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RadgerTheBadger

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24 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

What utter pish.

If that were the case then why did Sturgeon bring in the Referendums (Scotland) Act?

You really are just a shite unionist troll H_B.

In fairness there are two very different bits of rhetoric coming out from the proxies.

Pete Wishaw, Ian Blackford and Co are very much pushing the softly softly approach and saying any wildcat referendum is pointless and if we lose a court case that threat disappears forever.

Angus MacNeill and Cherry a much more hardline 'we need to call a referendum and test it in court'. Supported by the likes of Stuart Campbell. Thats compelling because their case is 'what do we have to lose? We're screwed just now anyway". Can see merit in that. 

Not saying Nicola doesn't want a referendum though.  Thats some bizarre nonsense. Its just a hard sell to people that it could be a long wait for another go. 

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13 minutes ago, Bairn Necessities said:

Thats compelling because their case is 'what do we have to lose? We're screwed just now anyway". Can see merit in that. 

That was the thought when the UK was in the throngs of the Brexit fiasco, something I sympathised with but was probably wrong. People don't vote for another constitutional crisis when there's already one going on. Covid19 has postponed any hope of a majority for independence for at least a year, probably longer.

Edited by welshbairn
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Just now, welshbairn said:

That was the thought when the UK was in the throngs of the Brexit fiasco, something I sympathised with but was probably wrong. People don't vote for another constitutional crisis when there's already one going on. Covid19 has postponed any idea of a majority for independence for at least a year, probably longer.

Oh yeah, I agree. This has booted the whole thing to f**k . All bets are off for a while. Totally theoretical debate.

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In fairness there are two very different bits of rhetoric coming out from the proxies.
Pete Wishaw, Ian Blackford and Co are very much pushing the softly softly approach and saying any wildcat referendum is pointless and if we lose a court case that threat disappears forever.
Angus MacNeill and Cherry a much more hardline 'we need to call a referendum and test it in court'. Supported by the likes of Stuart Campbell. Thats compelling because their case is 'what do we have to lose? We're screwed just now anyway". Can see merit in that. 
Not saying Nicola doesn't want a referendum though.  Thats some bizarre nonsense. Its just a hard sell to people that it could be a long wait for another go. 
You are right over timescales - but some Unionists are trying to make this a Progressive/Fundamentalist split when it isn't.

I don't know any SNP members who believe the UK government has a veto - what the argument is about is the timing of a future referendum. The current coronavirus crisis has effectively made the decision IMHO - can't see a referendum until after the next Scottish Parliament elections in 2021. I think the party will have united at that point - making IndyRef2 the main focus of their manifesto.

There will be some hot air from blowhards like Alex Neil - I would hope that Salmond himself will not let this fester and damage the chances of winning a referendum in 2022 or 2023.
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Guest Bob Mahelp
41 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:



There will be some hot air from blowhards like Alex Neil - I would hope that Salmond himself will not let this fester and damage the chances of winning a referendum in 2022 or 2023.

Salmond isn't a man to fade quietly into the background. Everything is about him, and it always has been. 

I would also hope that he would join in with the rest of the SNP to try and reach the main prize, but I wouldn't bet on it. He could well become a modern day Jim Sillars, consumed by bitterness and jealousy and ever willing to give ridiculous soundbites, gratefully seized on by the media.

Edited by Bob Mahelp
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1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

That was the thought when the UK was in the throngs of the Brexit fiasco, something I sympathised with but was probably wrong. People don't vote for another constitutional crisis when there's already one going on. Covid19 has postponed any hope of a majority for independence for at least a year, probably longer.

But surely all the old folk will die and Yes will walk the next one?

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57 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Salmond isn't a man to fade quietly into the background. Everything is about him, and it always has been. 

I would also hope that he would join in with the rest of the SNP to try and reach the main prize, but I wouldn't bet on it. He could well become a modern day Jim Sillars, consumed by bitterness and jealousy and ever willing to give ridiculous soundbites, gratefully seized on by the media.

I wouldn't blame Alex Salmond for being consumed by bitterness after what he's had to face.

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What I find most astonishing here is that the man is found not guilty and there are indications of a conspiracy against him to ruin his political comeback but the know it all brigade on here continue to abuse him and allege that he has wronged.

It seems guilty despite being proven innocent is the way around here.

I found this article quite interesting:

“Today the prosecution concluded its case against Alex Salmond. The most important point was that, now the final prosecution witness has been called, we can conclusively say that the Crown did not produce a single eye witness to any of the 13 alleged incidents. This is even though many of them occurred in public; at a photo opportunity in Stirling Castle, in restaurants, in a vehicle with other occupants. It is strange that a behaviour allegedly so continuous and so compulsive was simultaneously so invisible – that is invisible to anybody who was not either a member of Nicola Sturgeon’s very closed inner circle – which describes six of the nine accusers – or a senior Scottish government civil servant, which describes the other three. It is the very narrow and connected milieu of the accusers which distinguishes this case from the comparisons the media had everywhere drawn with the monstrous Weinstein.”

And from a completely separate article:

“Remarkably, despite Alex Salmond having been a politician for over 20 years and First Minister for more than seven, there wasn’t a single allegation from all his time at Westminster. There wasn’t one allegation from a member of the public, nor from any of the many female journalists who’d interviewed him alone in hotel rooms and the like.

Every single accuser came from a very small circle within the SNP, or civil servants very closely connected to that circle – a circle at whose centre sit Nicola Sturgeon and Leslie Evans. We must note that no evidence directly links the First Minister to the events of the case, just as no German government document from 1939 to 1945 exists which explicitly connects Adolf Hitler to the Holocaust.

Readers may or may not draw their own conclusion from those facts.”

Please check your facts, accusers....

 

 

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7 hours ago, roman_bairn said:

 

It seems guilty despite being proven innocent is the way around here.

We must note that no evidence directly links the First Minister to the events of the case

Please check your facts, accusers....

 

 

Quite.

Edited by welshbairn
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8 hours ago, roman_bairn said:

Every single accuser came from a very small circle within the SNP, or civil servants very closely connected to that circle – a circle at whose centre sit Nicola Sturgeon and Leslie Evans.

And how many of these people were also in Alex Salmond's inner circle? Presumably Sturgeon didn't sack everyone when she took over, and replace them. The people who complained about Salmond's behaviour weren't smuggled in by Sturgeon, they were in a circle at whose centre sat Alex Salmond. Maybe he ran the evil conspiracy. :1eye

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And how many of these people were also in Alex Salmond's inner circle? Presumably Sturgeon didn't sack everyone when she took over, and replace them. The people who complained about Salmond's behaviour weren't smuggled in by Sturgeon, they were in a circle at whose centre sat Alex Salmond. Maybe he ran the evil conspiracy. :1eye

Where are you going with this? Completely baffling.....
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7 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


Where are you going with this? Completely baffling.....

They were Salmond's people even more so than Sturgeon's, he chose them, she just inherited them. And you quote that there is no evidence linking her to the events of the case. So what's your point?

Edited by welshbairn
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Unless I have missed it somewhere - and apologies if I have - the most sorry, and quite frankly baffling, conclusion I can draw from the last couple of dozen pages is why the f**k has no one yet posted that gif of the Salmond swagger? 

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10 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

Unless I have missed it somewhere - and apologies if I have - the most sorry, and quite frankly baffling, conclusion I can draw from the last couple of dozen pages is why the f**k has no one yet posted that gif of the Salmond swagger? 

I think I saw it pretty quickly after the verdict was announced.

ETA: dirty dingus on Monday at 15:17.

Edited by The DA
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What a horrifically crass comparison to make. Which crackpot blogger or yer da columnist wrote this?

Other than that really stupid comparison, the rest is absolutely spot on.

I agree, it’s not a great comparison (understatement) but the point should not be missed....
This.
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