Trapdoorwatch 2018-19

[Cowden Cowboy]

Taking your questions - Don't know but suspect only a few sides will wish to participate Old Firm and ?, because SPFL has the right to admit whoever it wishes to the SPFL, don't know, don't know, it will help their development

[Dunning1874]

On 18/11/2018 at 22:33, Cowden Cowboy said:

Well they presumably found that the Irn Bru Cup games showed that their youth sides weren't as good as they thought and that one off cup games wouldn't help remedy that - so the idea is to play games v adult players every week to help raise the standards of the youths via more intensive, regular competitive games. Nothing very complex or particularly flawed in that - they think it's worth a try I guess. So that would be the positive outcome they anticipate.

In other words they've had a trial which has completely failed, so let's double down and expand the trial even further into another competition - taking us to a position where it's going to be extremely difficult to ever remove the Colt sides - rather than accepting the idea is flawed.

7 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Taking your questions - Don't know but suspect only a few sides will wish to participate Old Firm and ?, because SPFL has the right to admit whoever it wishes to the SPFL, don't know, don't know, it will help their development

Citation needed.

[San Starko Rover]

How many times do the SPFL teams and fans need to tell them to get this shite idea in the sea. Contrary to their claims no Premiership fans will watch a team of kids playing in the lower leagues as proved by the challenge cup attendances. If they genuinely want them in then they start at the bottom like the other colt teams that exist in EOS and SOS. Thankfully this will get booted into touch as it always is. Now get back to what’s actually important in Scottish football and get a proper pyramid set up that covers the entire country instead of a patchy one with a separate artificial grade for certain teams.

 

[Cowden Cowboy]

Citation needed.

No it's not

[AsimButtHitsASix]

36 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

No it's not

Nah yer right. The reason Tony Watt hasn't fired us to World Cup glory yet is because he spent that year on loan in Belgium rather than playing against Kelty, Cove Rangers and Berwick Rangers.

I'm sure the world's defences are breathing a sigh of relief that Derek Riordan never had a year getting the shit kicked out of him by whoever was playing centreback for Elgin City and Formartine fifteen years ago

[San Starko Rover]

Nah yer right. The reason Tony Watt hasn't fired us to World Cup glory yet is because he spent that year on loan in Belgium rather than playing against Kelty, Cove Rangers and Berwick Rangers.

I'm sure the world's defences are breathing a sigh of relief that Derek Riordan never had a year getting the shit kicked out of him by whoever was playing centreback for Elgin City and Formartine fifteen years ago

No sure who played for Elgin or Formartine 15 years ago but I bet Riordan Couldn’t get a game for either these days [emoji23]

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Tried to look at the use of B teams "objectively" and had a swatch at players nominated for last year's Champions League Keeper, Defender, Midfielder or Attacker of the season.

From these 40 players 13 had came through the B team system, 13 via loans and 14 straight into the first team. B team players averaged 29 games at that level and players on loan averaged 45 games (three players had B team experience and loan experience but I chose the one more linked to their development before first team football).

It's not a detailed analysis but I think the basics are simple: with the right coaching and application from the player the form of their development doesn't make that much difference. A good player is a good player whether they play B team football, get put out on loan, thrown into first team football or kept in the reserves til they are ready.

[Jeek]

Get this idea in the sea, for good this time.

Open up the bottom, 1rel plus play-off and get teams play at the right level. If that mean some L2 teams head down a level then that's just how it is, sport is about winning AND losing. Once teams move between the 2 a bit more freely then maybe the fans won't run a mile if the team goes to the LL as it's no longer seen as an abyss.

[Tulloch Gorum]

 

5 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

In other words they've had a trial which has completely failed, so let's double down and expand the trial even further into another competition - taking us to a position where it's going to be extremely difficult to ever remove the Colt sides - rather than accepting the idea is flawed.

Citation needed.

4 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

No it's not

 

I think making all the players wear shoeboxes tied to their elbows with big strips of velcro would make them play better, and I don't need to produce any evidence at all for this for my proposal to be taken seriously.

FFS SPFL, get the shoeboxes in! 

[Cowden Cowboy]

 
 
I think making all the players wear shoeboxes tied to their elbows with big strips of velcro would make them play better, and I don't need to produce any evidence at all for this for my proposal to be taken seriously.

FFS SPFL, get the shoeboxes in! 

Yeah but some of us do actually use our brains rather than talk nonsense. It's entirely valid to suggest that colts playing regularly against adult players might well be aided in their development and indeed it is likely they would be - same as they are aided by going out on loan. Certainly I know Rangers and Celtic coaches have both said that their players benefitted from the experience gained in Irn Bru Cup ties hence the reason they think more regular such games against adult teams would be even better. That isn't controversial or fanciful.

Then there is the talk about which teams will make up the colts 4 - well it will surely be the Old Firm and 2 more. The Old Firm clubs have the infrastructure to handle this commitment and are the two clubs keenest on this. The other SPFL clubs I believe range from being interested to not being that bothered but presume Old Firm likely will bring along another two as works better politically in countering the anti-Old Firm stuff

[Cowden Cowboy]

Get this idea in the sea, for good this time.

Open up the bottom, 1rel plus play-off and get teams play at the right level. If that mean some L2 teams head down a level then that's just how it is, sport is about winning AND losing. Once teams move between the 2 a bit more freely then maybe the fans won't run a mile if the team goes to the LL as it's no longer seen as an abyss.

Why would L1/L2 clubs vote for that? Not on the cards until more L2 clubs drop into it and LL standard and depth is much enhanced to boost its viability

[Jeek]

Why would L1/L2 clubs vote for that? Not on the cards until more L2 clubs drop into it and LL standard and depth is much enhanced to boost its viability

I didn't say they would. But it's short term-ism. Imagine that currently we'd vote against it. If the shoot out against EK had gone the other way we'd be for it.

 

It takes a bit of bravery and doing things for the greater good. Which football in general is REALLY bad at.

 

[parsforlife]

A yes, always find asking employees of Celtic and rangers is the best way to offer a neutral observation on whether their own clubs plans are good or not [emoji38]

If you so desperately want cash, can you not just offer for Cowdenbeath to play them on regularly with a win bonus available?


Let them have their toy, let you have your bribe and let the rest of us get on with it.

[The Moonster]

20 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Yeah but some of us do actually use our brains rather than talk nonsense. It's entirely valid to suggest that colts playing regularly against adult players might well be aided in their development and indeed it is likely they would be - same as they are aided by going out on loan. Certainly I know Rangers and Celtic coaches have both said that their players benefitted from the experience gained in Irn Bru Cup ties hence the reason they think more regular such games against adult teams would be even better. That isn't controversial or fanciful.

Then there is the talk about which teams will make up the colts 4 - well it will surely be the Old Firm and 2 more. The Old Firm clubs have the infrastructure to handle this commitment and are the two clubs keenest on this. The other SPFL clubs I believe range from being interested to not being that bothered but presume Old Firm likely will bring along another two as works better politically in countering the anti-Old Firm stuff

Celtic and Rangers, who are both in favour of putting Colt teams into the league system, are championing the "experience gained" from their Colt sides playing in the Irn Bru Cup? Who'd a fucking thunk it

You talk about "using your brain" but we can all see the zip running up the back of your head.

[Cowden Cowboy]

A yes, always find asking employees of Celtic and rangers is the best way to offer a neutral observation on whether their own clubs plans are good or not [emoji38]

If you so desperately want cash, can you not just offer for Cowdenbeath to play them on regularly with a win bonus available?


Let them have their toy, let you have your bribe and let the rest of us get on with it.

I don't desperately want the cash or to play colts teams. Just debating the concept with an open mind unlike your blinkered approach which I doubt meets the neutral criteria. I think most reasonable people could concede that youngsters being stretched by stronger opposition on a regular basis might well benefit in terms of development. That is a separate issue from whether this proposal would overall be good for Scottish football.

[Cowden Cowboy]

Celtic and Rangers, who are both in favour of putting Colt teams into the league system, are championing the "experience gained" from their Colt sides playing in the Irn Bru Cup? Who'd a fucking thunk it

You talk about "using your brain" but we can all see the zip running up the back of your head.

So why if they didn't think the experience gained from Irn Bru was positive would they wish even more such exposure? Why would they favour colt teams in league system in the first place if they didn't think it would benefit their youngsters?

[Jacksgranda]

35 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

So why if they didn't think the experience gained from Irn Bru was positive would they wish even more such exposure? Why would they favour colt teams in league system in the first place if they didn't think it would benefit their youngsters?

It may benefit their youngsters - hard to prove such a subjective supposition - but will it benefit the SPFL and the Scotland international team? (It is supposed to benefit the national team isn't it? Isn't that one pf the points brought up about what a good idea it is?)

[The Moonster]

35 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

So why if they didn't think the experience gained from Irn Bru was positive would they wish even more such exposure? Why would they favour colt teams in league system in the first place if they didn't think it would benefit their youngsters?

Sigh. The post I quoted had you saying "well Rangers and Celtic think this will be very beneficial" in the same way that turkeys think cancelling Christmas would be very beneficial to them. Young players gaining experience by playing against adults isn't up for debate.  Diminishing the integrity of a league system to give them that experience is the issue here. These same young lads can train with their full-time clubs all week and gain first team football experience at a lower level under our current system. You saying "well this Colt system that absolutely nobody likes would also benefit their progress" is possibly the most pointless argument going on the debate.

[Cowden Cowboy]

Sigh. The post I quoted had you saying "well Rangers and Celtic think this will be very beneficial" in the same way that turkeys think cancelling Christmas would be very beneficial to them. Young players gaining experience by playing against adults isn't up for debate.  Diminishing the integrity of a league system to give them that experience is the issue here. These same young lads can train with their full-time clubs all week and gain first team football experience at a lower level under our current system. You saying "well this Colt system that absolutely nobody likes would also benefit their progress" is possibly the most pointless argument going on the debate.

Why do you twice exhibit here quotations as denoted by quotation marks which you attribute to me? I didn't say either of those - and very shoddy to misrepresent anyone in such a manner and I thus struggle to give any credence to your views. Leave that sort of tactics to the politicians.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Why do you twice exhibit here quotations as denoted by quotation marks which you attribute to me? I didn't say either of those - and very shoddy to misrepresent anyone in such a manner and I thus struggle to give any credence to your views. Leave that sort of tactics to the politicians.

You weaselled out of the debate using that credence patter the last time. It's not a good look.

It's quite clear I'm paraphrasing, if you want to argue that's not what you're saying then wire in. If you want to pretend you're hurt by being misrepresented and leave the debate then also wire in.