Trapdoorwatch 2018-19

[peternapper]

The challenge cup started off with age restrictions in place but the goalposts started getting moved with some overage players allowed to help younger one. As before the folk behind this come out without setting out proper plans, stand back and see how clubs react then start fiddling with things. Still think the best place for this whole sorry carry on is in the bin.

[highlandcowden]

16 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

 

I've not attended an Irn Bru cup game since the introduction of the colts

 

me also

its a shame because I used to really like this competition

[FairWeatherFan]

12 hours ago, craigkillie said:

 

That latter Rangers team has four players who would be absolutely nowhere near their Colts team - two full internationals, an England U19 international and a Nigeria U23 international.

Killie's most recent Reserve League team included Ross Millen, Calum Waters, Iain Wilson and Greg Kiltie, again all of those are first team squad members who would not be playing in a Colts team given the restrictions on movement between the two. Rory McKenzie, Kris Boyd and Jack Byrne have all featured on multiple occasions in the reserves this season too.

You'd have a better idea on that than I. From the Killie starting line ups for the 5 Reserve Leagues that I could find were:

vs. Hamilton: Lyle; Millen, Waters, Barr, Barlow, Higgins, Paterson, Graham, Kiltie, Thomas, Cameron
vs. Dundee Utd: MacKay, millen, waters, Higgins, mclevy, Barlow, graham, Wilson, Paterson, McDonald, Thomas  
vs. Dunfermline: Mackay: Millen, Higgins, Barlow, Waters; Graham, McDonald, Kiltie, Thomas, McKenzie, Cameron
vs. Aberdeen: MacKay, Millen, Waters, McKenzie, Barlow, Wilson, Kiltie, Dicker, Boyd, Cameron, Thomas
vs. Hibernian: Mackay; Millen, Waters, Barlow, Lynch; Wilson, McDonald, Graham, Barr, Kiltie, Cameron

(5) Millen, Waters, Barlow (? 18 yrs old)
(4) Graham (Development Squad), Kiltie, Thomas (Dumbarton on-loan), Cameron (Stranraer on-loan), Mackay
(3) Higgins (Stranraer on-loan), Wilson (Development Squad), McDonald (Development Squad)
(2) Barr (Development Squad), Paterson (Troon on-loan), McKenzie
(1) Lyle (Development Squad), McLevy (Development Squad), Dicker, Boyd, Lynch (? 18 yrs old)

Those highlighted in bolded red are those within the First Team section of Kilmarnock's official website.

Apart from Kiltie, who i'm guessing is coming back from injury or fallen out of favour. I don't think senior pros have had much impact on Kilmarnock Reserves successful start to the Reserve League. Last season Millen was at Queen's Park and Waters was on loan with Sligo Rovers apparently. While Mackay was at Berwick not long ago and I don't believe as played a game for the Kilmarnock first team yet. It's possible those 3 are exactly the types of players that would be playing in a Colt team instead of largely bench warming waiting for a break.

The Reserve League might of changed it's name and age restrictions from the Development League, but it's not exactly chocca with grizzled veterans.

 

 

 

[cmontheloknow]

There just isn't the volume of talent for colts teams to be production lines of 1st team talent. Teams filled with future 'Championship and below' players. All you will prove is what the level of these guys is over the season... not SPFL Premier.

[craigkillie]

10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You'd have a better idea on that than I. From the Killie starting line ups for the 5 Reserve Leagues that I could find were:

vs. Hamilton: Lyle; Millen, Waters, Barr, Barlow, Higgins, Paterson, Graham, Kiltie, Thomas, Cameron
vs. Dundee Utd: MacKay, millen, waters, Higgins, mclevy, Barlow, graham, Wilson, Paterson, McDonald, Thomas  
vs. Dunfermline: Mackay: Millen, Higgins, Barlow, Waters; Graham, McDonald, Kiltie, Thomas, McKenzie, Cameron
vs. Aberdeen: MacKay, Millen, Waters, McKenzie, Barlow, Wilson, Kiltie, Dicker, Boyd, Cameron, Thomas
vs. Hibernian: Mackay; Millen, Waters, Barlow, Lynch; Wilson, McDonald, Graham, Barr, Kiltie, Cameron

(5) Millen, Waters, Barlow (? 18 yrs old)
(4) Graham (Development Squad), Kiltie, Thomas (Dumbarton on-loan), Cameron (Stranraer on-loan), Mackay
(3) Higgins (Stranraer on-loan), Wilson (Development Squad), McDonald (Development Squad)
(2) Barr (Development Squad), Paterson (Troon on-loan), McKenzie
(1) Lyle (Development Squad), McLevy (Development Squad), Dicker, Boyd, Lynch (? 18 yrs old)

Those highlighted in bolded red are those within the First Team section of Kilmarnock's official website.

Apart from Kiltie, who i'm guessing is coming back from injury or fallen out of favour. I don't think senior pros have had much impact on Kilmarnock Reserves successful start to the Reserve League. Last season Millen was at Queen's Park and Waters was on loan with Sligo Rovers apparently. While Mackay was at Berwick not long ago and I don't believe as played a game for the Kilmarnock first team yet. It's possible those 3 are exactly the types of players that would be playing in a Colt team instead of largely bench warming waiting for a break.

The Reserve League might of changed it's name and age restrictions from the Development League, but it's not exactly chocca with grizzled veterans.

 

 

 

Iain Wilson is a first team player who has played just under 50 first team games for us. He is listed as such on our website. Millen and Waters might be back-up players who will struggle for much game time in the first team, but they would not be part of any Colts set-up because of the proposed limitations on players moving between the first team and the Colts. If either of our first choice full-backs got a long-term injury and we had named Millen and Waters in the Colts squad then we'd be stuck.

The same might even apply to Daniel Higgins, who is our fourth choice centre-back (and is also listed as a first team player on our website, given that he was initially signed as one).

As you've pointed out, these guys are experienced senior players, even accounting for their ages - Waters has played about 100 senior games in his career and Millen almost 200. Even if they are not first picks at Premiership level, they are very likely to be a good deal better than most of the youth players who feature in the Reserve League.

For several of those games you're talking about more than half the team being changed if it's a Colts game, so I don't see how you can argue that it hasn't impacted our start to the season.

[FairWeatherFan]

58 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Iain Wilson is a first team player who has played just under 50 first team games for us. He is listed as such on our website. Millen and Waters might be back-up players who will struggle for much game time in the first team, but they would not be part of any Colts set-up because of the proposed limitations on players moving between the first team and the Colts. If either of our first choice full-backs got a long-term injury and we had named Millen and Waters in the Colts squad then we'd be stuck.

The same might even apply to Daniel Higgins, who is our fourth choice centre-back (and is also listed as a first team player on our website, given that he was initially signed as one).

As you've pointed out, these guys are experienced senior players, even accounting for their ages - Waters has played about 100 senior games in his career and Millen almost 200. Even if they are not first picks at Premiership level, they are very likely to be a good deal better than most of the youth players who feature in the Reserve League.

For several of those games you're talking about more than half the team being changed if it's a Colts game, so I don't see how you can argue that it hasn't impacted our start to the season.

Took Wilson to be aidan.

[peternapper]

Think there was something in the paper the other day saying that some clubs had been approached with a outline idea how it might be set up, it was only a few clubs that were shown this & not sure how much detail it involved. So basically it might not be specifically colts involved & like the last time full details have not been made public, I wonder why.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Took Wilson to be aidan.

It has definitely been Iain Wilson in a number of them. He's about 40 foot tall so you can't miss him in the highlights!

[Cowden Cowboy]

On 22/11/2018 at 12:01, peternapper said:

Think there was something in the paper the other day saying that some clubs had been approached with a outline idea how it might be set up, it was only a few clubs that were shown this & not sure how much detail it involved. So basically it might not be specifically colts involved & like the last time full details have not been made public, I wonder why.

Because as before they are seeking selected feedback on the concept before making a proposal?

[peternapper]

10 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Because as before they are seeking selected feedback on the concept before making a proposal?

Interesting you mention selected feedback, depending on who you ask feedback could be meaningless to the majority as they found with their last attempt 

[Cowden Cowboy]

Interesting you mention selected feedback, depending on who you ask feedback could be meaningless to the majority as they found with their last attempt 

Yes indeed but it's really up to them to choose who they consult wisely - like any opinion seeking.

[peternapper]

3 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Yes indeed but it's really up to them to choose who they consult wisely - like any opinion seeking.

Too late to start looking for it but seem to remember Doncaster saying the feedback he had been getting that the challenge cup in its present format had been a great success, if he is not already on medication of some sort he wants to think about getting some quickly.

[The Moonster]

On 23/11/2018 at 19:02, Cowden Cowboy said:

Yes indeed but it's really up to them to choose who they consult wisely - like any opinion seeking.

Well let's hope they wisely choose to not bother phoning up Central Park for your opinions.

[Cowden Cowboy]

Well Quoty McQuotface - reckon I'm more likely to be asked for an opinion than you ever will!

[Glenconner]

You’d think the diddy teams at the bottom of the Scottish League would be happy at anything that stops them potentially playing glorified boys clubs in the LL.

[Clyde01]

Any proposal involving colts sides should be a non-starter.

 

Any proposal involving colt sides parachuting in above other sides in the pyramid should be laughed out of town.

 

There is nowhere near enough evidence that the colts will benefit anyone at all for this to be brought in and ruin the lower leagues.

 

If the proposal was for colt sides to enter at the very bottom of the pyramid and work their way up to a maximum level of tier 5, ie outside of the SPFL proper then perhaps a case could be made. But its far too risky that this would open the door for further meddling as has happened with letting the fuckers into the challenge cup.

 

[peternapper]

2 hours ago, Clyde01 said:

Any proposal involving colts sides should be a non-starter.

 

Any proposal involving colt sides parachuting in above other sides in the pyramid should be laughed out of town.

 

There is nowhere near enough evidence that the colts will benefit anyone at all for this to be brought in and ruin the lower leagues.

 

If the proposal was for colt sides to enter at the very bottom of the pyramid and work their way up to a maximum level of tier 5, ie outside of the SPFL proper then perhaps a case could be made. But its far too risky that this would open the door for further meddling as has happened with letting the fuckers into the challenge cup.

 

Agree entirely with the above have always stuck to the principle of one team in the league system  per club. The existing pyramid has not been in existence all that long but the Lowland League seems to be developing the Highland league not so much but taking 4 teams out of it would totally wreck it for no other reason than making up the numbers 

[FairWeatherFan]

In the Sunday Mail Michael Gannon's article was basically in supporting the idea. Citing the examples of Andy Roberston, David Bates and Scott McKenna who played against real men in their youth.

Of course McKenna and Bates did that while being on loan from Aberdeen and Raith Rovers, and Andy Robertson having been let go from Celtic when he was what 15-16?

It's almost as if all 3 are actually examples of the existing model working rather than the need for Colt teams

[Tulloch Gorum]

19 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Well Quoty McQuotface - reckon I'm more likely to be asked for an opinion than you ever will!

 

I don't think gloating about how ordinary fans struggle to get their views heard and taken into account is quite as good a look as you seem to think it is.  Fans don't want this.  Get it to f**k.

[Cowden Cowboy]

Don't recall gloating about ordinary fans - just speaking to one fan who thinks it is appropriate to misrepresent me.  Again who elected you spokesman for fans - some fans posting on this thread don't want it a few do.  Most Scottish football fans as far as I am aware have not expressed an opinion on this.