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      Pie and Bovril Nostalgia Mobile Phone Cases!   12/09/18

      We are delighted to have partnered up with Nostalgia Cases to offer a huge range of fantastic Scottish Football phone cases to our visitors. These high quality cases are available in a range of retro and up to date designs and there variations available for all Premiership, Championship and League 1 clubs as well as four of the League 2 teams. Within each club there are a range of choices. You'll find it difficult to choose! This is an Edinburgh based start-up, and they also provide a custom design service so if there is a kit you don't see that you'd love for your phone you can get in touch with them and they'll add it to their range. Naturally there is a HUGE support for all the major phone manufacturers and models and what's more delivery in the UK is completely FREE. What's even better is that Pie and Bovril users can get 10% off their order using the coupon code PIEANDBOV Take a look and browse the full range for your favourite club by clicking through to the website below. https://bit.ly/2M5laZs
Jimmy Gentles

QP moving to lesser hampden good for junior clubs?

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As long as they play in League One or Two they only need to meet entry level ground criteria, though their floodlights must be bronze (min 300 lux). Cover being the obvious thing to sort looking at this 2017 photo.
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I know there have been a few senior grounds in the past where supporters could try and watch the match outside the ground (like the bridge above the away end at Kilbowie which often hosted a few onlookers). Seems Lesser Hampden could have the same problem, without some higher walls being built around it.

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Ach,...eff aff...I thought you were in favour of some sort of glorious pyramid where all clubs would find their own level ?

Regardless of whether they were full time, part time, semi-pro, or amateur...I thought your idea was that it was all just fitba ?

Or are Bankies fans now looking down on Queens Park ?

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Ach,...eff aff...I thought you were in favour of some sort of glorious pyramid where all clubs would find their own level ?
Regardless of whether they were full time, part time, semi-pro, or amateur...I thought your idea was that it was all just fitba ?
Or are Bankies fans now looking down on Queens Park ?

Calm down dear, its widely documented Queens Park pay a lot of expenses, which is fine, I think they are a cracking club, just don’t agree that they are Amateur. So no if anything i’m envious of queens park and not looking down on them.

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On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 21:47, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


Dont they claim to be Amateur but guys get ‘expenses’?

I did know a fella who played for Queens and his travelling expenses were "rounded up" but was still not what you would call anything close to a wage.

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I do wonder how they get around the Professionals on their books though - you can't play for nothing with Professional status at an SPFL club. Non-contract registrations apply in the wider non-league but not there. And if you're Professional in SPFL does minimum wage apply? Just musings, no agenda.

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15 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

I do wonder how they get around the Professionals on their books though - you can't play for nothing with Professional status at an SPFL club. Non-contract registrations apply in the wider non-league but not there. And if you're Professional in SPFL does minimum wage apply? Just musings, no agenda.

I’d genuinely like to know what clubs are doing now regarding the minimum wage. Whitehill stopped paying wages in season 17-18 because of this, and started registering everybody as non-contract. Somebody told me the minimum wage would be about £3.5k per year per player, by the time you gave them travelling twice a week to training plus matchdays, bearing in mind in the LL you could be leaving at 10am and home about 8pm. So with 20 players that’s £70k/year. I’d imagine only a handful of non-League clubs could afford that, so the rest are left paying expenses. But I was also told that around £700 - £800 is a typical amount for expenses before HMRC gets interested, so you won’t get quality players for that. Presumably a club has to be a test case sooner or later. Obviously there’s a link between this and Whitehill sliding to the bottom of the LL.

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It'll no be long afore we get the stories of "Third Lanark will return to pro fitba and share Lesser Hampden" pish. 

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I’d genuinely like to know what clubs are doing now regarding the minimum wage. Whitehill stopped paying wages in season 17-18 because of this, and started registering everybody as non-contract. Somebody told me the minimum wage would be about £3.5k per year per player, by the time you gave them travelling twice a week to training plus matchdays, bearing in mind in the LL you could be leaving at 10am and home about 8pm. So with 20 players that’s £70k/year. I’d imagine only a handful of non-League clubs could afford that, so the rest are left paying expenses. But I was also told that around £700 - £800 is a typical amount for expenses before HMRC gets interested, so you won’t get quality players for that. Presumably a club has to be a test case sooner or later. Obviously there’s a link between this and Whitehill sliding to the bottom of the LL.


Of course you don't need 20 players being payed, you can just pay some.

Also traveling expenses can be payed to amateur players but I don't think you'll be able to pay expenses for training for anyone being payed a wage as well. And any travel time for training(at a minimum, probably home games and possibly some local away games) won't be calculated for minimum wage.

That doesn't mean minimum wage isn't a big problem for clubs, but there are ways that clubs can spend money on players legally, it probably takes a fair bit more admin tho.

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1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

I don't think you'll be able to pay expenses for training for anyone being payed a wage as well. And any travel time for training(at a minimum, probably home games and possibly some local away games) won't be calculated for minimum wage.

 

I probably worded it badly. I mean the time they spend rather than the expenses. Our secretary, before he retired, reckoned travelling time would count. But anyway- they're either signed as pros (wages) or as non-contract (expenses only). What I'm really asking for, is examples of what clubs can now do to pay players say £2k a year. I can't see any legal way of doing it.

Edited by The Mantis

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I probably worded it badly. I mean the time they spend rather than the expenses. Our secretary, before he retired, reckoned travelling time would count. But anyway- they're either signed as pros (wages) or as non-contract (expenses only). What I'm really asking for, is examples of what clubs can now do to pay players say £2k a year. I can't see any legal way of doing it.

 

Travel time certainly applies in places, if my employer needs me to travel to the borders I get my travel time, I don't get travel time to go to the office.

 

I would expect training and probably home games to not have travel time payed, unless your a club that train notably away from your stadium. All away travel time would require minimum wage.

 

There is an dead-zone where it's difficult,

 

I guess the only option would be providing a payed contract for a limited period of the season and hope they sign a amateur form afterwards (and it does have to be hope, any implication that volunteer work is required in order to get given payed work would quickly get pulled up).

 

We could eventually find ourselves in a scenario where the players who are currently of the level where they receive say £2k a year wage playing will end up jumping between amateur contracts and 5-6 month payed deals, probably involving moving clubs regularly, chasing the limited number of payed contracts.

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Why do we still have "amateur" and "professional" football in 2018? Even tennis and cricket abolished the distinction decades ago.

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8 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

Travel time certainly applies in places, if my employer needs me to travel to the borders I get my travel time, I don't get travel time to go to the office.

 

I would expect training and probably home games to not have travel time payed, unless your a club that train notably away from your stadium. All away travel time would require minimum wage.

 

There is an dead-zone where it's difficult,

 

I guess the only option would be providing a payed contract for a limited period of the season and hope they sign a amateur form afterwards (and it does have to be hope, any implication that volunteer work is required in order to get given payed work would quickly get pulled up).

 

We could eventually find ourselves in a scenario where the players who are currently of the level where they receive say £2k a year wage playing will end up jumping between amateur contracts and 5-6 month payed deals, probably involving moving clubs regularly, chasing the limited number of payed contracts.

Don't mean to massively split hairs but a player in Scotland cannot jump between Professional and Amateur deals as Amateur is a status - outwith SPFL they sign as Non Contract Professionals if they are to receive 'expenses only' (within SPFL they can only sign as Pro or Amateur, the latter depending on existing SFA status).

Edited by cmontheloknow

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Don't mean to massively split hairs but a player in Scotland cannot jump between Professional and Amateur deals as Amateur is a status - outwith SPFL they sign as Non Contract Professionals if they are to receive 'expenses only' (within SPFL they can only sign as Pro or Amateur, the latter depending on existing SFA status).
Only because we have an archaic registration system.
Why do we still have "amateur" and "professional" football in 2018? Even tennis and cricket abolished the distinction decades ago.

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