Scotland v Belgium (07/09/18)

[Bairnardo]

Agree with those saying there were no positives lastnight.

If I were to strive for some I would focus on the two Ryans. Fraser has hopefully shown that he is a very good player, enough that only a dribbly moron would continue to peg him back to basically RB. Jack has hopefully shown that despite the mewlings of the **** he is not and never will be good enough.

Thats basically it. We are never beating a team like that but we should be able to offer enough to avoid a second gear, exhibition style hounding. We were a plaything lastnight and it was sad.

One of the things I liked that Belgium did lastnight was that they pushed a line on three of their defenders right into our half and left Kompany 20 yards behind them. That squeezed us right back as Griffiths was buzzing about the 3 whilst Kompany meant they always had an option. It was simple and very effective. McLeish would never try something like that though.

[Doonhamer doon south]

My assessment of last night was rather dire. Belgians were essentially gifted 3 goals through a lack of concentration - 2 of which from senior players. The game clearly showed that Scotland are not at the top table and the ineptness of the performance gives me the fear for the nation league. We are in league C and if we finish bottom of our mini group we are with the real diddies. There is every chance of this as equal as there is every chance of topping the group. Albania and Israel might not be footballing giants but then neither are we anymore. 

 

Eck hasn't quite lost my vote of favour but he certainly needs to get 3 points on Monday. And a better performance from the team. 

[pleslie99]

Here's my take on the game last night and some of the issues we have as a footballing nation.

1. Why the f**k are we taking friendlies against teams such as Belgium? Who at the SFA thought that was a good idea? We should be playing friendlies against teams at our level, rep Ireland, Finland, Norway etc. Get the boys a chance to show what they can do. What did we learn from last night? That 11 players can watch Belgium play with us? Someone at the SFA took and continues to take these games to mingle amongst the big boys of European football while our football suffers badly.

2. Charley mulgrew. What has he got on Scotland managers that warrants him a game? I know we are not blessed with CBs but if rather have a young 17yo than that dumpling. He was at fault for 2 of the goals last night.

3. Arguably our 2 best players are LBs. That's frustrating, however why are we trying to shoehorn them both into the team? Tierney is not a CB, he does a good job but he is nowhere near as effective and as dangerous. If we can only play 1 then so be it!

4. We have no shape and no tactics, I'm all for guys wanting the ball and to try and play, but everyone wants to be man city these days. Look at the 1st goal. McGinn asks for the ball which, ok, he's confident and thinks he is ok, Gordon should look up and see dembele is waiting to pounce. Also the fact Griffiths is 40yds from our own goal and he highest player should be ringing alarm bells. If McGinn does collect it cleanly where does he go? He has no out ball what so ever. Gordon has to see that and ignore the McGinn option and push the team up the field.

The SFA is a joke from top to bottom and unless it changes from the very very top then we are destined for another 20 years in the international wilderness.

[No_Problemo]

Here's my take on the game last night and some of the issues we have as a footballing nation.

1. Why the f**k are we taking friendlies against teams such as Belgium? Who at the SFA thought that was a good idea? We should be playing friendlies against teams at our level, rep Ireland, Finland, Norway etc. Get the boys a chance to show what they can do. What did we learn from last night? That 11 players can watch Belgium play with us? Someone at the SFA took and continues to take these games to mingle amongst the big boys of European football while our football suffers badly.

2. Charley mulgrew. What has he got on Scotland managers that warrants him a game? I know we are not blessed with CBs but if rather have a young 17yo than that dumpling. He was at fault for 2 of the goals last night.

3. Arguably our 2 best players are LBs. That's frustrating, however why are we trying to shoehorn them both into the team? Tierney is not a CB, he does a good job but he is nowhere near as effective and as dangerous. If we can only play 1 then so be it!

4. We have no shape and no tactics, I'm all for guys wanting the ball and to try and play, but everyone wants to be man city these days. Look at the 1st goal. McGinn asks for the ball which, ok, he's confident and thinks he is ok, Gordon should look up and see dembele is waiting to pounce. Also the fact Griffiths is 40yds from our own goal and he highest player should be ringing alarm bells. If McGinn does collect it cleanly where does he go? He has no out ball what so ever. Gordon has to see that and ignore the McGinn option and push the team up the field.

The SFA is a joke from top to bottom and unless it changes from the very very top then we are destined for another 20 years in the international wilderness.

So you don’t want Mulgrew at CB or Tierney - who might be this random 17 year old you think should play that’s better? There weren’t any other options due to injuries last night - I would still want Tierney and Robertson in the same team but just in a 4-4-1-1.

[Mon_The_Fife]

I heard on Sportsound something along the lines of Belgium being ranked 71st in the world around a decade ago and now look where they are.

We are so far behind it’s embarrassing and quite sad really.

Something is fundamentally wrong with our grassroots and coaching if we can’t produce quality players. I can’t even remember a youth team player coming through at East Fife and we are the level where 16/17 years old should be emerging.

[pandarilla]

So you don’t want Mulgrew at CB or Tierney - who might be this random 17 year old you think should play that’s better? There weren’t any other options due to injuries last night - I would still want Tierney and Robertson in the same team but just in a 4-4-1-1.

I'd like to see Tierney LB and Robertson LM.

Gareth bale started as a LB so let's try something more positive with Robertson.

f**k knows who our centre halves will be though. Maybe we can invent a new formation where we don't play with any?

[pandarilla]

Nah , a world class keeper would never roll a ball out into that kind of dangerous area .. Mcginn  never had a chance to think , and the player was on him .. Most keepers would have kept the ball and encouraged some sort of forward hoof to relieve the pressure..

You can't seriously be suggesting mcginn was not to blame for that goal? The ball out to him was stupid and dangerous but he was so weak it's unreal.

Hopefully he'll learn from it, but that was his fault.

[ExiledSaint]

22 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

Here's my take on the game last night and some of the issues we have as a footballing nation.

1. Why the f**k are we taking friendlies against teams such as Belgium? Who at the SFA thought that was a good idea? We should be playing friendlies against teams at our level, rep Ireland, Finland, Norway etc. Get the boys a chance to show what they can do. What did we learn from last night? That 11 players can watch Belgium play with us? Someone at the SFA took and continues to take these games to mingle amongst the big boys of European football while our football suffers badly.
 

If only we were at the same level as Finland and Norway.

It breaks my heart a wee bit watching the embarrasment we have become and honestly I cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel. 

Agree with the points about Mulgrew, the guy is dire and has been for a while. 

It is ironic that our 2 best players by a mile both play the same position but there is a way to get them both in the team and still get the best out of them, but that'll take a better manager than McLeish.

There is no way he should have got the job! The SFA have made lots of crappy decisions over the years but appointing him is one if the worst. He did well in his first spell but he showed no loyalty and the game has moved on a lot since then and he looks like a lost wee boy. It seemed as though the SFA had been utterly convinced they were going to get O'Neill (no way he'd have lost 4 out 5) and when he KB'd them they panicked and made the worst possible choice. 

[Bairnardo]

Watching Scotland lastnight is like a really exaggerated example, almost comically so, of what people mean when they talk about the way football is playing changing. The most common example of which being the "high press" which is now a staple of modern top level football.

We on the other hand, simply attempt to defend against a superior team by sitting back. Parking the bus doesnt really work anymore. Teams like Belgium have players who can control the ball and pass it well from front to back. It was really, really noticable lastnight. Their defenders were controlling the ball out of the air, they were finding their man even with clearing balls and they were able to one-touch their way round any Scotland player who tried to press them. In contrast, our clearing balls were aimless hoofs out the park or straight up the park where Griffiths had to compete with Kompany or Vertongen to win it inside our own half.

We are miles away from that. Miles.

[Diamonds are Forever]

7 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

4. We have no shape and no tactics, I'm all for guys wanting the ball and to try and play, but everyone wants to be man city these days. Look at the 1st goal. McGinn asks for the ball which, ok, he's confident and thinks he is ok, Gordon should look up and see dembele is waiting to pounce. Also the fact Griffiths is 40yds from our own goal and he highest player should be ringing alarm bells. If McGinn does collect it cleanly where does he go? He has no out ball what so ever. Gordon has to see that and ignore the McGinn option and push the team up the field.
 

 

If you want an insight into the problem with the Scottish mentality it's this. I've read countless times that the first goal was Gordon's fault for giving McGinn the ball. Sorry, what?! He asked for the ball, the ball was passed into his feet and he lacked the basic technique, body positioning and awareness to take the ball in and protect it/lay it off. Instead of criticising that, we seem to want to excuse his lack of ability by blaming someone else for having the temerity to expect our midfielder to be comfortable at taking the ball. Why are we making excuses for this? Imagine the roles were reversed last  night, not a chance Belgium would be blaming Courtois for passing the ball into midfield. It would be seen as Dembele's mistake - 100%. I'm not advocating playing triangles in our own penalty box, and I actually think we need to be more direct, but regardless how we play there should be a basic expectation that players can control a ball, but it's as if we don't want to face up to the fact that our players can't do that so instead blame the player who exposes it.

[accies1874]

Was listening to Robertson's podcast the other day and he was saying that he doesn't fancy playing LM. He much prefers having space to run into, or using the left-winger to play a 1-2 with, as opposed to beating a RB. One of Robertson's best games for Scotland (Lithuania at home last campaign) came from Ritchie doing really well to create space for him. 

If we play a back four, I'd rather Robertson at left-back and McGregor ahead of him. 

[Guest bernardblack]

You can't seriously be suggesting mcginn was not to blame for that goal? The ball out to him was stupid and dangerous but he was so weak it's unreal.

Hopefully he'll learn from it, but that was his fault.

Super John could’ve given that straight back to Gordon first time.

Mulgrew has done well for us. But surely it’s time to give someone else a crack who will be involved in the next campaign?

[Savage Henry]

1 hour ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

My assessment of last night was rather dire. Belgians were essentially gifted 3 goals through a lack of concentration - 2 of which from senior players. The game clearly showed that Scotland are not at the top table and the ineptness of the performance gives me the fear for the nation league. We are in league C and if we finish bottom of our mini group we are with the real diddies. There is every chance of this as equal as there is every chance of topping the group. Albania and Israel might not be footballing giants but then neither are we anymore. 

 

Eck hasn't quite lost my vote of favour but he certainly needs to get 3 points on Monday. And a better performance from the team. 

I think if we somehow fail to get through this European Nations group, there are real questions to be asked about McLeish, if there aren't already.  I get the argument that you can't sack the manager every time the team goes through a bad run, but equally there's an argument to be made that McLeish should never have been appointed in the first place. 

[pandarilla]

As much as some folk hate to admit it, Strachan was our best option for the next few years.

I fully understand the failed campaigns argument but he had our team playing well and playing with confidence. On top of that there was no realistic option that was likely to improve things - and so somehow we end up with fucking McLeish

[Doonhamer doon south]

3 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

I think if we somehow fail to get through this European Nations group, there are real questions to be asked about McLeish, if there aren't already.  I get the argument that you can't sack the manager every time the team goes through a bad run, but equally there's an argument to be made that McLeish should never have been appointed in the first place. 

I cant mind who the other candidates were? So far he has had shit games and shit tours. Albania and Israel is where it gets real. I would be open to change though before the euro qualifiers.

[Aufc]

Shite result yes. But scotland fans are the kings of over reacting. Belgium are far above our level. Should we have played them? Probably not. However, we did and we got pumped. I would not really read into the game too much. Monday is where we should be judging McLeish.

Clearly we are trying to improve our grass roots football but it takes time. There are certainly some potentials for the future going by the under 21s latest performances.

It is so funny seeing the tartan army losing their shit over getting pumped against one of the best teams in the world

[Bairnardo]

Shite result yes. But scotland fans are the kings of over reacting. Belgium are far above our level. Should we have played them? Probably not. However, we did and we got pumped. I would not really read into the game too much. Monday is where we should be judging McLeish.

Clearly we are trying to improve our grass roots football but it takes time. There are certainly some potentials for the future going by the under 21s latest performances.

It is so funny seeing the tartan army losing their shit over getting pumped against one of the best teams in the world

I think its the manner of the pumpings. I havent seen us take many pumpings at home over the years, and have seen us hold our own against top teams albeit not generally winning. Not only was that a humiliation, but for me it laid bare our complete failure (or Ecks) to adapt to a changing style of top level football. We look fucking prehistoric and it will result in many more humiliations.

[Savage Henry]

5 minutes ago, Aufc said:

Shite result yes. But scotland fans are the kings of over reacting. Belgium are far above our level. Should we have played them? Probably not. However, we did and we got pumped. I would not really read into the game too much. Monday is where we should be judging McLeish.

Clearly we are trying to improve our grass roots football but it takes time. There are certainly some potentials for the future going by the under 21s latest performances.

It is so funny seeing the tartan army losing their shit over getting pumped against one of the best teams in the world

Not sure which games you are referring to.  Toulon was an embarrassment of long ball rubbish.    Of the team that beat Andorra, I would suggest only Johnstone and Gilmour looked competent on the ball.  Some other players were miles out of their depth.  If there is optimism for the future, and I'm not convinced, it's that Gilmour is 17.  

[Lord Snooty]

6 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I think its the manner of the pumpings. I havent seen us take many pumpings at home over the years, and have seen us hold our own against top teams albeit not generally winning. Not only was that a humiliation, but for me it laid bare our complete failure (or Ecks) to adapt to a changing style of top level football. We look fucking prehistoric and it will result in many more humiliations.

You nailed it.

[accies1874]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

7 minutes ago, Aufc said:

Shite result yes. But scotland fans are the kings of over reacting. Belgium are far above our level. Should we have played them? Probably not. However, we did and we got pumped. I would not really read into the game too much. Monday is where we should be judging McLeish.

Clearly we are trying to improve our grass roots football but it takes time. There are certainly some potentials for the future going by the under 21s latest performances.

It is so funny seeing the tartan army losing their shit over getting pumped against one of the best teams in the world

I think its the manner of the pumpings. I havent seen us take many pumpings at home over the years, and have seen us hold our own against top teams albeit not generally winning. Not only was that a humiliation, but for me it laid bare our complete failure (or Ecks) to adapt to a changing style of top level football. We look fucking prehistoric and it will result in many more humiliations.

To be fair, we could've received similar pumpings in the past if teams were as clinical as Belgium. I'd say that's the best side we've faced since Spain in Euro 2012 Qualifying.