Club vs International Football

[buchan30]

Its a tough one. Having been part of the jubilation of winning the league cup against celtic, playing bayern etc. I would be tempted to choose club. But at the same time, watching the 78 documentary it would have been great to have been alive for that, the hype seemed unbelievable and if we had won it, the celebrations would have been beyond belief.

[Honest_Man#1]

I’m glad that the majority of the responses suggest that people are still big supporters of the national team up here. Living down in England I found it quite bizarre how many people actively disliked or were completely indifferent to the England team, usually based on their club (Man Utd fans claiming England blamed them for their lack of success, and therefore hoping they lost every time they played - one actively supported Scotland in the recent games).

[buchan30]

The england national team suffer from fans indifference due to the heavy advertisement of the epl and pundits peddling this myth that the league is more important than their national team, and that international football just gets in the road of their product. But they same fans would have been riding the wave when they made the semi finals.

[The_Kincardine]

9 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

As for club affiliation, thank god we've not got selectors anymore picking mediocre Rangers players ahead of Lisbon Lions purely based on their bias.

Selective memory you have of your 6 decades watching Scotland. I blame old age.

 

I can think of only two Rangers players who were selected ahead of future Lisbon Lions and both were selected by Jock Stein and before 1967.  Stein dropped McNeil after he sold the jerseys against Poland in 1965 and put Ron McKinnon in his place.  This was sensible.  McKinnon was the much more adept and cultured defender. The bigger question to be asked is how McBungle still got an occasional gig when Scotland had Ron Yeats fit and available.  I can only think it was down to McNeil having played in Lisbon as Yeats was the better defender.

Stein also favoured Willie Henderson over future LL, Jimmy Johnstone.  Again, this was sensible.  Henderson was the faster, stronger winger with a better final ball.

If you look at the iconic 1967 Scotland side which defeated England it had 2 Rangers players:  Greig and McKinnon.  It also had 4 Lisbon Lions.  Ergo your assertion that Scotland, picked, "mediocre Rangers players ahead of Lisbon Lions" is the usual tripe we expect from the diddies.

Selective memory you have. (to quote you).  I'm not sure what to blame.  Probably stupidity.  Still, you have a chance to redeem yourself.  Based on your memory of Scottish football in the 1960s which players would you have selected between McNeil, McKinnon, Henderson and Johnstone?  Also, which Lisbon Lion players were displaced by , 'mediocre Rangers players'.  You clearly have a list in mind so it would be interesting for you to share it.

 

[Eednud]

2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

I can think of only two Rangers players who were selected ahead of future Lisbon Lions and both were selected by Jock Stein and before 1967.  Stein dropped McNeil after he sold the jerseys against Poland in 1965 and put Ron McKinnon in his place.  This was sensible.  McKinnon was the much more adept and cultured defender. The bigger question to be asked is how McBungle still got an occasional gig when Scotland had Ron Yeats fit and available.  I can only think it was down to McNeil having played in Lisbon as Yeats was the better defender.

Stein also favoured Willie Henderson over future LL, Jimmy Johnstone.  Again, this was sensible.  Henderson was the faster, stronger winger with a better final ball.

If you look at the iconic 1967 Scotland side which defeated England it had 2 Rangers players:  Greig and McKinnon.  It also had 4 Lisbon Lions.  Ergo your assertion that Scotland, picked, "mediocre Rangers players ahead of Lisbon Lions" is the usual tripe we expect from the diddies.

Selective memory you have. (to quote you).  I'm not sure what to blame.  Probably stupidity.  Still, you have a chance to redeem yourself.  Based on your memory of Scottish football in the 1960s which players would you have selected between McNeil, McKinnon, Henderson and Johnstone?  Also, which Lisbon Lion players were displaced by , 'mediocre Rangers players'.  You clearly have a list in mind so it would be interesting for you to share it.

 

From memory English clubs weren't obliged to release Scottish players called up for international duty back then or they'd say the player had an injury and couldn't travel but still play the following Saturday.

[ShaggysBeard]

Absolutely Scotland winning a World Cup. 

To be honest, I was a little shocked it wasn't around an 80/20 split in favour of a Scottish World Cup win.

[Peppino Impastato]

13 hours ago, Crawford Bridge said:

Nobody cares what you think.

Irrelevant, I'm stating fact.  To choose club is the absolute definition of parochial.

[ShaggysBeard]

2 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Irrelevant, I'm stating fact.  To choose club is the absolute definition of parochial.

That would be an ecumenical matter.

[Peppino Impastato]

2 hours ago, Eednud said:

From memory English clubs weren't obliged to release Scottish players called up for international duty back then or they'd say the player had an injury and couldn't travel but still play the following Saturday.

Aye it's just Celtic that do that now

[The Minertaur]

Club everyday.  Obviously Scotland winning (or even qualifying) the World Cup would be incredible and a never forgotten moment but it just wouldn't be as special as Cowden achieving something. I've travelled all over the country to watch Cowden - 4 hours bus journeys midweek to see us lose. My Dad's a director, my Mum counts the cash at the game and I even write some articles for the programme. Heck I've even painted the tunnel at Central Park.  It would mean the world to my family if we actually won a cup.

Scotland? I've been to 5 games in my life and as much as I enjoy them I just don't feel the same sense of elation when we score or utter dejection when we concede a late equaliser.  Obviously it would be different with a major tournament - there would be utter pandemonium across the country if we actually scored a goal at a world cup nevermind winning the bloody thing!

[Blootoon87]

World Cup win for me. No voters joining in the celebrations would stick in my throat though, they don't deserve it.

[TheScarf]

54 minutes ago, ShaggysBeard said:

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Careful now.

[Squirrelhumper]

6 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

I can think of only two Rangers players who were selected ahead of future Lisbon Lions and both were selected by Jock Stein and before 1967.  Stein dropped McNeil after he sold the jerseys against Poland in 1965 and put Ron McKinnon in his place.  This was sensible.  McKinnon was the much more adept and cultured defender. The bigger question to be asked is how McBungle still got an occasional gig when Scotland had Ron Yeats fit and available.  I can only think it was down to McNeil having played in Lisbon as Yeats was the better defender.

Stein also favoured Willie Henderson over future LL, Jimmy Johnstone.  Again, this was sensible.  Henderson was the faster, stronger winger with a better final ball.

If you look at the iconic 1967 Scotland side which defeated England it had 2 Rangers players:  Greig and McKinnon.  It also had 4 Lisbon Lions.  Ergo your assertion that Scotland, picked, "mediocre Rangers players ahead of Lisbon Lions" is the usual tripe we expect from the diddies.

Selective memory you have. (to quote you).  I'm not sure what to blame.  Probably stupidity.  Still, you have a chance to redeem yourself.  Based on your memory of Scottish football in the 1960s which players would you have selected between McNeil, McKinnon, Henderson and Johnstone?  Also, which Lisbon Lion players were displaced by , 'mediocre Rangers players'.  You clearly have a list in mind so it would be interesting for you to share it.

 

I notice you completely ignored the bit about your lot singing the Sash in the West Terrace back then? Yet you take exception at a few tubes booing Ian Black coming on as sub (he should never have been in the squad in a million years and wouldn't have been if he wasn't at the old firm) and a few clowns booing Ryan Jack at PIttodrie, guys who would more than likely never be near Hampden.

I've never heard any Scottish player booed in Glasgow except Gary Mac and as shameful as that was, it was nothing to do with club allegiance.

[Peppino Impastato]

13 hours ago, Blootoon87 said:

World Cup win for me. No voters joining in the celebrations would stick in my throat though, they don't deserve it.

Yeah it's not their team and doesn't represent them.  There should be a UK team if they get their way in indyref two.

[HoBNob]

On 8/14/2018 at 09:32, accies1874 said:

"Look at me, I'm a better fan than you because I wear a kilt."

I've heard this loads as a reason for people disliking people who support Scotland, yet not once ever heard it actually uttered. 

 

[The_Kincardine]

20 hours ago, Eednud said:

From memory English clubs weren't obliged to release Scottish players called up for international duty back then or they'd say the player had an injury and couldn't travel but still play the following Saturday.

The home Scots were usually favoured over the Anglo Scots but that policy seemed to have died out by 1967 - which is why that team had 5/11 Anglos.  It doesn't explain why McBungle was favoured over Yeats, who already had Scotland caps.

16 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I notice you completely ignored the bit about your lot singing the Sash in the West Terrace back then? 

I ignored it because it was irrelevant.  Love it or loath it 'The Sash' was regularly chanted by supporters of teams other than Rangers during the period we're discussing.  You'd certainly hear it from the home support at, say, Fir Park, Dens, Shawfield, Broomfield, Rugby Park or Tynecastle.  To regard it as, then, a Rangers song is ignorant.

Now, be a good boy and tell me:  which Lisbon Lion players were displaced by , 'mediocre Rangers players'.  You clearly have a list in mind so it would be interesting for you to share it.  Remember, this was your substantive point so I'm happy to give you the floor.

[Eednud]

I ignored it because it was irrelevant.  Love it or loath it 'The Sash' was regularly chanted by supporters of teams other than Rangers during the period we're discussing.  You'd certainly hear it from the home support at, say, Fir Park, Dens, Shawfield, Broomfield, Rugby Park or Tynecastle.  To regard it as, then, a Rangers song is ignorant.

Memory might be playing tricks but attending matches at Dens Park from 1960-1974 and 1977-1980 I never heard the home support singing that song.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1975 and 1976 they couldnae get enough of it tho'. Honest.

[Guest JTS98]

I don't see why anyone should have to choose. I'm a Hearts supporter and I'm a Scotland supporter. I see no conflict there.

In fact, I did once see both my sides win a trophy on the same day. Watched Scotland win the 2006 Kirin Cup in the boozer before Hearts murdered Gretna on penalties in the Scottish Cup final.

I think many people in Scotland are down on the national side simply because we've been shite for so many years. Having been at the World Cup in Russia and experienced the atmosphere, it would be sensational if we qualified, never mind won it.

And I don't understand not supporting the national team because of the SFA or the Tartan Army. The SFA are bell-ends, for sure, but Hearts have been run by some utter cretins in my time, it's never made me give up on them. Also, some Hearts fans are utter dicks, doesn't make me stop supporting my team.

[accies1874]

43 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I don't see why anyone should have to choose. I'm a Hearts supporter and I'm a Scotland supporter. I see no conflict there.

The diddies occasionally have to choose between Scotland and their club.