Rugster Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: That post, when compared to the 75k raised by salmond within a day perfectly illustrates the sincerity of the vast majority who were “outraged” at the “rape clause”. Rape victims were used a a political football to further independence... That target's been busted already. Next! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, J_Stewart said: Looking inwardly, it's also brought out the absolute worst in moon-howling Independence voters. One quick look at Twitter shows numerous examples of accusations of a Westminster stitch-up, Mi5 plants, accusations of media bias, I even saw one lunatic suggesting Ruth Davidson had orchestrated the whole thing. I have no idea what has happened, there are maybe 5-10 people in the whole world that actually do. Anyone jumping to one side or the other at this stage - when there is absolutely no evidence available to support either side - is a fucking lunatic that should be avoided. In addition though, the Unionists whooping and celebrating the fact that two women may have been sexually assaulted just because it smears someone they don't like are utter, utter scum. It's the exact same principle in Rangers fans revelling in child abuse because someone associated with Celtic perpetrated it. Vile behaviour. There are obviously moon-howling headcase independence supporters but if you look further up the pyramid you see unsettling things. A former senior adviser said that if Salmond were to be cleared then the Leslie Evans, the permanent secretary, should resign. Alex Salmond has personally attacked her, calling the procedures the "Leslie Evans procedure". It isn't the Leslie Evans procedure, it's the agreed procedures used by the Scottish Government to deal with harassment claims against serving or former ministers. This level of personal attack against civil servants is reminiscent of the Brexit fringes or aspect of Trump. It's also increasingly clear that there is a divide in the SNP - the First Minister has backed the Scottish Government's handling of the complaints whereas MPs and others in the party have publicised Alex Salmond's crowdfunding to take them to court. How will this play out? I can't see it being concluded without someone definitively losing. If Salmond wins his judicial review and is then cleared by the investigation and there's no criminal charges, that puts Nicola Sturgeon in a difficult position - she backed the process over her predecessor, if the court finds against her should she resign? If the Scottish Government wins and the investigation then finds against Salmond, is he going to say "fair dos" and gracefully retire? Not by the looks of what has happened in the last week or so. It's a big political crisis for the Scottish Government and the SNP, and by extension the Yes movement. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoTeamGaz Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Of course if he is guilty then I hope that his guilt is exposed and he receives appropriate punishment. the appropriate punishment, at the very, very worst case, is 26 weeks imprisonment, based on what has been printed in the DR. So in all likely hood someone's first offence, of good standing & relatively minor offence (relative to the worst kinds of sexual assault & it appearing to have not being persistent) I'd imagine the sentencing would likely be a wrap on the knuckles. That's the worst case. The press/labour parliamentarians are never going to be happy with that, it'd be seen as getting away with it. That's all based on cast iron evidence & total proof of guilt too. The worst thing of all of this is that there are a couple of women who were looking for a bit of support and have someone listen to them who have become nothing but a political football, none of the people writing think pieces in the papers or commenting on the news give a shit about them. I think there's a fair argument to say that they have been damaged by the length of time the enquiry was taking. Without knowing more into it it would seem like all that was necessary was an apology & recognition he acted wrongly in the past - maybe there's more that hasn't come out of course. I think it's unlikely that there is nothing that has gone on & the accusations are 100% false - because of that no matter what the outcome, guilty or innocent, his opponents will not let him come back from it. The whole sorry thing is just utterly depressing, burn it all down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Would be just like Salmond to turn round and donate the crowdfunding to the “Get David Goodwillie Out of Football” campaign which @Sweet Pete recently set up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 51 minutes ago, J_Stewart said: Looking inwardly, it's also brought out the absolute worst in moon-howling Independence voters. One quick look at Twitter shows numerous examples of accusations of a Westminster stitch-up, Mi5 plants, accusations of media bias, I even saw one lunatic suggesting Ruth Davidson had orchestrated the whole thing. I have no idea what has happened, there are maybe 5-10 people in the whole world that actually do. Anyone jumping to one side or the other at this stage - when there is absolutely no evidence available to support either side - is a fucking lunatic that should be avoided. In addition though, the Unionists whooping and celebrating the fact that two women may have been sexually assaulted just because it smears someone they don't like are utter, utter scum. It's the exact same principle in Rangers fans revelling in child abuse because someone associated with Celtic perpetrated it. Vile behaviour. This is a very good argument for folk not looking at at Twitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Opposition parties would have been well advised to stay well away from this story. The story has the potential to split the SNP, if not the yes movement, and Annie Wells or Jenny Marra getting on their high horse just galvanises support for the snp salmond and yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, ICTChris said: It's also increasingly clear that there is a divide in the SNP - the First Minister has backed the Scottish Government's handling of the complaints whereas MPs and others in the party have publicised Alex Salmond's crowdfunding to take them to court. How will this play out? I can't see it being concluded without someone definitively losing. If Salmond wins his judicial review and is then cleared by the investigation and there's no criminal charges, that puts Nicola Sturgeon in a difficult position - she backed the process over her predecessor, if the court finds against her should she resign? If the Scottish Government wins and the investigation then finds against Salmond, is he going to say "fair dos" and gracefully retire? Not by the looks of what has happened in the last week or so. The SNP have a huge payroll now who will stay loyal whatever happens and the membership are generally drones who follow the party line on absolutely everything. There is zero chance of a split over this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrise Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: This is a very good argument for folk not looking at at Twitter. I'll admit - I've been guilty of assuming folk saying they're sick of the "Yes Movement" (a fair opinion IMO - what is Yes ATM?) means said folk have actually changed their minds on independence. Anyone who has changed to backing the Union did so during the rise of Corbyn last year IMO. By the same token, some of those sick of it all may not campaign so strongly in the future, if at all, if some of the current folk are still there... Edited August 30, 2018 by Sunrise 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Just look at all these 'Progressives' suddenly demanding the right to a fair hearing, innocent before proven guilty. What happened to simply listening and believing victims of powerful male predators? Tribal scum of the highest order, but delighted at the enlightenment forming. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, banana said: Tribal scum of the highest order, but delighted at the enlightenment forming. Aye you sound very enlightened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, Detournement said: The SNP have a huge payroll now who will stay loyal whatever happens and the membership are generally drones who follow the party line on absolutely everything. There is zero chance of a split over this. Similar was said about labour in the early noughties. Most of those voters are now voting snp. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, sparky88 said: Opposition parties would have been well advised to stay well away from this story. The story has the potential to split the SNP, if not the yes movement, and Annie Wells or Jenny Marra getting on their high horse just galvanises support for the snp salmond and yes. Wishful thinking on your part tbh. If there is criminal proceedings brought forward, and he is found guilty, he'll be dumped by everyone in short order. He's a private citizen, not an elected official and with only the "soft power" of his previous service to open doors for him, that'd evaporate quickly in the face of a guilty verdict in any notional trial. The short term crisis regarding his membership - the SNP are trigger happy when it comes to even mere allegations of impropriety, as witnessed by Michelle Thompson, yet it's true no one wants to be the person to demand Alex Salmond give up his dogeared membership card- was resolved by his resigning it instead. People talk about how Salmond can't come back from this, even if proven innocent. Fact is there was nothing for him to come back to. It was always unlikely that another referendum would feature him prominently. His time is come and gone. The SNP also have admirable message discipline and a popular current leader. Exactly how would Salmond, if he was so moved - create a power base to challenge her in any shape or form? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: That post, when compared to the 75k raised by salmond within a day perfectly illustrates the sincerity of the vast majority who were “outraged” at the “rape clause”. Rape victims were used a a political football to further independence... Out of all of the shite being flung about by both sides, this has to be the most stupid point raised by anyone. A charity with 12k twitter followers crowdfunds less than one of the most well known figures in the country. Imagine that. Very unfortunate timing for you that those insincere virtue signalling nats have actually funded this now. Unlucky 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I'll admit - I've been guilty of assuming folk saying they're sick of the "Yes Movement" (a fair opinion IMO - what is Yes ATM?) means said folk have actually changed their minds on independence. Anyone who has changed to backing the Union did so during the rise of Corbyn last year IMO. By the same token, some of those sick of it all may not campaign so strongly in the future, if at all, if some of the current folk are still there...Everyone I know who’s sick of the Yes movement still intends to vote for independence, but it’s not for a lack of trying on the part of the roaster contingent to alienate them. This whole grubby episode is just going to reinforce that some people will jettison anyone if it means backing prominent figures to the hilt. Happened with Sheridan and it’s happening here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Strange how certain types are only concerned about sexual abuse and assault when it involves either muslims, the catholic church or Scottish nationalism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 34 minutes ago, Rodhull said: Aye you sound very enlightened. Evidently, thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Everyone I know who’s sick of the Yes movement still intends to vote for independence, but it’s not for a lack of trying on the part of the roaster contingent to alienate them. This whole grubby episode is just going to reinforce that some people will jettison anyone if it means backing prominent figures to the hilt. Happened with Sheridan and it’s happening here. This describes me pretty well. I will 100% vote Yes again but without trying to get all Dave Rubin about it, the zoomers have bored me into submission in terms of really following Scottish politics as closely as I did before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Graft Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Can't help wondering that if there is insufficient evience for a criminal case will the females involved consider a private prosecution.? (lower degree of evidence reuired in civil case) If so wonder what would be said if they saught crowd funding to help them fund their legal teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 52 minutes ago, renton said: Wishful thinking on your part tbh. If there is criminal proceedings brought forward, and he is found guilty, he'll be dumped by everyone in short order. He's a private citizen, not an elected official and with only the "soft power" of his previous service to open doors for him, that'd evaporate quickly in the face of a guilty verdict in any notional trial. The short term crisis regarding his membership - the SNP are trigger happy when it comes to even mere allegations of impropriety, as witnessed by Michelle Thompson, yet it's true no one wants to be the person to demand Alex Salmond give up his dogeared membership card- was resolved by his resigning it instead. There is no criminal trial or case at the moment - there is an investigation by the Scottish Government, which he is challenging in court. What happens if that investigation judges that he was responsible for sexual harassment? It's perfectly clear that there are plenty within the SNP who side with Alex Salmond over the civil service on this, would they accept him being excluded from the party? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 There is no criminal trial or case at the moment - there is an investigation by the Scottish Government, which he is challenging in court. What happens if that investigation judges that he was responsible for sexual harassment? It's perfectly clear that there are plenty within the SNP who side with Alex Salmond over the civil service on this, would they accept him being excluded from the party?The case has been passed to the police who are "in the early stages of investigation". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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