Referees

[The_Judge]

4 hours ago, .Stuart. said:

It’s utterly mental the amount of abuse the stand-side linesman takes from fans at Meadow Park for incidents that not only happen in the other half but in the opposite side of the pitch.

The linesman on Saturday was subject to a lot of abuse due to the referee making a lot of incorrect decisions.

 

4 hours ago, griffiti on the wall said:

Agreed Stuart and fans are literally just yards from him and he gets slaughtered most weeks but the referee is not helping him if he gets told pre match not to get involved.

Yup and imagine how much that abuse would ratchet up if they actually overruled the ref for an important decision e.g. a penalty kick.  

[griffiti on the wall]

Yup and imagine how much that abuse would ratchet up if they actually overruled the ref for an important decision e.g. a penalty kick.  

Surely it would be more beneficial if he over ruled the ref and it was the correct decision

[The_Judge]

5 minutes ago, griffiti on the wall said:

12 minutes ago, The_Judge said:

Yup and imagine how much that abuse would ratchet up if they actually overruled the ref for an important decision e.g. a penalty kick.  

Surely it would be more beneficial if he over ruled the ref and it was the correct decision

Ha Ha.....if he/she is stood in front of opposition fans then good luck convincing them of that

[Brig O'Lea]

On 9/16/2018 at 22:12, santheman said:

I've watched a referee in two consecutive games recently.

First game 1 booking for a bad tackle, game flowed and you hardly noticed he was on the park always talking to the players, even laughed at one point!!

Second game 9 bookings 2 red cards, every hard tackle a yellow every bit of back chat a yellow including one of the reds. Game held up at every opportunity.

The difference

Referee Supervisor was at the 2nd game

I make a point now of checking if there's a referee supervisor appointed so the management team can warn the players in advance.  That's how bad the refs are when watched.  Don't know why the referee supervisors can't just turn up unannounced?

[santheman]

8 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

8 hours ago, griffiti on the wall said:

I had said something similar before the all the nonsense on here broke out .
I think good refs can manage a game and let it flow but obviously I have never sat with a referees supervisor so don't know if they get marked down for that .
I remember certain games utd v arsenal even some Celtic v rangers games where the players would be obviously hyped up and the ref would keep things on a lid for the 1st 10-15 mins then the football would break out and there was no need for a flurry of early bookings to me that was just great man management of the game .
Not every tackle is a booking and not every booking is a red card .
On the issue of player discipline your absolutely spot on I had a go at our own keeper for his sending off on Saturday for calling the linesman a dick which was totally unacceptable and just plain stupid .
Players squealing like little girls after every tackle is embarrassing and the only folk that can stop that is the club's themselves.
On a side issue and one that cracks me up does the referee ask the linesman for assistance before the game or does he say leave the decisions to me as Imo most of them do nothing and indeed don't help the referee as he can't see every thing yet a linesman will see something yet would interact with the referee

I can only go on my experience but I knew a few Grade 1 referees who would basically tell their linesman they are there for corners and throw ins only, no idea if it's still the case but for me assistant refs must see things that they aren't bringing to the attention of the ref. Whether it's because they are hiding or because that attitude still persists I have no way of knowing.

Reminds me of the time a few years ago when I overhead the famous (or should that be the infamous) Willie Collum saying exactly that to his linesmen in the dressing room before a Larkhall game.

Don't think he's changed much since then either,  an arrogant wee p***k of a man

[froggie]

1 hour ago, The_Judge said:

 

Yup and imagine how much that abuse would ratchet up if they actually overruled the ref for an important decision e.g. a penalty kick.  

They wouldn't be over ruling the ref though, would they? They would just be giving their opinion from different ( possibly better) viewpoint. The ref has the final say, no matter how much or little he uses those running the line, but if he trusts those assisting him, why wouldn't he big enough to admit others have a better chance of giving the right call , by having a better view? If the referee's not sure that the linesman is any better placed to judge. he goes with his own instinct.

[griffiti on the wall]

East Kilbride assistant manager handed a whooping 12 games on top of an already 6 game ban for abusive behaviour towards officials
Maybe that's the only way that such behaviour will stop

[Northboy]

On ‎18‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 09:12, griffiti on the wall said:

On a side issue and one that cracks me up does the referee ask the linesman for assistance before the game or does he say leave the decisions to me as Imo most of them do nothing and indeed don't help the referee as he can't see every thing yet a linesman will see something yet would interact with the referee

A subject which I've often thought about. My instinct is that at the higher levels the referee will have the benefit of an equally experienced linesman and is likely to be happier to take his signals and decisions which is probably something that the referee observer is looking for. I'm not entirely sure but I think the higher level officials quite often work within the same referee/linesmen teams which should build their trust in each other. At lower levels, Juniors for example, the referee usually look more experienced than the linesmen who I suspect can be just minor grade referees filling in or guys who don't really have the bottle to jo a job in the middle. In such cases I suspect it is the case that the referee says 'leave the big decisions to me'. I'm not saying it's correct but I can understand why a referee would say this to avoid being dropped in it by a mad call from the line.

[griffiti on the wall]

A subject which I've often thought about. My instinct is that at the higher levels the referee will have the benefit of an equally experienced linesman and is likely to be happier to take his signals and decisions which is probably something that the referee observer is looking for. I'm not entirely sure but I think the higher level officials quite often work within the same referee/linesmen teams which should build their trust in each other. At lower levels, Juniors for example, the referee usually look more experienced than the linesmen who I suspect can be just minor grade referees filling in or guys who don't really have the bottle to jo a job in the middle. In such cases I suspect it is the case that the referee says 'leave the big decisions to me'. I'm not saying it's correct but I can understand why a referee would say this to avoid being dropped in it by a mad call from the line.

That's a right good point fella
So maybe a ref should be given the same 2 linesman for a set period so they get to form an understanding rather than all 3 officials being randomly drawn

[blue manalishi]

15 minutes ago, Northboy said:

A subject which I've often thought about. My instinct is that at the higher levels the referee will have the benefit of an equally experienced linesman and is likely to be happier to take his signals and decisions which is probably something that the referee observer is looking for. I'm not entirely sure but I think the higher level officials quite often work within the same referee/linesmen teams which should build their trust in each other. At lower levels, Juniors for example, the referee usually look more experienced than the linesmen who I suspect can be just minor grade referees filling in or guys who don't really have the bottle to jo a job in the middle. In such cases I suspect it is the case that the referee says 'leave the big decisions to me'. I'm not saying it's correct but I can understand why a referee would say this to avoid being dropped in it by a mad call from the line.

A referee has the power to over rule his linesman , so he can't or should'nt be 'dropped in it by a mad call from the line'.

[froggie]

4 hours ago, griffiti on the wall said:

That's a right good point fella
So maybe a ref should be given the same 2 linesman for a set period so they get to form an understanding rather than all 3 officials being randomly drawn

I reckon, in a perfect world, teams of officials would be a benefit. There may be reasons this isn't feasible, however, which it would need someone in the know to expand on. ( It wouldn't stop the popular side from grumbling however, just give them a trio to be angry towards, as opposed to just one, should they feel they've been 'wronged' in the past)

[energyzone]

At senior level officials are speaking to each other constantly over the mic so they avoid the confusion and uncertainty that can exist at lower levels where officials have to rely on signals and face to face conversations.