Strikers coming through

[Molotov]

I really only ever remember Big Dunc playing well against Germany (possibly a friendly) at Ibrox during his time with the national team.

His record reads - 7 caps 0 goals 

Would have loved for him to be a success for Scotland but he was hardly even a prolific striker with Everton.

One striker I always felt was overlooked for Scotland was Andy Gray. Overlooked for the ‘78, 82 and ‘86 WC. 

He was on fire in 77/78 with Villa winning the YPOTY & POTY Awards but not taken to Argentina by Ally McLeod who took Derek Johnstone and Joe Harper. 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Molotov

[Gordopolis]

34 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

First part, I wasn't aware of that tbh. Is it a book worth reading?

Second part I think he probably would have been for us tbh. He doesn't have to be Ronaldo to achieve that.

I really enjoyed the book - lots of 80s nostalgia from Nevin's career down in London with Chelsea.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Accidental-Footballer-Pat-Nevin/dp/1913183386/

Bit pricey at £8.99 (could get two whopper meals with that) but it'll be on a 99p deal (cheeseburger) at some point.

 

Second bit: was he any better than his contemporary, Kevin Gallagher? I'd say not. Gallagher's career record shades DF's, and he bagged a respectable 53 caps, so not sure why Ferguson would have been any greater a presence for us than that. Obviously the big tall battering ram thing could have carved him a niche for us, but the way he talks it's as if he was on course for his laughable 200 caps (when in fact he retired at 26 with a pathetic 7 caps, 0 goals).

 

[Molotov]

19 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

he talks it's as if he was on course for his laughable 200 caps (when in fact he retired at 26 with a pathetic 7 caps, 0 goals).

 

Pethaps big Dunc believes that he was the Scottish equivalent of a combination of Flo and Zlatan.

Ibrahimović - 62 goals in 121 appearances.

Tore Andre Flo - 23 goals in 76 appearances.

I don’t think Ibrahimović has actually retired yet. What a pler.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Molotov

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, Binos said:

What's your explanation 

Satoshis is, its all rosy in the garden and everythings great, one qualification in a quarter of a century 

But what's yours?

A more boring one. We've simply not produced enough good players up to the age where they should be breaking into first teams. The footballing world moved on in terms of player development and we didn't. In an ideal world, limiting non Scots would probably be a good move for the national team but I doubt it's anywhere near the root cause.

[Satoshi]

4 hours ago, Binos said:

What's your explanation 

Satoshis is, its all rosy in the garden and everythings great, one qualification in a quarter of a century 

But what's yours?

Not what I said, I explained why your position on more domestic players in domestic league = better national team is clearly not accurate.

We qualified for our last euros and got to the world cup qualifying playoff. Things are certainly good just us and looking up.

That must pain you terribly.

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

A more boring one. We've simply not produced enough good players up to the age where they should be breaking into first teams. The footballing world moved on in terms of player development and we didn't. In an ideal world, limiting non Scots would probably be a good move for the national team but I doubt it's anywhere near the root cause.

It is cyclical as well, countries who wildly overperform for so long eventually come down to earth (consider us and Hungary). We have been far better than Denmark for most of our footballing history, that's why we have qualified for 9 world cups and they have only managed 6, and why our h2h record is a fair bit better (including beating them 8 times in our first 9 meetings).

It wasnt realistic we would always outperform, nice to give someone else their moment in the sun. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

10 hours ago, Snobot said:

I remember him when he first broke through hitting the bar with an overhead kick v Germany in a friendly and he was unplayable. We were wearing one of the crazy 90s strips, maybe the salmon pink one, and the hype was real. He came back and  played in the replayed 1997 Estonia game in Manaco and we just lazily launched 40 yard balls in his general direction as I recall. Ian Ferguson also got a recall in that game and fell out with the fans at full time. Definitely a squandered international career though. Gallagher was on a hot streak but we had John McGinley, Gordon Durie and Darren Jackson who were workmanlike at best. Imagine a parallel world where DF plays v Brazil, not DJ. 

That was my first Scotland game on a trip with the high school, we were behind the goals for that overhead. Good Times.

9 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

I really enjoyed the book - lots of 80s nostalgia from Nevin's career down in London with Chelsea.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Accidental-Footballer-Pat-Nevin/dp/1913183386/

Bit pricey at £8.99 (could get two whopper meals with that) but it'll be on a 99p deal (cheeseburger) at some point.

 

Second bit: was he any better than his contemporary, Kevin Gallagher? I'd say not. Gallagher's career record shades DF's, and he bagged a respectable 53 caps, so not sure why Ferguson would have been any greater a presence for us than that. Obviously the big tall battering ram thing could have carved him a niche for us, but the way he talks it's as if he was on course for his laughable 200 caps (when in fact he retired at 26 with a pathetic 7 caps, 0 goals).

 

Ill check it out.

2nd bit, you've maybe ate a hallucinogenic whopper or two. Ferguson was a much better player. Im sure Gallagher had a better personality and probably professional attitude. But ability wise, hes not better at anything in comparison.

[Ewanandmoreagain]

57 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

That was my first Scotland game on a trip with the high school, we were behind the goals for that overhead. Good Times.

Ill check it out.

2nd bit, you've maybe ate a hallucinogenic whopper or two. Ferguson was a much better player. Im sure Gallagher had a better personality and probably professional attitude. But ability wise, hes not better at anything in comparison.

Pace , and actually scoring !

[Lurkst]

12 hours ago, Molotov said:

I really only ever remember Big Dunc playing well against Germany (possibly a friendly) at Ibrox during his time with the national team.

His record reads - 7 caps 0 goals 

Would have loved for him to be a success for Scotland but he was hardly even a prolific striker with Everton.

I remember him being penalised continually for physical play. European refs seemed a lot less lenient towards Dunc's style than British ones.

 

[Binos]

20 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

A more boring one. We've simply not produced enough good players up to the age where they should be breaking into first teams. The footballing world moved on in terms of player development and we didn't. In an ideal world, limiting non Scots would probably be a good move for the national team but I doubt it's anywhere near the root cause.

It doesn't stand to reason 

So every striker out there in every youth team is garbage 

But full backs and defensive midfielders are ok

There's something blocking them coming through 

[Gordopolis]

12 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

That was my first Scotland game on a trip with the high school, we were behind the goals for that overhead. Good Times.

Ill check it out.

2nd bit, you've maybe ate a hallucinogenic whopper or two. Ferguson was a much better player. Im sure Gallagher had a better personality and probably professional attitude. But ability wise, hes not better at anything in comparison.

Dunno, I'd say Dunc had a far bigger personality on the pitch, but his contribution never came close to matching that.

Gallacher was a quiet man on the field, but nippy, skilfull and a decent goal threat for club and country.

I don't want this to turn into a Satoshi esque black hole about Gallacher Vs Dunc, just feel Dunc was never, and never could have been, the player he is claiming he could have been. Well maybe he could have got closer to it, were it not for the aforesaid shocking attitude problem.

[Lurkst]

21 hours ago, Satoshi said:

 We have been far better than Denmark for most of our footballing history, that's why we have qualified for 9 world cups and they have only managed 6, and why our h2h record is a fair bit better (including beating them 8 times in our first 9 meetings).

That comparison is a bit skewed given Denmark were an amateur side until the 1970s.

 

[Satoshi]

2 hours ago, Lurkst said:

That comparison is a bit skewed given Denmark were an amateur side until the 1970s.

 

Shouldn't it be counted because they were an amateur side?

Germany won the world cup in 1954 with a semi professional side (they had been amateurs until 1949), and the country didn't even have a national league until the 1960s.

[Bing.McCrosby]

9 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

I don't want this to turn into a Satoshi esque black hole

Just you wait, im currently working on paragraph 17. Which will cover Nigerias acceptance into fifa in 1960. And then no 2 glamrock hits from 1971.

[velo army]

On 08/02/2023 at 22:57, BingMcCrosby said:

Im not sure either way on that, I dont know the ins and outs of it tbh. But were the sfa not a big part of him getting jailed for not alot. I dont mean its acceptable, but we've seen alot worse on football pitches most seasons, without anyone getting locked up.

Its just a shame, he could have been the difference for us.

I don't agree that it was a "nothing incident" that he said it was. I love a bit of argy bargy on the pitch, but he turned round and nutted a guy. Absolute bamstick behaviour and disappointing that he doesn't show much remorse even now. 

I think he'd have had a few caps, and he'd certainly have gone to the world cup. I'd have absolutely loved him as a Scotland player tbh.

I don't think I have seen much worse on the pitch in terms of assault. Maybe Aaron Muirhead v QOS, but that chap earned it and big Aero wasn't on parole at the time .

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

There should be a limit of four foreigners per team. This would be called the Foureigner Rule.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 hours ago, velo army said:

I don't agree that it was a "nothing incident" that he said it was. I love a bit of argy bargy on the pitch, but he turned round and nutted a guy. Absolute bamstick behaviour and disappointing that he doesn't show much remorse even now. 

I think he'd have had a few caps, and he'd certainly have gone to the world cup. I'd have absolutely loved him as a Scotland player tbh.

I don't think I have seen much worse on the pitch in terms of assault. Maybe Aaron Muirhead v QOS, but that chap earned it and big Aero wasn't on parole at the time .

Just went onto YouTube to watch it again, its hard to tell how much was in it. These days we would have 5 angles and see it clearly. There may not have been much contact, or it might have been brutal. Only 2 folk will really know.

But come on you have loads of intentional legs breaking challenges to choose from. Many of which ended careers. Zidanes headbutt, suarez literally trying to eat people on the pitch.

Its not up there.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Was looking at the Scottish Premiership scorer and assist charts.

Out of the 20 positions (Top 10 scorers & Top 10 assists) there were 2 Scottish players.  Shankland and Turnbull.

[troopio]

19 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Was looking at the Scottish Premiership scorer and assist charts.

Out of the 20 positions (Top 10 scorers & Top 10 assists) there were 2 Scottish players.  Shankland and Turnbull.

It is a huge concern isnt it? I fear we are going backwards again, barely any good players coming through in Key positions and if they do they sign for CLubs that they sit on the bench for 9 times out of 10.

[BB_Bino]

9 minutes ago, troopio said:

It is a huge concern isnt it? I fear we are going backwards again, barely any good players coming through in Key positions and if they do they sign for CLubs that they sit on the bench for 9 times out of 10.

Think it is a concern and the Under 21's don't seem to have anybody to get excited over either. I know most of the players don't really do much when given the chance but there's normally someone young that everyone is keeping an eye on (Fraser Hornby as an example) but we don't even have that at the moment.

I think we are going backwards in this department, but that's why Clarke has had to go and persuade Adams & Dykes to switch to us. Had the quality already of been there then this probably wouldn't have happened.

[troopio]

4 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

Think it is a concern and the Under 21's don't seem to have anybody to get excited over either. I know most of the players don't really do much when given the chance but there's normally someone young that everyone is keeping an eye on (Fraser Hornby as an example) but we don't even have that at the moment.

I think we are going backwards in this department, but that's why Clarke has had to go and persuade Adams & Dykes to switch to us. Had the quality already of been there then this probably wouldn't have happened.

Fully Agree.

I do not normally agree with likes of Bill Leckie but in The S** today he made some good points on this situation.

I think the issue is we have become blinded by what the Elite Level of the game has created, small, technically gifted players with a low centre of gravity etc etc. Do not get me wrong these players are great but half the reason Haaland stands out so much, apart from being an Alien, is that he is a throwback to a type of Striker that was Ten a penny back in the day. in the 70s, 80s, early 90s, big tall, physical strikers who could stick the ball in the net. Now it is all false 9s, Wingers who cut inside and the like. 

We need to take what is unique about our game and use it to our advantage instead of trying to be like other nations.