git-intae-thum Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: That is true, but it's possible to have more than one opinion at the same time. Ie 1. There was likely undue pressure on various investigatory organizations to prosecute and censure Salmond far too early. Whether this was incompetence or skullduggery should be established 2. Salmond's noted behaviour is, if not illegal, unacceptable for someone in high office or any position of power Those who think no.2 first (except the maddest unionists) seem more than able to recognize no.1 is a major issue. Strangely, those who prioritize no.1 find it impossible to actually address his behaviour without implying it's all absolutely fine because he was found not guilty in court (not completely innocent of any crime as the other apologist says, as that's not actually something a court can announce, obviously). You are missing out "..in my opinion which means f@ck all...." after the bit in bold above. And that is a key exclusion. Because the fact of the matter is that he is not guilty of any crime. Therefore in the eyes of a court, in the eyes of his peers,......he is innocent. Nothing difficult in this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, git-intae-thum said: You are missing out "..in my opinion which means f@ck all...." after the bit in bold above. And that is a key exclusion. Because the fact of the matter is that he is not guilty of any crime. Therefore in the eyes of a court, in the eyes of his peers,......he is innocent. Nothing difficult in this. There really isn't anything difficult at all. Equally, nothing difficult in saying that legality isn't the single barometer of moral and ethical behaviour. Again, we go back to being able to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time. You can think he has done nothing illegal, but also that he has behaved poorly. You clearly think his behaviour is absolutely fine, which says more about you than anyone else. Neither you nor tartan da 2 have addressed his behaviour at all, and keep falling back on deliberately missing the point and saying "the court says he's no guilty though!!!!" so I'm done talking with you about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: Lol ok so still arguing semantics and defending your special boy from any criticism? "If not illegal" has, in common usage, the same meaning as "while not illegal". Therefore, there is no implication of legal guilt within the phrase, only an acknowledgement that such claims have been submitted to a court of law. Where he was found not guilty. Good for him. Does that mean his conduct can't be questioned or criticised though? Because you still refuse to come down one way or another on that. Of course people can have an opinion on his behaviour or conduct. As long as they remember that it is just an opinion.......and that others will have alternative opinions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: There really isn't anything difficult at all. Equally, nothing difficult in saying that legality isn't the single barometer of moral and ethical behaviour. Again, we go back to being able to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time. You can think he has done nothing illegal, but also that he has behaved poorly. You clearly think his behaviour is absolutely fine, which says more about you than anyone else. Neither you nor tartan da 2 have addressed his behaviour at all, and keep falling back on deliberately missing the point and saying "the court says he's no guilty though!!!!" so I'm done talking with you about it. Poor show tbh. I am neither defending or condemning Salmond because I don't know the full circumstances. I would imagine not many people do know the full circumstances. I do know he was found innocent though. And I do know there are still plenty of opinionated folk willing to pile on with faux outrage, insinuating all kinds of things against him.........months after he was found innocent. What is this based on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: The kind of folk who are pro Salmond, really from the moment he went on RT notwithstanding everything else, are members of a tribe, not a movement. Speaking for myself, it is not a case of being pro Salmond... I just it a bit unfair and distasteful that someone can be tried, found innocent, but then be continually smeared by folk with an agenda or their useful idiots. I do agree that his going on RT was the end for him as a politician though......that and the fringe show. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: The kind of folk who are pro Salmond, really from the moment he went on RT notwithstanding everything else, are members of a tribe, not a movement. I thought he was a busted flush as a frontline politico when he lost Gordon, should have taken on the elder statesman mantle imo and gone on the highly lucrative speaking circuit. He'd be a great after dinner speaker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: Lol ok so still arguing semantics and defending your special boy from any criticism? "If not illegal" has, in common usage, the same meaning as "while not illegal". Therefore, there is no implication of legal guilt within the phrase, only an acknowledgement that such claims have been submitted to a court of law. Where he was found not guilty. Good for him. Does that mean his conduct can't be questioned or criticised though? Because you still refuse to come down one way or another on that. Everyone's conduct can be questioned and/or criticised. I therefore look forward to an open enquiry where all the information is provided and proper judgements can be made. Until such time as this happens then I will continue to be critical of the SNP and the Scottish Government. This doesn't make me a Salmond supporter, they are quite separate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, MixuFruit said: You get that after dinner speakers are just collecting their bribes right? At least they wouldn't be from the Kremlin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, strichener said: Until such time as this happens then I will continue to be critical of the SNP and the Scottish Government. Seems like an honourable sentiment. Until you take into account the fact that you give the UK Government a free pass time and time again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 "It's not about defending Alex Salmond!" I scream while covering his limp willy with a picnic blanket 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said: Seems like an honourable sentiment. Until you take into account the fact that you give the UK Government a free pass time and time again. Not sure that the UK government have any involvement with this. Happy to be corrected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I assume the squiggle is Bawatchin's new alias? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, strichener said: Not sure that the UK government have any involvement with this. Happy to be corrected. You're not sure anybody within the UK Government is involved in similar historic behaviour against women? Alex Salmond has had his trial and was found innocent. Where is Boris Johnsons trial? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 What's worth remembering about Salmond is that Police Scotland interviewed 500 people and didn't get a single accusation that came from outwith the civil service WhatsApp chat members. That is despite the comically low bar set for charges to be brought including touching hair. And there was also the Met investigation. That suggests to me that he wasn't indulging in creep behaviour constantly throughout the years. Of the charges that were brought one of the two serious charges was dismantled in court with a witness who was a close friend of the accusser saying she wasn't even present that evening, the other witness saying he couldn't remember and the Bute House records showing she wasn't signed in. She also tried to drag Tasmina Asmin Sheik into it despite her father having died that day. This incident looks very much like a set up and that's why the day the defence addressed it was skipped over in the BBC documentary. The Not Proven charge seems like the only that was at all possibly worthy of a criminal complaint but it was dealt with within the civil service not long after it happened and the details that raised it to potential criminality weren't mentioned at all in the civil service investigation. That doesn't mean it didn't happen but it does make almost impossible to prosecute without more corroborating evidence..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said: You're not sure anybody within the UK Government is involved in similar historic behaviour against women? Alex Salmond has had his trial and was found innocent. Where is Boris Johnsons trial? So when you say "UK government" you actually refer to individuals rather than the collective. Let me know what I am meant to be outraged by and I'll comply. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: "It's not about defending Alex Salmond!" I scream while covering his limp willy with a picnic blanket Lol.....spreads unsubstantiated pish. Called out.......and tries to double down with an attempt at humour. Knuckle bitingly bad patter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Lol.....spreads unsubstantiated pish. Called out.......and tries to double down with an attempt at humour. Knuckle bitingly bad patter. Called out for what? My belief that despite his legal innocence Alex Salmond has behaved appallingly? I'll just go for his own lawyer calling him a sex pest and a bully on this occasion for the purposes of brevity. My assertion that you are just doing this because it's Alex Salmond? That's pretty much undoubtable. And that chronic patter has so far attracted 2 greenies my friend, and they all count 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 The mistakes made by the SG were in peak #metoo, rather than be accused of a cover up a few individuals shoddily cut corners in due process. I don't think it was deliberate or a great conspiracy to stop the resurgence of Salmond's political career. They should have gone straight to a judge led public enquiry than this politically motivated dirt trawling exercise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Did Salmond and his lawyer not both admit there was inappropriate behaviour ? So according to his very own legal team he's OFTW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: It would have to be sweltering for me to accept a bite of his solero is all I'm saying. Will these vile slanders never stop?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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