Israel lobby v Corbyn

[Detournement]

John Mann appointed government adviser on Anti Semitism.

He should just cross the floor. 

[Loondave1]

John Mann appointed government adviser on Anti Semitism.
He should just cross the floor. 

Witchfinder General

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/23/hodge-subject-of-formal-antisemitism-complaint-by-orthodox-jewish-labour-member/

 

Another one.

[Loondave1]

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/23/hodge-subject-of-formal-antisemitism-complaint-by-orthodox-jewish-labour-member/
 
Another one.

Will look forward to blanket coverage of this on the MSM..

[welshbairn]

Statement from Corbyn.

Quote

After nine years of cuts to our schools, police and councils, the country deserves better than Boris Johnson’s empty bluster.

The new prime minister’s priority is more tax giveaways for the richest and big businesses, not support for our public services.

The prime minister has no plan for Brexit and is staking everything on a sweetheart trade deal with Donald Trump which would risk the takeover of our NHS by US corporations.

A Labour government can stop Boris Johnson and bring an end to austerity, tackle the climate emergency and invest in our communities. We need a general election and a Labour government that works for the many, not the privileged jew.

Spoiler

Hang on, some mistake surely? Think I've been hacked.

 

[doulikefish]

Comrade wholfson has jacked in Labour over the anti "jezza hates the jews" to concentrate on her gmb job

[NotThePars]

eh?

[pandarilla]

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html


I'm posting this here to move the debate to the right thread - and I think this is a fascinating issue in itself.

There's been a big movement about the priveledge of white people in the last ten years or so, and trying to break that down and allow better opportunities from BAME individuals in all walks of life.

I generally agree with this process as people don't realise the historical importance about the conditions you find yourself born into, and the opportunities it brings you.

But in terms of anti Semitism the opposite seems to be true, in the sense that you're not allowed to mention the Jewish dominance in certain high end industries because you'll automatically be accused of anti-semitism through age-old tropes.

Surely there's a double standard here.

(Thanks to welshbairn for the link)

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html


I'm posting this here to move the debate to the right thread - and I think this is a fascinating issue in itself.

There's been a big movement about the priveledge of white people in the last ten years or so, and trying to break that down and allow better opportunities from BAME individuals in all walks of life.

I generally agree with this process as people don't realise the historical importance about the conditions you find yourself born into, and the opportunities it brings you.

But in terms of anti Semitism the opposite seems to be true, in the sense that you're not allowed to mention the Jewish dominance in certain high end industries because you'll automatically be accused of anti-semitism through age-old tropes.

Surely there's a double standard here.

(Thanks to welshbairn for the link)

It's the assumption that Jews in Hollywood must be working together on a secret agenda for global domination and a Greater Israel, rather than competing to make great shows and shit loads of money, that's paranoid and antisemitic. I hope you noticed that the article you linked was taking the pish.

Edited November 30, 2019 by welshbairn

[pandarilla]

It's the assumption that Jews in Hollywood must be working together on a secret agenda for global domination and a Greater Israel, rather than competing to make great shows and shit loads of money, that's paranoid and antisemitic. I hope you noticed that the article you linked was taking the pish.

Of course I did.

I'm talking about the dominance though - in a way that makes it very difficult to get into those incredibly powerful positions without those connections that come naturally in parts of the Jewish community.

That's generally not seen as an ok thing in society.

I read a book about Jon Stewart (daily show) being accused of racism by one of his writers and how he responded to it. He was initially incredibly hurt and defensive but then he realised it wasn't his decision making that was racist, it was the pool of talent that he picked from. All the links to writing comedy on his show came from certain comedy clubs and connections that were entirely dominated by white people. He cast his net further and found equally brilliant talent - and felt he'd learned something about our white privileged society.

That was about white v non white but the same applies to the Hollywood industry. You can't mention Jewish dominance without accusations of anti-semitism.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, MixuFixit said:

Dunno likes, was it not the case back in the 20s and 30s that Jewish folk couldn't get work easily due to prejudice and as Hollywood began to become a thing it was a new industry they could build from the ground up and so unsurprisingly more Jewish people ended up getting work as a result?

I guess what I'm saying is how far back do you have to study something in order to identify who is the group with the unfair advantage?

I remember back in the eighties someone did a survey of the top bods in the City and a huge percentage had Norman ancestry, from their names. Not sure what agenda they had.

[pandarilla]

Dunno likes, was it not the case back in the 20s and 30s that Jewish folk couldn't get work easily due to prejudice and as Hollywood began to become a thing it was a new industry they could build from the ground up and so unsurprisingly more Jewish people ended up getting work as a result?

I guess what I'm saying is how far back do you have to study something in order to identify who is the group with the unfair advantage?

That's a brilliant point.

In Scotland we teach (in our textbooks) that Jewish migrants looked after themselves in a way that was welcomed in Scotland - as they tended to be less reliant on state handouts or poor relief.

Jewish immigrants set-up arrangements to provide financial support and opportunities in Scotland for other, poorer Jews arriving from Eastern Europe.

[beefybake]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I remember back in the eighties someone did a survey of the top bods in the City and a huge percentage had Norman ancestry, from their names. Not sure what agenda they had.

Greed.

 

[pandarilla]

I remember back in the eighties someone did a survey of the top bods in the City and a huge percentage had Norman ancestry, from their names. Not sure what agenda they had.

A raping and a pillaging surely?

We don't seriously expect that the Vikings were the only c***s playing that particular game in the middle ages.

[pandarilla]

Greed.
 

And that's why the issue comes back to socialists, usually slightly misinformed, and arguing on the internet.

It's the wealth that people want to highlight and attack - but the Jewish right in Israel have orchestrated an incredible defence mechanism which also hooks in religion.

Stupid people wade in and get rightly called out for anti-semitic remarks - but I think it's a very different issue to other, more sinister versions of anti-semitism.

Chomsky is always a good source on this stuff.

[welshbairn]

43 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I'm talking about the dominance though - in a way that makes it very difficult to get into those incredibly powerful positions without those connections that come naturally in parts of the Jewish community.

That's generally not seen as an ok thing in society.

Nobody complains about the German domination of American brewing, or Swedes in Midwestern farming, or Irish Catholics in the police.(maybe they do about the last one) Things can just evolve that way without it being a bad thing or a conspiracy.

[pandarilla]

Nobody complains about the German domination of American brewing, or Swedes in Midwestern farming, or Irish Catholics in the police.(maybe they do about the last one) Things can just evolve that way without it being a bad thing or a conspiracy.

I'm certainly not advocating conspiracy - but I go back to the point about money and wealth.

That's where we, as a society, have to be able to question those in positions of power.

[Newbornbairn]

3 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

I'm talking about the dominance though - in a way that makes it very difficult to get into those incredibly powerful positions without those connections that come naturally in parts of the Jewish community.

 

Whit?

[dorlomin]

9 hours ago, pandarilla said:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html


I'm posting this here to move the debate to the right thread - and I think this is a fascinating issue in itself.

There's been a big movement about the priveledge of white people in the last ten years or so, and trying to break that down and allow better opportunities from BAME individuals in all walks of life.

I generally agree with this process as people don't realise the historical importance about the conditions you find yourself born into, and the opportunities it brings you.

But in terms of anti Semitism the opposite seems to be true, in the sense that you're not allowed to mention the Jewish dominance in certain high end industries because you'll automatically be accused of anti-semitism through age-old tropes.

Surely there's a double standard here.

(Thanks to welshbairn for the link)

"The Jews control the media" is very, very much an active part of current far right ideology and has been part of the rational behind numerous terrorist atrocities. It links into a theory called "the white genocide". 

 

Quote

The white genocide, white extinction,[1][2][3][4][5] or white replacement conspiracy theory[6][7][8] is a white supremacist[9][10][11][12] belief that there is a deliberate plot, often blamed on Jews,[9][12] to promote miscegenation, mass non-white immigration, racial integration, low fertility rates, abortion, governmental land-confiscation from whites, organised violence,[13] and eliminationism in supposedly white-founded countries[9] in order to cause the extinction of whites 

Quote

The term "white genocide" appeared sporadically in the American Nazi Party's White Power newspaper as early as 1972[67] and was used by the White Aryan Resistance[68] in the 1970s and 1980s, where it primarily referred to contraception and abortion. The conspiracy theory was developed by the neo-Nazi David Lane in his White Genocide Manifesto (c. 1995, origin of the later use of the term),[69][70][71][67] where he made the claim that the government policies of many Western countries had the intent of destroying white European culture and making white people an "extinct species".[72] Lane—a founding member of the organization The Order—criticized miscegenation, abortion, homosexuality, Jewish control of the media, "multi-racial sports," the legal repercussions against those who "resist genocide", and the "Zionist Occupation Government" that he said controls the United States and the other majority-white countries and which encourages "white genocide".[72][73]

Quote

Shortly after Lane's Manifesto, the Aryan Nations published their 1996 Declaration of Independence stating that the Zionist Occupation Government sought "the eradication of the white race and its culture" as "one of its foremost purposes." It accused such Jews of subverting the constitutional rule of law; responsibility for post-Civil War Reconstruction; subverting the monetary system with the Federal Reserve System, confiscating land and property; limiting freedoms of speech, religion, and gun ownership; murdering, kidnapping and imprisoning patriots; abdicating national sovereignty to the United Nations;

Limiting free speech is usually in terms of "political correctness", "liberal bias in the media <through Jew ownership>"  and so forth. 

Quote

While individual iterations of the conspiracy theory vary on who is assigned blame, Jewish influence, people who hate whites,^[82] and liberal political forces are commonly cited by white supremacists as being the main factors leading to a white genocide.^{[17][84][85][72]} This view is held by prominent figures such as David Duke, who cites Jews and "liberal political ideals" as the main causes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory#Neo-Nazis'_accusations_against_Jews

 

There is a lot to take in with those quotes. And it is not what you are saying. But this is a recurrent theme, Jewish control of finance, the media, law, politics etc. 

Take a look at Indian Americans (south Asia), Vietnamese American, Korean Americans, Japanese Americans and Chinese Americans. These are hugely successful groups who have prominent roles in business and technology. When an immigrant population tends to come from the educated middle classes, they tend to excel massively in their new country. The African Asians who arrived in the UK when expelled from Uganda and other countries in the 70s are a great example here in the UK. Compare with the 50s and 60s Pakistani immigrants who were generally recruited from a few regions (in Pakistani Kashmir) to work as low skill manual labourers. (Note the word generally before citing individual cases as exceptions). 

Central and eastern European Jews who got to America were from the educated classes (in general). Generally urban, generally literate. For the most part the peasants (who were by far the majority) stayed behind. I am sure you can work out why there are a lot less decedents of the peasant European Jews today. 

Jews were prominent in arts as they were skills easy transported (like jewellers). Until the arrival of film it was a pretty low status occupation for the most part. 

If you are American you might think the Chinese are all maths whizzes, the Indians all great computer programmers, the Jews all either finance, science or running Hollywood. The 2.6 or whatever billion people in India\China who are not going to Harvard and Yale do not feature much in the popular conscious, the same with the Jews who worked as labourers in Silesia or Ukraine. 

As an aside and to tie it into the "theme" of the thread (its not one I have much time for), the loudest proponents of the Israeli right in the US are often from the evangelical right. Of which those form Scots and Ulster Scots decent do feature prominently. 

This is a complex issue, one with many loaded assumptions on all sides. On this issue we are swimming in waters filled with sharks. 

[pandarilla]

I'm fully aware of the seriousness of the 'Jews controlling the media' trope, and I couldn't agree more that this is a minefield of complex issues.

 

Ultimately I guess my issue is just how much the internet left have been blamed for something that is much deeper - and generally more multi-faceted.

 

There's no balance to these continuous political attacks on the Labour party. Yes there are issues there to be scrutinized and dealt with accordingly but there's a political motive to this - and I don't think it's necessarily coming from Jews per se. I think it's coming from those politically opposed to Corbyn - in both main parties and their supporters in the media (again, not necessarily Jewish individuals).