Strikers coming through

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, lubo_blaha said:

Can’t believe anyone in Scotland is watching some English guff over Killie vs Arbroath.

Unfortunately I'm working, so watching neither. But caught the first 10 mins of this

[Lex]

Young striker coming thru Jordan Rhodes is just starting on sky against Barnsley.
With our current situation (cant believe im saying this) he could potentially come into contention if he's playing well.

Jeez there’s a blast from the past. I remember people on this forum saying we should cap him incase he changed his mind and wanted to play for England

[RobbieD]

[Quentin Taranbino]

Sam Gallagher at Blackburn Rovers is the latest Scotland eligible striker to hit a small purple patch - scored again last night and think he has 9 for the season now.

He played for our youth teams before switching to England when he broke through at Southampton but obviously never made it there and came out last year saying he wants to play for Scotland now.

I'm not actually that bothered about the above as these things happen and we aren't blessed with many out and out strikers playing at decent level. Never been massively impressed with him though, always thought he was a bit rank although admittedly I haven't seen much of Blackburn at all this season so maybe he has turned it around.

Even with Dykes and Adams currently fit, with potentially 5 games in June within 2 weeks  -I would want more backup than Jacob Brown as an out and out striker. I think there will definitely be a place or two up top in the squad for someone new (even if Ross Stewart is called up again)

[RobbieD]

9 hours ago, DavidMcG said:

Sam Gallagher at Blackburn Rovers is the latest Scotland eligible striker to hit a small purple patch - scored again last night and think he has 9 for the season now.

He played for our youth teams before switching to England when he broke through at Southampton but obviously never made it there and came out last year saying he wants to play for Scotland now.

I'm not actually that bothered about the above as these things happen and we aren't blessed with many out and out strikers playing at decent level. Never been massively impressed with him though, always thought he was a bit rank although admittedly I haven't seen much of Blackburn at all this season so maybe he has turned it around.

Even with Dykes and Adams currently fit, with potentially 5 games in June within 2 weeks  -I would want more backup than Jacob Brown as an out and out striker. I think there will definitely be a place or two up top in the squad for someone new (even if Ross Stewart is called up again)

I’d rather have Rhodes.

[Satoshi]

On 23/04/2022 at 05:41, Lex said:

 

Jeez there’s a blast from the past. I remember people on this forum saying we should cap him incase he changed his mind and wanted to play for England

 

Wasn't a particularly outrageous suggestion at the time, Jay Bothroyd had a far inferior record in the Championship and got an England cap in 2010 - Rhodes breakout championship season was 2012.

And his record was also better than Dave Nugent when he was capped in 2007 (whilst playing in the Championship).

Rhodes breakout championship year was at the same age that Nugent got his call up, and far younger than Bothroyd, so certainly a chance that England would have called him up. Their strikers at the time weren't great either - their 2012 euros squad included Defoe, Carroll and Welbeck.

Could England have taken a punt on him for a friendly like they did with Nugent and Bothroyd (two players with inferior records?), it's an almost certainty they thought about it.

[craigkillie]

He was never playing for anyone other than Scotland.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

Wasn't a particularly outrageous suggestion at the time, Jay Bothroyd had a far inferior record in the Championship and got an England cap in 2010 - Rhodes breakout championship season was 2012.

And his record was also better than Dave Nugent when he was capped in 2007 (whilst playing in the Championship).

Rhodes breakout championship year was at the same age that Nugent got his call up, and far younger than Bothroyd, so certainly a chance that England would have called him up. Their strikers at the time weren't great either - their 2012 euros squad included Defoe, Carroll and Welbeck.

Could England have taken a punt on him for a friendly like they did with Nugent and Bothroyd (two players with inferior records?), it's an almost certainty they thought about it.

Yeah your probably right, time has made it look a ridiculous prospect but it could have happened.

I remember my Liverpool supporting mate (who wasn't scottish) saying at the time Rhodes was the kind of player they should be taking a chance on.

11 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

He was never playing for anyone other than Scotland.

Still talking factually about the personal opinions of people you have never met. Will you never learn.

[Satoshi]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

He was never playing for anyone other than Scotland.

It's always strange to me that people like McTominay choose Scotland ahead of England. Yes, he might feel Scottish, but realistically playing for England is worth millions extra in sponsorships, profile, will probably get you an increased club contract and virtually unlimited positive press coverage from a sycophantic media. Look at how the English media talked up deeply average players like Winks and Kalvin Phillips, McTomiany could be getting plenty of that.

You would have to feel very Scottish to leave millions of pounds on the table. Andye Murray lost millions when he said he wasn't supporting England at the World Cup, Tim Hermann would have maybe a lost a single after dinner event had he said the same about Scotland.

Not that England is top of the tree, to maximise your sponsorship income the first India or Chinese footballing superstar might as well write their own checks, whilst the US is still waiting their first global star.

For a mixture of sponsorship and success you would go for Brazil (by far the best national team ever), Germany or France. Italy, England and Spain probably a tier below that.

If Messi had been born in Andorra or Liechtenstein, they would still be shit. It's all about luck, get born in a populous country with football as the dominant sport and you're quids in sponsorship wise (even if you're vapid and/or a dick). 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Satoshi

[Clown Job]

34 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

It's always strange to me that people like McTominay choose Scotland ahead of England. Yes, he might feel Scottish

I don’t find that strange in the slightest 

[Satoshi]

Fair enough, I think most people would pretend not to be Scottish for a few years if they would make £5m for it.

I definitely would.

[The Moonster]

5 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Fair enough, I think most people would pretend not to be Scottish for a few years if they would make £5m for it.

I definitely would.

Scott McTominay would've been a millionaire at 21. Elite footballers don't really need to look at their career in the same way you do (FIRE etc). If he's grown up wearing Scotland tops and supporting us then making his family proud by representing us would be a no brainer. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, The Moonster said:

Scott McTominay would've been a millionaire at 21. Elite footballers don't really need to look at their career in the same way you do (FIRE etc). If he's grown up wearing Scotland tops and supporting us then making his family proud by representing us would be a no brainer. 

They will be aware also that careers can be ended by injury early. Or loss of form or any number of factors causing them to lose their status in the game. Money would definitely be a factor for some players. When deciding which country to play for.

Edited April 28, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Satoshi]

6 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Scott McTominay would've been a millionaire at 21. Elite footballers don't really need to look at their career in the same way you do (FIRE etc). If he's grown up wearing Scotland tops and supporting us then making his family proud by representing us would be a no brainer. 

I actually think it's a certainty he wouldn't have been a millionaire, he only really started playing regularly at 21 and signed a contract after that, he's still one of the lowest paid first team players at United (although now is surely a millionaire).

But crucially, rich people like money too. Just having some doesn't mean you don't want more.

As well as higher pay McTominay would get a much easier ride in the press / from the fans.

It's also clear that it wasn't pre destined, McTominay had no youth caps and was courted by both England and Scotland.

And where does it end? Scotland are a pretty decent nation closeby, what if Raheem Sterling thinks he's very Jamaican? Would he really give up a cushy, well paid post at England to travel around the world to play for a worse team? Leon Bailly hesitated and even now doesn't seem too bothered.

It's not limited to football of course, Johanna Konta has no British heritage and hadn't even been in the country before the age of 14. I'm not sure Sky Brown has ever been to the UK (maybe a short vacation at some time) but represented Britain in skateboarding. I'm not criticising these people, they are professionals and they follow the money. Richer associations in football and other sports will actively try and poach talents from others, like every other aspect of sport money talks now - far moreso that it did in the past.

5 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

They will be aware also that careers can be ended by injury early. Or loss of form or any number of factors causing them to lose their status in the game. Money would definitely be a factor for some players. When deciding which country to play for.

Indeed, and it's real credit to those who ignore the money and represent the smaller countries.

Karomoko Dembele is an excellent example, it's clear he isn't English in any sense (left there as a baby and grew up in Scotland) but it's hard to criticise him following the money when his career could easily derail.

And it's not just the money going to the player, England probably pay their U21 manager more than Steve Clarke. Richer associations will have huge backroom staff, top notch training and medical facilities. There isn't much drop off Man Utd to England, it's a bigger drop to Scotland (who are doing alright) and an entirely different world for these guys if you want to play for Jamaica or DRC.

C'est la vie, Scotland are mid ranking and will stay there, and in future we are more likely to lose talents to bigger associations.

[The Moonster]

5 hours ago, Satoshi said:

I actually think it's a certainty he wouldn't have been a millionaire, he only really started playing regularly at 21 and signed a contract after that, he's still one of the lowest paid first team players at United (although now is surely a millionaire).

But crucially, rich people like money too. Just having some doesn't mean you don't want more.

As well as higher pay McTominay would get a much easier ride in the press / from the fans.

It's also clear that it wasn't pre destined, McTominay had no youth caps and was courted by both England and Scotland.

And where does it end? Scotland are a pretty decent nation closeby, what if Raheem Sterling thinks he's very Jamaican? Would he really give up a cushy, well paid post at England to travel around the world to play for a worse team? Leon Bailly hesitated and even now doesn't seem too bothered.

It's not limited to football of course, Johanna Konta has no British heritage and hadn't even been in the country before the age of 14. I'm not sure Sky Brown has ever been to the UK (maybe a short vacation at some time) but represented Britain in skateboarding. I'm not criticising these people, they are professionals and they follow the money. Richer associations in football and other sports will actively try and poach talents from others, like every other aspect of sport money talks now - far moreso that it did in the past.

Indeed, and it's real credit to those who ignore the money and represent the smaller countries.

Karomoko Dembele is an excellent example, it's clear he isn't English in any sense (left there as a baby and grew up in Scotland) but it's hard to criticise him following the money when his career could easily derail.

And it's not just the money going to the player, England probably pay their U21 manager more than Steve Clarke. Richer associations will have huge backroom staff, top notch training and medical facilities. There isn't much drop off Man Utd to England, it's a bigger drop to Scotland (who are doing alright) and an entirely different world for these guys if you want to play for Jamaica or DRC.

C'est la vie, Scotland are mid ranking and will stay there, and in future we are more likely to lose talents to bigger associations.

Ok, a millionaire by 22 or 23. The point stands. Just because you view everything through stockpiling money doesn't mean everyone does, of course you can point to other people who have made financial decisions rather than personal ones, I'm not disputing that happens but I disagree most people would pretend they're a different nationality for extra money. 

What players have Scotland "lost" to other associations? The biggest one I can think of recently is Ali McCann going to NI. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, The Moonster said:

Ok, a millionaire by 22 or 23. The point stands. Just because you view everything through stockpiling money doesn't mean everyone does, of course you can point to other people who have made financial decisions rather than personal ones, I'm not disputing that happens but I disagree most people would pretend they're a different nationality for extra money. 

What players have Scotland "lost" to other associations? The biggest one I can think of recently is Ali McCann going to NI. 

They wouldn't have to pretend their a different nationality, they would qualify for the country they choose. Its not like they would have to put on an accent.

[Satoshi]

3 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Ok, a millionaire by 22 or 23. The point stands. Just because you view everything through stockpiling money doesn't mean everyone does, of course you can point to other people who have made financial decisions rather than personal ones, I'm not disputing that happens but I disagree most people would pretend they're a different nationality for extra money. 

What players have Scotland "lost" to other associations? The biggest one I can think of recently is Ali McCann going to NI. 

I certainly do not view everything through stockpiling money I'm sure I could make more money as a banker, lawyer or coder but these professions sound horrifically boring and/or evil. McTominay isn't being asked to do much for his £5m, just play for the country he is born in. If he had, I don't think anyone could really complain too much, England have had plenty of players with Scottish names before. If anything it's more of a surprise that Angus Gunn (whose dad played for Scotland) isn't more interested.

Also, I don't want to come across as criticising McTominay, quite the opposite, it's a ballsy brave decision on his part. It's probably that single mindedness that has helped him get as far as he has, he's a good player but is maximising what talent he has.

Scotland did lose McGeady, not for money - for far dafter reasons and might well lose Dembele. The latter clearly isn't English in any sense - but what can you do? It makes sense for him to go for it.

Also, it probably isn't the case for McTominay, but if you scoff and say footballers are millionaires and therefore don't need to care about money - it's well known there are players from poor backgrounds who are expected to support extended families - I know this is the case for Wesley but it will apply to many other players (usually from poorer countries). And, of course, plenty go bankrupt anyway.

It's more common outside football, Australia lost Konta to the UK even though she is as British as Andy Murray is Spanish. It would be naive to suggest this will never happen in football, and never to Scotland, of course it will. It's when not if and for me it's already gradually creeping in as the gap for poorer to richer associations grows wider.

Happened to England too when they lost Musiala.

In his case, nationality isn't binary (it isn't for many people) but there will be clear cut cases (like Dembele) when it would be virtually impossible for them to have any connection to a place they have no family from, and left aged 1.

[2426255]

It's a bit too mercenary for me when you start talking about financial or careerist motivations to represent a nation and so on. There has to be an actual connection to the nation or at the very least a willingness to want to learn about the nation. Impossible to regulate, so inevitably abused.

I wonder how long it will be before National teams are outdated as a concept. James McCarthy is one you could maybe add to that list @The Moonster.

Edited April 29, 2022 by 2426255

[Gordopolis]

Ross Stewart netting in the playoffs tonight.
Got a feeling he could be a late-blooming option for us.

[Gordopolis]

Rhodes just scored there in the playoffs semi. Still a long shot, but...