Referees

[Ardenvohr6]

I’ve been watching junior football for a good few years and have observed some pretty disastrous individuals progress to the higher echelons of the SPFL and be the subject of some rather critical observations of their performances.

Football being football, everyone moans about the refs and we do notice the shortage of officials. But no-one steps forward to suggest solutions.

Here’s mine.

Let’s stop retiring referees when they reach the statutory age, is it 45?

If they can maintain a suitable level of fitness, allow them to stay on. In the meantime, allow those following on to spend more time in the lower leagues to gain more experience and allow observers more scope to criticise, rather than be under pressure to fill the vacancies that occur due to the early retrial age.

[onemanwolfpack]

3 minutes ago, Ardenvohr6 said:

 

I’ve been watching junior football for a good few years and have observed some pretty disastrous individuals progress to the higher echelons of the SPFL and be the subject of some rather critical observations of their performances.

Football being football, everyone moans about the refs and we do notice the shortage of officials. But no-one steps forward to suggest solutions.

Here’s mine.

Let’s stop retiring referees when they reach the statutory age, is it 45?

If they can maintain a suitable level of fitness, allow them to stay on. In the meantime, allow those following on to spend more time in the lower leagues to gain more experience and allow observers more scope to criticise, rather than be under pressure to fill the vacancies that occur due to the early retrial age.

 

Never mind retiring them at 45. Some of them are just absolutely horrendous whatever age they are. Ref at Troon v Peasy today disallowed a perfectly good peasy goal for a foul on the goalie when there was no one anywhere near him. Then in the last minute didn't give a penalty because the player didn't go down under a challenge, but next time the ball went into the box gave a very soft penalty.  Not that I'm complaining cause peasy got a much needed and deserved win in the end up. 

[albertsquare]

Today at Talbot  v Kilwinning game I actually witnessed a ref have a wall 10 yards from the ball at a free kick - twice. Unbelevable it just didn't look correct

[Strathman]

There were no linesmen at the Colony Park Kirrie Thistle Junior Cup Tie today. Club officials took the flags.

Is that usual?

 

 

[Krfc 10]

Refs don't retire at 45 anymore

[Black Pennel]

2 hours ago, Strathman said:

There were no linesmen at the Colony Park Kirrie Thistle Junior Cup Tie today. Club officials took the flags.

Is that usual?

 

 

Was the referee Tom Jones ?

[lookinforgoals]

these refs that are shite in the juniors are making their way to the top of Scottish football in 1-2 years. They are terrible,granted,but who else is going to do the job?

[patriot1]

3 hours ago, lookinforgoals said:

these refs that are shite in the juniors are making their way to the top of Scottish football in 1-2 years. They are terrible,granted,but who else is going to do the job?

It seems you are right. I normally hate slagging refs but one of the worst in the East Region a few years ago, Jordan  Stokoe was the assistant who disallowed Kris Doolan's ghost goal at Firhill the other week.

 

[Seaside Sam]

This reminds me of the old joke! Two guys were watching there boys at a game. One guy asked the other on who is son was so that he could criticise them! The other guy said why do you want to do that?  Well you have been criticising my son all day. He said which one is that ? The refreree!

We were speaking about this yesterday,, before we went to the game we were watching the Spurs v Liverpool game, The first goal was given by technology. Other incidents  we disagreed between us and the ref  about some of the decisions.

Low and behold at the game we had the same disagreements, which was not helped by players rolling about if they had been shot, and the management teams trying to influence the refs decision!

Yes they make mistakes , they are human and without them there would be no game. I have only been ref at a friendly game as a favour and that was a nightmare. It would be good if some of the critics , if they think it is that bad get involved!

[Bellshilljunior]

As someone who has passed the referee's exam and been in their shoes, it's hard not to be critical every saturday as i know how hard a job it is to referee BUT the modern ref's do themselves no favours with attitude, no all, but most. Yesterday we saw our sub keeper sent off for talking to one of the coaches calling the referee an idiot who heard the remark and sent the player off for questioning his sporting integrity. As always during the game, inconsistancy in decision making was prevelant throughout the 96 minutes. 

They have to try to be approachable to discussion during the game, the best refs were able to have a quiet word on the way past but most of today's referees are unapproachable, even for club captain to ask a question.

[not man of the match]

There were no linesmen at the Colony Park Kirrie Thistle Junior Cup Tie today. Club officials took the flags.
Is that usual?
 
 

Happens all over the country does it not?

[glensmad]

There were no linesmen at the Colony Park Kirrie Thistle Junior Cup Tie today. Club officials took the flags.
Is that usual?
 
 

It's far from unusual in the early rounds of the Scottish Junior Cup.

[Shanner]

I actually find the general  standard a lot better than 10 or 15 years ago.  Of course once in a while the ref has a complete 'mare but that's true of any level. 

We also have an increasing number of female officials these days which should increase the numbers. 

[Strathman]

1 hour ago, glensmad said:

10 hours ago, Strathman said:

There were no linesmen at the Colony Park Kirrie Thistle Junior Cup Tie today. Club officials took the flags.
Is that usual?
 
 

It's far from unusual in the early rounds of the Scottish Junior Cup.

Only tie of the round so I doubt numbers was an issue. Is there a rule for example that says linesman are required from the last 16 onwards?

[garrellburn]

7 minutes ago, Strathman said:

Only tie of the round so I doubt numbers was an issue. Is there a rule for example that says linesman are required from the last 16 onwards?

Just because it was the only tie makes little or no difference, all the clubs who might otherwise have had cup ties had league games instead and they need refs sas well!

[TugW]

14 hours ago, Ardenvohr6 said:

 

I’ve been watching junior football for a good few years and have observed some pretty disastrous individuals progress to the higher echelons of the SPFL and be the subject of some rather critical observations of their performances.

Football being football, everyone moans about the refs and we do notice the shortage of officials. But no-one steps forward to suggest solutions.

Here’s mine.

Let’s stop retiring referees when they reach the statutory age, is it 45?

If they can maintain a suitable level of fitness, allow them to stay on. In the meantime, allow those following on to spend more time in the lower leagues to gain more experience and allow observers more scope to criticise, rather than be under pressure to fill the vacancies that occur due to the early retrial age.

 

Retire at age 45 was abolished years ago. 

 

Keep up with the times. 

[Guest Moomintroll]

As someone who has passed the referee's exam and been in their shoes, it's hard not to be critical every saturday as i know how hard a job it is to referee BUT the modern ref's do themselves no favours with attitude, no all, but most. Yesterday we saw our sub keeper sent off for talking to one of the coaches calling the referee an idiot who heard the remark and sent the player off for questioning his sporting integrity. As always during the game, inconsistancy in decision making was prevelant throughout the 96 minutes. 
They have to try to be approachable to discussion during the game, the best refs were able to have a quiet word on the way past but most of today's referees are unapproachable, even for club captain to ask a question.

I agree with what you are saying and i have been there myself but there are two main issues that will eventually lead the game into a serious crisis. The first is the attitude of players, coaches and spectators, constant abuse and aggression over every decision no matter how obvious it is. I found with some teams that even when you do try and have a word they thought that was an invitation to give me more aggro, which i usually just responded to with a reply along the lines of well we're never going to agree here rather than dish out the yellow and red cards that the situation actually demanded. Secondly, the attitude of the association towards promotion which values certain criteria above others in terms of full time job role etc which will never be conducive to, in the majority of referees, being able to treat people as equals and communicating with them effectively in a heated situation. If you spend all day in a role where your subordinates will not question you then you will usually lose your shit when it happens in what is a stressful situation and revert to an arrogant, I'm the boss here, stance. I know this reponse is tl;dr but there is a very real threat that in the medium term that the entrenched attitudes will result in such a shortage that it will end in not enough refs being available at grade 4 and 5 level to cover games even at a time when the amateur game is in crisis with teams dropping out all over the place.

[glensmad]

Only tie of the round so I doubt numbers was an issue. Is there a rule for example that says linesman are required from the last 16 onwards?

I believe there used to be a rule that states linesman from the 4th round onwards, whether that is still the case I don't know.

[froggie]

3 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

6 hours ago, Bellshilljunior said:

As someone who has passed the referee's exam and been in their shoes, it's hard not to be critical every saturday as i know how hard a job it is to referee BUT the modern ref's do themselves no favours with attitude, no all, but most. Yesterday we saw our sub keeper sent off for talking to one of the coaches calling the referee an idiot who heard the remark and sent the player off for questioning his sporting integrity. As always during the game, inconsistancy in decision making was prevelant throughout the 96 minutes. 
They have to try to be approachable to discussion during the game, the best refs were able to have a quiet word on the way past but most of today's referees are unapproachable, even for club captain to ask a question.

I agree with what you are saying and i have been there myself but there are two main issues that will eventually lead the game into a serious crisis. The first is the attitude of players, coaches and spectators, constant abuse and aggression over every decision no matter how obvious it is. I found with some teams that even when you do try and have a word they thought that was an invitation to give me more aggro, which i usually just responded to with a reply along the lines of well we're never going to agree here rather than dish out the yellow and red cards that the situation actually demanded. Secondly, the attitude of the association towards promotion which values certain criteria above others in terms of full time job role etc which will never be conducive to, in the majority of referees, being able to treat people as equals and communicating with them effectively in a heated situation. If you spend all day in a role where your subordinates will not question you then you will usually lose your shit when it happens in what is a stressful situation and revert to an arrogant, I'm the boss here, stance. I know this reponse is tl;dr but there is a very real threat that in the medium term that the entrenched attitudes will result in such a shortage that it will end in not enough refs being available at grade 4 and 5 level to cover games even at a time when the amateur game is in crisis with teams dropping out all over the place.

I have never refereed at any level, or played anything other than Sunday league beer belly level, I am, however a paying customer of the product that is Junior football. To me, unless referees are allowed to use their own judgement, rather than be praised/ downgraded by an observer's application of rigid criteria, you will always end up with a particular 'personality' in  officials that progress. I am happy for identical incidents to have different outcomes depending on their context within the game, but if that is seen as a failure by those whose job it is to see if people in charge of the rules follow the rules it will never happen.

If a referee uses judgement and keeps his cards in his pocket, believing words may work better in diffusing a situation, I'm happy with that, but if all that provokes is a frown and frantic scribbling from a man in a sheepskin, there is no incentive to use common sense, quite the opposite in fact.. Football where every tackle that isn't a clean take of the ball is a booking isn't my thing and never will be and applying the rules as if every player is of international class in terms of tackling ability and timing isn't either.

[santheman]

I've watched a referee in two consecutive games recently.

First game 1 booking for a bad tackle, game flowed and you hardly noticed he was on the park always talking to the players, even laughed at one point!!

Second game 9 bookings 2 red cards, every hard tackle a yellow every bit of back chat a yellow including one of the reds. Game held up at every opportunity.

The difference

Referee Supervisor was at the 2nd game