St Mirren vs Livi // Fantastic vs Plastic

[Buddist Monk]

There has a lot been made of this probation, it would be interesting to see what it actually contains rather than what the hordes are assuming is in it. Not that I am in any way casting aspersions on your claim, just that everyone seems to be discussing them but nobody really knows for sure.

Got to say, considering he was so keen to continue playing it seems and odd caveat to agree to.

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

There has a lot been made of this probation, it would be interesting to see what it actually contains rather than what the hordes are assuming is in it. Not that I am in any way casting aspersions on your claim, just that everyone seems to be discussing them but nobody really knows for sure.

Got to say, considering he was so keen to continue playing it seems and odd caveat to agree to.

It took a while to finally get the contract signed on KM, we wanted to separate his playing contract from his managerial one, so sticking in this probationary clause seems to be what they came up with. Don't think we wanted him as a player but since he was hell bent on continuing playing it makes sense to have a trial period.

Problem with him was he didn't play as a striker but took up a starting place as one, so we were left with LM up front by himself while KM wandered all over the pitch, mainly in midfield. And tbh i'd rather have had Sibbald or Jacobs playing there. He bangs on about his fitness being so good but always looked like he was struggling for breath, bent in two a lot getting a 2nd/3rd/4th wind. He isn't shite but he isn't fit enough for 90 mins and has no focus in his playing role.

[Buddist Monk]

4 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Problem with him was he didn't play as a striker but took up a starting place as one, so we were left with LM up front by himself while KM wandered all over the pitch, mainly in midfield. And tbh i'd rather have had Sibbald or Jacobs playing there. He bangs on about his fitness being so good but always looked like he was struggling for breath, bent in two a lot getting a 2nd/3rd/4th wind. He isn't shite but he isn't fit enough for 90 mins and has no focus in his playing role.

That may be criticism and that's fine coming from a fan, but the board brought him in as a manager. As one he should have the final say of where and when people play. If he picks himself and doesn't do the job well it's the same as any other player on the park who isn't playing well. You wouldn't get any other manager sacked within a couple of weeks simply because he is playing a line up the fans don't always agree with.

That said, I still feel this is a personality clash and not a "I want to continue playing" thing. I could be wrong, but it looks like it to me. That said, I think you will do better without him. I honestly think he has a meltdown due and I'm really not looking forward to him being linked with us. Even if the scenario was that he'd come in and score the winner this Saturday, I'd still prefer not to take him on board. After all 3 points is all fine and well, but not if you have to deal with the wallopper for the next 1 or 2 years.

[shull]

Lee Miller will cheat. 

He will dive many times. 

We'll still beat Livy 3-0.

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

That may be criticism and that's fine coming from a fan, but the board brought him in as a manager. As one he should have the final say of where and when people play. If he picks himself and doesn't do the job well it's the same as any other player on the park who isn't playing well. You wouldn't get any other manager sacked within a couple of weeks simply because he is playing a line up the fans don't always agree bweith.

That said, I still feel this is a personality clash and not a "I want to continue playing" thing. I could be wrong, but it looks like it to me. That said, I think you will do better without him. I honestly think he has a meltdown due and I'm really not looking forward to him being linked with us. Even if the scenario was that he'd come in and score the winner this Saturday, I'd still prefer not to take him on board. After all 3 points is all fine and well, but not if you have to deal with the wallopper for the next 1 or 2 years.

He wasn't sacked for that though, he was told the playing side wasn't working out and we just wanted him as a manager, he wanted to keep on playing so there was an amicable parting of the ways.

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 minutes ago, shull said:

Danny Mullen will cheat. 

He will dive many times. 

We'll still beat St Mirren 3-0.

FTFY

[Munoz]

1 minute ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

He wasn't sacked for that though, he was told the playing side wasn't working out and we just wanted him as a manager, he wanted to keep on playing so there was an amicable parting of the ways.

Still got " things to sort out " according to Alan Stubbs on Sky Sports.  I'd imagine that's possibly his severance package. 

[Buddist Monk]

3 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

He wasn't sacked for that though, he was told the playing side wasn't working out and we just wanted him as a manager, he wanted to keep on playing so there was an amicable parting of the ways.

Nobody believes it's "amicable". 

I still think it's a valid point though, if he was the manager then he sets out the team and while fans can moan the BoD certainly shouldn't be getting involved in picking the team.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 minute ago, Munoz said:

Still got " things to sort out " according to Alan Stubbs on Sky Sports.  I'd imagine that's possibly his severance package. 

According to Stubbs, is he Miller's agent?

 

1 minute ago, Buddist Monk said:

Nobody believes it's "amicable". 

I still think it's a valid point though, if he was the manager then he sets out the team and while fans can moan the BoD certainly shouldn't be getting involved in picking the team.

Doubt the fans moaning had anything to do with it, the fans were all wanting Hoppy sacked after being relegated to League One, if we were so influential on Board decisions about managerial matters we'd never have got back to back promotions.

[Buddist Monk]

23 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Doubt the fans moaning had anything to do with it, the fans were all wanting Hoppy sacked after being relegated to League One, if we were so influential on Board decisions about managerial matters we'd never have got back to back promotions.

Sure, I'm just saying the fans have a right to mump and moan, while the board hire a manager to pick and play a team. If Miller picks himself then the BoD really shoudn't get involved.

As it is, I don't believe it's anything on the pitch, instead a personality clash behind the scenes with Martindale orchestrating it if you go by Miller's wife's twitter (which I don't btw).

[andylivi1]

This could go one of two ways, we approach this with a siege mentality, the world is against us and all that or the players will struggle to get motivated after a tough week. 

Im going to go with the first option having watched this group of players, they are a professional bunch and will put everything into the game. 

It all depends on what St Mirren side turn up, it would appear Saints fans don’t know that themselves so I’m not going to even try and guess. 

On Kenny Miller, if what I’m told is true then good riddance, far too big an ego to be in control of a small club like ours. 

Think we may go :- 

Kelly, Kaja, Lithgow, Halkett, Gallagher, Lawless, Byrne, Pittman, Jacobs, Miller/Hamilton, Robinson

[Munoz]

30 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

According to Stubbs, is he Miller's agent?

 

Doubt the fans moaning had anything to do with it, the fans were all wanting Hoppy sacked after being relegated to League One, if we were so influential on Board decisions about managerial matters we'd never have got back to back promotions.

Obviously not his agent,  but I'd guess he may know more than you. 

Whatever happens,  I'm 99% sure Miller won't be walking away empty handed. 

[Buddist Monk]

See the biggest issue I have with Kenny Miller signing for us, is not that he's a complete wallopper - albeit one that knows how to get to goal - it's that should Stubbs stumble it will be Miller who is called upon as the caretaker and then possible permanent manager. I really, really, really don't want that to happen.

[Munoz]

4 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

See the biggest issue I have with Kenny Miller signing for us, is not that he's a complete wallopper - albeit one that knows how to get to goal - it's that should Stubbs stumble it will be Miller who is called upon as the caretaker and then possible permanent manager. I really, really, really don't want that to happen.

The old board seemed to like going down that road. As of yet , I've seen no evidence that this would be repeated by our current board. 

[Buddist Monk]

2 minutes ago, Munoz said:

The old board seemed to like going down that road. As of yet , I've seen no evidence that this would be repeated by our current board. 

The new board didn't really have a choice, as there was nobody in the team with the relevant badges and a desire to manage. The Stubbs choice seemed to me to be the best of an ever decreasing pool.

[shull]

6 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

FTFY

Probably correct with your first two lines. 

[djchapsticks]

5 hours ago, Buddist Monk said:

The new board didn't really have a choice, as there was nobody in the team with the relevant badges and a desire to manage. The Stubbs choice seemed to me to be the best of an ever decreasing pool.

I'd imagine in any such (purely hypothetical - I mean like 3 or 4 leaps of logic away) situation McManus would caretaker with Miller helping.

[Munoz]

19 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I'd imagine in any such (purely hypothetical - I mean like 3 or 4 leaps of logic away) situation McManus would caretaker with Miller helping.

Or possibly Andy Webster having some input in this imaginary football world. 

[Demented Zebra]

18 hours ago, Buddist Monk said:

See the biggest issue I have with Kenny Miller signing for us, is not that he's a complete wallopper - albeit one that knows how to get to goal - it's that should Stubbs stumble it will be Miller who is called upon as the caretaker and then possible permanent manager. I really, really, really don't want that to happen.

Rangers create a lot more chances than we do yet he was not prolific the last two seasons there. I'm not against us signing him but he is not the goal machine he once was. The big Dane could be a surprise he is yet to play a home game where we are attacking. 

[Buddist Monk]

41 minutes ago, Demented Zebra said:

Rangers create a lot more chances than we do yet he was not prolific the last two seasons there. I'm not against us signing him but he is not the goal machine he once was. The big Dane could be a surprise he is yet to play a home game where we are attacking. 

About BM? Yeah, we'll just need to wait and see.

As for Miller he was not prolific at Rangers because he was injured then fell out with the management. With Livi he was forced to go deep because they weren't playing the way he wanted them to. I reckon he'd hid double figures (just) in a season. I also reckon, and the argument is moot, that he'd score more goals for us than Stokes would should he join us.