way that plays to their strengths and a team that burst their chops off for each other and actually move about a pitch.
We have none of that.  Aitken needs to leave pronto.

Fans dine out on past glories, of course. But a manager can't rest on them nor can they be used in his favour for this long.

There are mitigating circumstances with regards to injuries, yes, but given how we've been playing, the way the players look unfit, uninterested (yes, I know that's partly their responsibility as individuals) and the way the team look like little lost boys week in, week out, I just don't see a way back with Aitken in charge.

And I can't speak for others, but for me, Thommo90 above sums up my feelings about what I'd expect as a fan.

[albundy]

17 hours ago, Homer Sandoval said:

With all the respect in the world, I would suggest that Stevie Aitken knows the dynamic of a dressing room and how to set a team up better than you.

So would Alan Adamson, Ian Murray, Jack Ross, Jim Duffy, Barry Robson, Jose Mouhrino, Jim Fallon and Paul Martin. What's your point?

17 hours ago, Homer Sandoval said:

Managed in a competent way? Keeping the club you support in the SPFL Championship for two years plus achieving an appearance in a cup final is as good as it gets for Dumbarton.That’s a degree of competence right there.

Sticky period right now. It happens.

Playing in the Championship was great and Aitken did well to turn things around in the first and second seasons post Christmas, but that era has come to an end and I  wouldn't place accountability on the manager for failing to keep us punching above our weight, however the approach and mentality in the Alloa plays offs and the cup final was ironically among the worst if not the worst cases of shitebaggery I have seen.

Living in the now , the barometer of success will be our league position and we are on a downwards spiral (fact) and that's been happening way too long to be a temporary blip.