Dumbarton -vs- Montrose. Double Header

[Howlin' Wilf]

From the source I heard from, he doesn't even have the backing of 100% of the backroom staff, far less the players.

No boss has 100% backing from his staff. I neither stated or implied he had 100% backing which would never be true. Some who support him overall will have misgivings about some aspects so even an individual’s support might be 55% or 80%. That is still support.

[Homer Sandoval]

It would appear that supporting Dumbarton is a subjective thing.

Each to their own, I suppose. I just know that from experience constant negativity can have a detrimental effect on performance.

Carry on.

[George Parr]

7 minutes ago, Homer Sandoval said:

It would appear that supporting Dumbarton is a subjective thing.

Each to their own, I suppose. I just know that from experience constant negativity can have a detrimental effect on performance.

Carry on.

In this case constant negativity has had a detrimental impact on support 

[The Moonster]

I've said before on here that people are entitled to spend their cash as they wish, and I don't think it makes you a super fan if you go every week or less of a fan if you choose your games, but I question the logic of the "I'm not paying to watch that dross" at our level.  Watching Dumbarton largely is dross, even when we do well it can be hard to watch. I'm certainly not here for the standard of football.  Also, if you believe that we are shite and a change of manager or squad is required, I'm struggling to see how not giving the club money helps that situation. If you want the gaffer sacked then the club needs money to do that and get a decent replacement in. If you want players moved on in January for new players then the club needs money. It doesn't actually need those caveats, the club just needs money full stop. Staying away because of the quality on show is counter-productive to getting better quality on show.

I should add that the above doesn't equate to me saying you should blindly support every single team/board/manager that DFC has, there may well be a time where withholding money from the club is the best course of action, but I think a look at the bigger picture here is required.  I think the board are taking the right approach so far, John Steele suggested on Saturday that they would reassess the situation in 4 or 5 weeks time, that would suggest to me that Aitken hasn't got long to show some serious improvement in results. Some will argue he's had too long already, but I think the old saying of "decisions are easy when you don't have to make them" comes to mind. I've been lucky enough to be part of the working group who are helping with match day running and fundraising ideas and I can safely say that the board do listen to fans (mainly because they're all fans themselves) and they share the same concerns that we do about our team so far, but they also need to make the best decision for the club (and that's not always the popular one).  We have sensible people on that board and they have all the facts, I trust them to make the right call.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

It would appear that supporting Dumbarton is a subjective thing.
Each to their own, I suppose. I just know that from experience constant negativity can have a detrimental effect on performance.
Carry on.

Well no. As highlighted above almost every team will experience a lull in support during a poor run. In recent years I'm fairly certain Ayr and Dunfermline were pulling in far less punters when they were struggling in League 1 than compared to doing reasonably well in the league above. No doubt there will be a few fair weather home fans choosing not to attend but our crowds have mostly been impacted by dwindling away supports. I also highlighted above that in recent years we've had games against the likes Hibs, Hearts, Rangers and Dundee Utd which will always attract non regulars. We also have the issue of having an ageing support, year on year that will have a small impact.

To say "supporting Dumbarton is a subjective thing" is quite clearly a load of shite when it really is a small percentage of regulars choosing not to attend due to poor form and the brand of football. What a good run of results will actually do is attract a higher percentage of non regulars to attend and gives us an opportunity to potentially convince them to become regulars. Given that we haven't had a good run of results for a long time we have been devoid of that opportunity for the last 18 months.

[Howlin' Wilf]

This chat should really be on the Sons thread eh?

[FifeSons]

We’ve really Darren Dods’d this thread.

[FifeSons]

2 hours ago, Homer Sandoval said:

It would appear that supporting Dumbarton is a subjective thing.

Each to their own, I suppose. I just know that from experience constant negativity can have a detrimental effect on performance.

Carry on.

You seem to be completely missing the point. In an ideal world, yes, attendances would be completely independent of results/performances. But the fact is they’re not.

If I lived in Scotland, I’d go every week even if we were bottom of the Lowland League. But to expect the same of everyone who’s ever been to a Sons game is completely unrealistic.

[Boghead ranter]

55 minutes ago, Montrose moaner said:

C

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[DumbartonTheSons]

Everyone classes 'support' in a different way and it's all relatively subjective as far as I'm concerned. The performance of the team doesn't affect my attendance but I appreciate it does for others. That's their prerogative.

In relation to the 'entertainment' issue, I don't go to watch us play well, I just go to watch us. I hope we win, but over the years as we've all learned, we often don't.

I would offer the following gambit though. Would someone likely happily go to the cinema and pay £20 for it if they expected it to be 'shite'? I doubt it.

Whether the 'shite' in relation to football is performances/results or both is up to each supporter.

[pleslie99]

I don't go to watch us play well either, I go to watch us play. However, there becomes a point when watching becomes unbearable. As I said I went and watched the accies on Saturday instead of us, are they a better team that play free flowing attractive football? No. But they are a group of lads giving 100%, something I feel our side at the minute doesn't do. Why should I give my hard earned cash to watch guys that don't look like they can be bothered

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, DumbartonTheSons said:

I would offer the following gambit though. Would someone likely happily go to the cinema and pay £20 for it if they expected it to be 'shite'? I doubt it.

Whether the 'shite' in relation to football is performances/results or both is up to each supporter.

I don't think these analogies work to be honest, football is a different beast to any other line of business.  Howlin' Wilf made the point on here in another thread, what other company would look to sack their manager over say a poor 6 week performance when the previous 3 years to that have been exactly what the company (club) have asked for? It's an extremely harsh and emotional business and a lot of decisions are driven by the wrong (mainly irrational) reasons IMO.  You won't get the same rage at the Cineworld reception when a shite film is shown compared to what you get on here or Facebook after a defeat. Having said that, I know plenty of folk who love films that will go to the cinema (at times themselves) to watch whatever shite is showing. 

Also, the cinema has a much easier solution to their problem too. It's much easier for the cinema to cut a shite film from their programme if the "fans" don't like it, I have no idea how these things work but given that shite films are generally discarded from showings quicker than a dirty hanky when they aren't selling well it suggests its much easier than sacking a football manager or releasing a player.

[DumbartonTheSons]

I don't think these analogies work to be honest, football is a different beast to any other line of business.  Howlin' Wilf made the point on here in another thread, what other company would look to sack their manager over say a poor 6 week performance when the previous 3 years to that have been exactly what the company (club) have asked for? It's an extremely harsh and emotional business and a lot of decisions are driven by the wrong (mainly irrational) reasons IMO.  You won't get the same rage at the Cineworld reception when a shite film is shown compared to what you get on here or Facebook after a defeat. Having said that, I know plenty of folk who love films that will go to the cinema (at times themselves) to watch whatever shite is showing. 
Also, the cinema has a much easier solution to their problem too. It's much easier for the cinema to cut a shite film from their programme if the "fans" don't like it, I have no idea how these things work but given that shite films are generally discarded from showings quicker than a dirty hanky when they aren't selling well it suggests its much easier than sacking a football manager or releasing a player.

I do appreciate the cinema comparison isn't the best one. And I don't disagree with anything you've said above. However the point in principle remains the same. Deliver a 'shite' product for long enough and the paying customers may decide not to pay sometimes until the product improves. While football is a totally different ball game (sorry for the pun) the point remains the same across the board.

[sonsanorak]

I don't go to watch us play well either, I go to watch us play. However, there becomes a point when watching becomes unbearable. As I said I went and watched the accies on Saturday instead of us, are they a better team that play free flowing attractive football? No. But they are a group of lads giving 100%, something I feel our side at the minute doesn't do. Why should I give my hard earned cash to watch guys that don't look like they can be bothered

Who didn’t look bothered, when was this?

[Johnny Red]

I do appreciate the cinema comparison isn't the best one. And I don't disagree with anything you've said above. However the point in principle remains the same. Deliver a 'shite' product for long enough and the paying customers may decide not to pay sometimes until the product improves. While football is a totally different ball game (sorry for the pun) the point remains the same across the board.

For me, It’s not about paying £20 expecting to be entertained or expecting a winning performance, it’s about being part of something much much bigger. Yes the performances might sometimes be awful, yes the tactics can be infuriating, yes we might not all agree with who is in charge, yes I go home angry at the performances, angry at some decisions.........but you know what, in the cold light of day, I am proud to be playing my part in supporting our local team. It’s not about the manager, the board, players or any other individuals, it’s about Dumbarton Football Club - the institution that needs our support through the good times and the bad.

[pleslie99]

For me, It’s not about paying £20 expecting to be entertained or expecting a winning performance, it’s about being part of something much much bigger. Yes the performances might sometimes be awful, yes the tactics can be infuriating, yes we might not all agree with who is in charge, yes I go home angry at the performances, angry at some decisions.........but you know what, in the cold light of day, I am proud to be playing my part in supporting our local team. It’s not about the manager, the board, players or any other individuals, it’s about Dumbarton Football Club - the institution that needs our support through the good times and the bad.

I think we are all proud to be supporting Dumbarton football club. Some people have other priorities when it comes to forking out their hard earned cash on a Saturday. It comes down to that old argument again, who's a bigger supporter? He who attends every game or he who doesn't. In my opinion it doesn't matter, people have their reasons for not going but doesn't make them less of a supporter. Some will argue that not attending harm's the club by not giving them money, others will argue it sends a message to the board that they aren't happy and they want action. We could argue about it all day, it's all about opinions. We all want Dumbarton to win and be successful, that I'm sure we all agree on.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

For me, It’s not about paying £20 expecting to be entertained or expecting a winning performance, it’s about being part of something much much bigger. Yes the performances might sometimes be awful, yes the tactics can be infuriating, yes we might not all agree with who is in charge, yes I go home angry at the performances, angry at some decisions.........but you know what, in the cold light of day, I am proud to be playing my part in supporting our local team. It’s not about the manager, the board, players or any other individuals, it’s about Dumbarton Football Club - the institution that needs our support through the good times and the bad.

You should get a job designing birthday cairds.

[Johnny Red]

You should get a job designing birthday cairds.

Unfortunately that would get in the way of my day job as script writer for River City

[rockson]

2 hours ago, Johnny Red said:

 

Unfortunately that would get in the way of my day job as script writer for River City

So, you're the culprit!!!